[Humdizzle]

nice to see GM putting more effort out there to stop flippers. Idk how well it will be enforced though.

imagine buying a 150k z06 and then your company tanks, wife gets pregnant, natural disaster.... and you need to offload it. but nobody wants your car because they'll be blacklisted with no warranty. lmao

[AlexFL]

Originally Posted by Humdizzle

nice to see GM putting more effort out there to stop flippers. Idk how well it will be enforced though.

imagine buying a 150k z06 and then your company tanks, wife gets pregnant, natural disaster.... and you need to offload it. but nobody wants your car because they'll be blacklisted with no warranty. lmao

Give them my phone number. If the color is right, I'll take it without warranty, lol.

[M3WC]

Originally Posted by Humdizzle

nice to see GM putting more effort out there to stop flippers. Idk how well it will be enforced though.

imagine buying a 150k z06 and then your company tanks, wife gets pregnant, natural disaster.... and you need to offload it. but nobody wants your car because they'll be blacklisted with no warranty. lmao

That is why this letter says "unauthorized dealers". In the scenarios you listed, you will still be able to sell back to a GM dealer and the vehicle will retain the warranty.

If this is truly enforced, this will stop the flippers that have multiple orders from multiple dealerships. With zero intentions of owning the vehicles.

[M3WC]

Originally Posted by dgoldenz

GM just sent out a letter to dealers telling them that if customers resell a Z06, Hummer EV, or Escalade-V in the first 12 months, the warranty will become invalid. Sounds pretty illegal to me but I'm just an idiot on the internet.

Not illegal at all. They will have a sound legal document to sign when you head into finance to finish paperwork.

This really is no different than how most brands now won't let people sell their leased cars to third parties. They want the inventory back on their own lots. Or how Ford had GT owners sign a no-sale agreement for first 2 years of ownership. Just another version to fight flipping vehicles. Get the vehicles into owners hands that actually want them and not to make a quick buck.

Porsche needs to do something like this with their GT-line.

[Humdizzle]

Originally Posted by M3WC

That is why this letter says "unauthorized dealers". In the scenarios you listed, you will still be able to sell back to a GM dealer and the vehicle will retain the warranty.

If this is truly enforced, this will stop the flippers that have multiple orders from multiple dealerships. With zero intentions of owning the vehicles.

gotcha that makes more sense.

some porsche dealerships do this too. they'll make you sign an agreement for GT cars saying you have to sell it back to them when you're done with it.

[dgoldenz]

Originally Posted by M3WC

Not illegal at all. They will have a sound legal document to sign when you head into finance to finish paperwork.

This really is no different than how most brands now won't let people sell their leased cars to third parties. They want the inventory back on their own lots. Or how Ford had GT owners sign a no-sale agreement for first 2 years of ownership. Just another version to fight flipping vehicles. Get the vehicles into owners hands that actually want them and not to make a quick buck.

Porsche needs to do something like this with their GT-line.

You can't enforce an illegal contract. I am not a lawyer, but I believe the US requires manufactures to offer a minimum of a 3-year warranty on any new car sold, and that warranty transfers to all future buyers. The letter says "certain warranties" so IMO the only thing they can reduce is the 5-year/60k powertrain down to 3/36.

I can almost guarantee you there will be a class action lawsuit against GM if they try to limit the 3/36 warranty for second owners. What about an owner that transfers the car into an LLC or a trust? Is that now a blacklisted car because the original owner doesn't own it anymore despite the original buyer still being the "owner"/driver of the car? How will they know you transferred it into an LLC or trust that you own versus one that someone else owns?

Just because you sign an agreement doesn't make it legal. You think corporations with an army of lawyers have never done anything illegal before? lol. The lawyers are probably licking their chops waiting for details...

[G MONEY]

The balls of Chevy. Lol. Fucking clowns. Blacklist me. I don't want any of their other shit vehicles anyway.

[M3WC]

Originally Posted by dgoldenz

You can't enforce an illegal contract. I am not a lawyer, but I believe the US requires manufactures to offer a minimum of a 3-year warranty on any new car sold, and that warranty transfers to all future buyers. The letter says "certain warranties" so IMO the only thing they can reduce is the 5-year/60k powertrain down to 3/36.

I can almost guarantee you there will be a class action lawsuit against GM if they try to limit the 3/36 warranty for second owners. What about an owner that transfers the car into an LLC or a trust? Is that now a blacklisted car because the original owner doesn't own it anymore despite the original buyer still being the "owner"/driver of the car? How will they know you transferred it into an LLC or trust that you own versus one that someone else owns?

Just because you sign an agreement doesn't make it legal. You think corporations with an army of lawyers have never done anything illegal before? lol. The lawyers are probably licking their chops waiting for details...

It isn't illegal. We are dealing with "Limited" warranties. GM can change the stipulations of any of their limited warranties how they like. If a car company wants to limit their limited warranties to original owner period, they can do that. All it needs is to be clearly stated in warranty booklets. In case of switching to LLC that would be considered a second owner. Choose another vehicle if don't like their limited warranty policy. I know of no federal laws relating to offering warranties to subsequent owners, except for warranties relating to emission equipment.

