[Morpheus]

Originally Posted by shifterboy45

-- no, but i did grow up in an era where there was a speed shop on every major corner, and i was within minutes from Lyons, Terminal Island and Irwindale Raceway -- if you can remember that far back -- of if they still stood, depending on when you were born.

all this talk -- is just that bench racing, nothing more. most guys here havent seen the internals of the engine, or know how to t/shoot a no start, rough running condition or stall at idle. how the hell are you supposed to understand what makes a car go if your just a parts-changer?

ive done this for a living for a while, and i always loved to hear from the guy that wants to go faster -- my question is if your on a budget, learn .. if money is no object (which is talked about constantly --value for this, price for that) spend till your hearts content.

yes??

I totally agree! Which is why, with the absence of failed engines, this is all just so much TALK.

I know you know this one-"Speed costs money. How fast do you want to go?"

[JB4-335]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

I posted this log of autotuning in action on 91 octane awhile back but didn't get any comments either.



Mike

Nice log. Looks great.

I think they only focus on negative over here Mike.

[ExpensiveTaste]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

I posted this log of autotuning in action on 91 octane awhile back but didn't get any comments either.



Mike

Mike, it looks to me like the JB4 is doing a pretty good job of indirectly keeping timing in check by managing boost and fuel trims. I think I remember Terry saying at one point that more power is to be had by running lower boost while maximizing the timing curve. Can you tell me how these "other" tunes are maximizing power output while retarding timing to keep the same targeted boost?

[Morpheus]

Originally Posted by ExpensiveTaste

Wow it took me 2 hours to get caught up in this thread, only to find out there were another 2 pages after I was done. And still, no new info that leads us to a new conclusion that all tunes don't ride the knock sensor in various conditions...This thread is obviously about how significant the "knock" events are that decrease timing and how often they happen. Please try and post factual data showing these two arguments against how well the ECU controls timing.

Do not try to bend the spoon — that's impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth: there is no spoon.

[ExpensiveTaste]

Originally Posted by Morpheus

Do not try to bend the spoon — that's impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth: there is no spoon.

Lol, I read this and immediately thought, "The Matrix". Then I looked at your SN and saw the name "Morpheus". LMAO...

[Litos]

Originally Posted by ExpensiveTaste

And still, no new info that leads us to a new conclusion that all tunes don't ride the knock sensor in various conditions...This thread is obviously about how significant the "knock" events are that decrease timing and how often they happen. Please try and post factual data showing these two arguments against how well the ECU controls timing.

all of this......

[shifterboy45]

Originally Posted by Morpheus

I totally agree! Which is why, with the absence of failed engines, this is all just so much TALK.

I know you know this one-"Speed costs money. How fast do you want to go?"

[shifterboy45]

Originally Posted by ExpensiveTaste

Lol, I read this and immediately thought, "The Matrix". Then I looked at your SN and saw the name "Morpheus". LMAO...

he also said ...

I can only show you the door, you must step through it!

[ZTUNER]

ignore

[ZTUNER]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

I posted this log of autotuning in action on 91 octane awhile back but didn't get any comments either.



Mike

So you are able to maintain 15 deg timing advance on virtually stock A/F and 15 psi on 91 oct? The Cobb tune is unable to maintain 5 deg timing at the same boost level and significantly richer mixture even on 93 oct. How is that possible ? I do see that your starting AIT's are HALF what i had. Might that explain the log ? not sure how but you are managing 60 F air temps post IC. What was your ambient ? 30 F ? if so will this log look the same at the normal 100 F ait we get around here ?

Harry

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by ExpensiveTaste

Mike, it looks to me like the JB4 is doing a pretty good job of indirectly keeping timing in check by managing boost and fuel trims. I think I remember Terry saying at one point that more power is to be had by running lower boost while maximizing the timing curve. Can you tell me how these "other" tunes are maximizing power output while retarding timing to keep the same targeted boost?

Another 91 octane log from another car, this one testing the 2/21 algorithm. Overall the revisions are making map 5 more stable and closer to becoming the preferred JB4 map to use. Feedback has been very positive from customers. Remember the average JB customer installs and enjoys their car. I have customers out there still running JB3 1.1 for the past few years. This system is much superior to the old system of customers picking overly aggressive maps and running them for years at a time. But even that flawed system resulted in no more motor failures than we've seen on the PROcede...

[Litos]

mike, if i have my JB4 uninstalled and sitting in my front seat of my car waiting for re-install tomorrow, can i just hook up the USB to it and upload the new updates.

freakin clueless on what i'm doing so i'm requesting world class BMS support

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by ZTUNER

So you are able to maintain 15 deg timing advance on virtually stock A/F and 15 psi on 91 oct? The Cobb tune is unable to maintain 5 deg timing at the same boost level and significantly richer mixture even on 93 oct. How is that possible ? I do see that your starting AIT's are HALF what i had. Might that explain the log ? not sure how but you are managing 60 F air temps post IC. What was your ambient ? 30 F ? if so will this log look the same at the normal 100 F ait we get around here ?

Harry

Here is one of those runs with AFR on it. He's running around 11.5:1AFR which is substantially richer than stock. Remember the JB4 uses absolute boost targets. As IAT and air density increases the target stays the same, so you make less power, but can then safely get away with more advance. The problem flash tuners are having now IMHO is dealing with the OEM logic that raises boost when IATs rocket up and lower them when IAT goes stone cold, which is the complete opposite of what you'd want in performance tuning and this log is the perfect example. He can run 15psi in cold weather but if he tried to keep this power level in hot weather he'd be looking at 17psi+ and a very unhappy motor. Also as temperatures increase the JB4 map 5 will pickup more drop outs and tune itself down accordingly. Down to close to the stock curve if needed to keep the motor happy.

Mike

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by Litos

mike, if i have my JB4 uninstalled and sitting in my front seat of my car waiting for re-install tomorrow, can i just hook up the USB to it and upload the new updates.

freakin clueless on what i'm doing so i'm requesting world class BMS support

For any support item you really need to email BMS. I try to help on the forums when possible but I stick to general questions and answers. For specific questions about your car do yourself a favor and email them.

In this case, I can help. It has to be powered on to update firmware. Route the USB cable outside the ECU box in the engine bay to do future updates in seconds. Most leave it under the black plastic cover to keep it hidden from sight.

Mike

[boom]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

What jackass did this to his car?? Is that just repeated WOT for the same gear? Was he trying to kill it?

[Move.Over]

Originally Posted by boom

What jackass did this to his car?? Is that just repeated WOT for the same gear? Was he trying to kill it?

Not real time, option on JB4 to only show WOT, so it drops anything in between. Like many of the graphs posted by Mike he doesn't disclose what you are looking. Like ambient etc. One of the graphs shown was done at 40F.

[ExpensiveTaste]

Originally Posted by boom

What jackass did this to his car?? Is that just repeated WOT for the same gear? Was he trying to kill it?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it can't be the same gear because he changes from high to low RPM in such a short period of time. If it was the same gear, wouldn't it take time to lose some speed before starting at a lower RPM again? You can see two spots where he maintained RPM, probably slowing down.

Edit, didn't know about the WOT only logging, but what about the areas of relatively no RPM change?

[Bagelfast]

The user who did that log, use the option to put all his WOT runs together on one log. BMS hasnt put the seperator in yet, its on there list to do as i was reading.

[Clap135]

sorry, busy day at work.

AS for the guy who posted the 2-3 log, logs that short mean nothing. Also realize then your timing in 2nd vs 3rd is vastly different. Only way to lower timing if you have no control of it is to knock. Your car knocked down to that level, and soon will attempt to raise timing again. Have fun with that.


AS for MIKEY

Looks liek autotuning isnt doing jack shit.

[ExpensiveTaste]

Originally Posted by Clap135

sorry, busy day at work.

AS for the guy who posted the 2-3 log, logs that short mean nothing. Also realize then your timing in 2nd vs 3rd is vastly different. Only way to lower timing if you have no control of it is to knock. Your car knocked down to that level, and soon will attempt to raise timing again. Have fun with that.


AS for MIKEY



Looks liek autotuning isnt doing jack shit.

Lol, the only way to know that timing needs to be retarded is through knock...unless you can somehow forecast the future. Do you have the spidy sense?...Tell me where I can get one.

[Clap135]

Originally Posted by ExpensiveTaste

Lol, the only way to know that timing needs to be retarded is through knock...unless you can somehow forecast the future. Do you have the spidy sense?...Tell me where I can get one.

Add race gas to that car, and timing will never fall below 10 degrees at the same boost.

[Clap135]

people should notice what happened on the 2 logs that show the 3-4 shift on that log. Notice what happens as boost goes down, the initial timing the car wants to run goes up, and what does that cause? KNOCK again. Greaty system they got going on there.