Really no different than when BMW changed their CPO limited warranty policy back in 2014. CPO vehicles sold to "non-authorized" dealers the CPO warranty became void. All they had to do was change the wording in the warranty documents.

[Mike00]

Originally Posted by M3WC

It isn't illegal. We are dealing with "Limited" warranties. GM can change the stipulations of any of their limited warranties how they like. If a car company wants to limit their limited warranties to original owner period, they can do that. All it needs is to be clearly stated in warranty booklets. In case of switching to LLC that would be considered a second owner. Choose another vehicle if don't like their limited warranty policy. I know of no federal laws relating to offering warranties to subsequent owners, except for warranties relating to emission equipment.

Really no different than when BMW changed their CPO limited warranty policy back in 2014. CPO vehicles sold to "non-authorized" dealers the CPO warranty became void. All they had to do was change the wording in the warranty documents.

The point he is trying to make is that just because it’s in a contract doesn’t make it binding. This is particularly true when you have contracts between corporations and consumers. The essential idea is that to his point - you can’t put something illegal in contracts - and in a number of cases unethical additions to contracts have also been tossed - the idea being to protect the consumer from being taken advantage of.

They might be able ot limit some warranty impacts and a few others but I agree there is likely to be a lawsuit on this if they try and toss the warranty all together - hard to see how it would hold up in court.

[M3WC]

Originally Posted by Mike00

The point he is trying to make is that just because it’s in a contract doesn’t make it binding. This is particularly true when you have contracts between corporations and consumers. The essential idea is that to his point - you can’t put something illegal in contracts - and in a number of cases unethical additions to contracts have also been tossed - the idea being to protect the consumer from being taken advantage of.

They might be able ot limit some warranty impacts and a few others but I agree there is likely to be a lawsuit on this if they try and toss the warranty all together - hard to see how it would hold up in court.

All they have to do is change the wording of the limited warranty. They don't even need to have you sign a contract.

If any brand wants to change their limited new car warranties to original owner only, they can do that legally. As long as its clearly stated in warranty policy when buying the car. Might not be good for business, but it is well within their rights.

No different than BMW putting stipulations in limited warranty about tuning your ecu. Owners on this very forum have had their cars flagged and warranty denied. Wording about modifying your vehicle is clearly stated in the warranty.

[dgoldenz]

Sorry but I think you are wrong. Consumer protections exist for a reason. Is Apple going to start voiding warranties for people who sell their iPhones after a month? Why does every manufacturer offer a minimum of a 3 year warranty? I have never heard of a 1 or 2 year warranty for any new car. If companies start doing this more states will add new laws to prevent this from happening, I guarantee it. All it does it allow the manufacturer to absolve themselves of the money they’d normally lose on valid warranty claims.

Modifying your car is very different than selling your car. No manufacturer has ever terminated a warranty for selling your own property as far as I have ever heard of. I don’t know why some people are cheerleading this. You want car companies to have more control over your own property? Did you not just pay $150k for one of these things? This is such a bad look for GM when they’ve done nothing at all to enforce MSRP pricing. Our dealers can make $100k extra but if you sell your car at a $30k loss in 11 months you’re out of luck. Sorry guys! No more GM for you and your buyer’s warranty is now void.

[Mike00]

Originally Posted by M3WC

All they have to do is change the wording of the limited warranty. They don't even need to have you sign a contract.

If any brand wants to change their limited new car warranties to original owner only, they can do that legally. As long as its clearly stated in warranty policy when buying the car. Might not be good for business, but it is well within their rights.

No different than BMW putting stipulations in limited warranty about tuning your ecu. Owners on this very forum have had their cars flagged and warranty denied. Wording about modifying your vehicle is clearly stated in the warranty.

As I said it’s not that simple. There are also certain requirements around new vehicles and warranties.

And even on the aftermarket mods they have to prove that caused it. Granted ECU changes puts you in a tough place but they can’t void your warranty on say the suspension.

Anyway the nuances come down to consumer protection laws. My gut says they won’t be able to void the warranty 100% but only the courts will decide that.

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by Humdizzle

nice to see GM putting more effort out there to stop flippers. Idk how well it will be enforced though.

imagine buying a 150k z06 and then your company tanks, wife gets pregnant, natural disaster.... and you need to offload it. but nobody wants your car because they'll be blacklisted with no warranty. lmao

Actually, people will want it. Remember people are complaining about a 106k MSRP supercar because they thought it'd be 92k so they get mad and say, "you know what? 106k is too much, i don't want the car. Instead i'll go pay 160 for an 8 year old (exotic) with no warranty, and 30k miles because if i can't have GM's first supercar at 92k i'll pay almost double for a used old supercar!"

You wanna hear something else that's crazy? On the corvette forum, all of them were bitching about the price that i guess they felt the need to state it publicly as if they think GM is reading and they'll care at all about some randoms complaining about a 106k MSRP that they said they're getting off the list.

2 weeks later. NOT A SINGLE person has got off the z06 list, at least within a worthy position. So that means they're full of shit and they're still going to get the car.

Another thing that's crazy. Those same people bitching about the price, and the same people whining saying they're getting off the list has just made posts about what their "build" looks like, and they can't wait for GM to accept the worksheet order.

Everyone wants this car and this will continue until there's no more production of the car, period.

This is what happens when GM releases their first supercar. And the ERAY didn't even come out yet which is going to appeal to a broader audience.

And then wait until they announce the ZR1.

Gotta love corvettes these days

[dgoldenz]

Lawsuits incoming…


A GM spokesperson gave the following details to Jalopnik:

For Corvette Z06 and Escalade-V, if ownership of the vehicle is transferred from the original owner within the first 12 months of delivery, the Bumper-to-Bumper, Powertrain, Sheet Metal, Tire and Accessory coverages will be voided.

For HUMMER EV, if ownership of the vehicle is transferred from the original owner within the first 12 months of delivery, the Bumper-to-Bumper, Electric Vehicle Propulsion, Sheet Metal, Tire and Accessory coverages under GM’s New Vehicle Limited Warranty will be voided. The Battery Warranty Coverage will not be affected for HUMMER EV.

[Higgs Boson]

Originally Posted by dgoldenz

Lawsuits incoming…


A GM spokesperson gave the following details to Jalopnik:

For Corvette Z06 and Escalade-V, if ownership of the vehicle is transferred from the original owner within the first 12 months of delivery, the Bumper-to-Bumper, Powertrain, Sheet Metal, Tire and Accessory coverages will be voided.

For HUMMER EV, if ownership of the vehicle is transferred from the original owner within the first 12 months of delivery, the Bumper-to-Bumper, Electric Vehicle Propulsion, Sheet Metal, Tire and Accessory coverages under GM’s New Vehicle Limited Warranty will be voided. The Battery Warranty Coverage will not be affected for HUMMER EV.

I am sure this will be on a case by case basis depending on circumstances just like flagging a powertrain warranty, it doesn't always happen but it could happen.

There will be exceptions.

If you have a policy, you can back off your policy as needed. If you don't have a policy, well then.....

[dgoldenz]

Originally Posted by Higgs Boson

I am sure this will be on a case by case basis depending on circumstances just like flagging a powertrain warranty, it doesn't always happen but it could happen.

There will be exceptions.

If you have a policy, you can back off your policy as needed. If you don't have a policy, well then.....

You think GM is going to evaluate this on a case by case basis instead of having a blanket policy? lol. That’s even better grounds for a discrimination lawsuit. They will have one policy for everyone. You either sold the car within 12 months or not, there will be no in between.

[BGM-M3COMP]

I highly doubt they can ever enforce that.

What happens if someone loses their job? Or someone passes away and needs extra money? They're moving out of state and have no need for a car? They don't want the car anymore for various reasons?

Either way all this is making me even more excited about getting mine. I don't want to flip it. I want to bask in the beauty of the car and engineering.

And they don't specify stingray models. Which means i can always flip mine since my stingray will come before the z06 lol

I'll probably use the stingray for a year, and sell it and pocket 15-25k. Maybe even more.

Gotta love corvettes.

[Higgs Boson]

Originally Posted by dgoldenz

You think GM is going to evaluate this on a case by case basis instead of having a blanket policy? lol. That’s even better grounds for a discrimination lawsuit. They will have one policy for everyone. You either sold the car within 12 months or not, there will be no in between.

Actually this is not what I said.

[M3WC]

Originally Posted by dgoldenz

Lawsuits incoming…


A GM spokesperson gave the following details to Jalopnik:

For Corvette Z06 and Escalade-V, if ownership of the vehicle is transferred from the original owner within the first 12 months of delivery, the Bumper-to-Bumper, Powertrain, Sheet Metal, Tire and Accessory coverages will be voided.

For HUMMER EV, if ownership of the vehicle is transferred from the original owner within the first 12 months of delivery, the Bumper-to-Bumper, Electric Vehicle Propulsion, Sheet Metal, Tire and Accessory coverages under GM’s New Vehicle Limited Warranty will be voided. The Battery Warranty Coverage will not be affected for HUMMER EV.

There is no law requiring GM to transfer their limited warranties to subsequent owners. Period. People can waist their money with lawsuits. Magnuson-Moss law actually clearly defends GM in this situation. Limited warranties are just that, limited to what is stated in the each policy at the time of purchase. All the warranties listed above are "limited" and by law can be written to the companies discretion. In fact brands can sell vehicles with no written warranties per Magnuson-Moss, except emissions(the only warranty demanded by law). Notice how they didn't list the emission warranty for cancellation, because they can't by law.

Referring to the Magnuson-Moss, the Federal Act only requires warranties to be written in clear and easy-to-understand language and terms. If GM writes their Limited Warranties in "clear and easy-to-understand language and terms", it will be rock solid.

You may not like what they are doing, but it is completely legal.

[M3WC]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

What happens if someone loses their job? Or someone passes away and needs extra money? They're moving out of state and have no need for a car? They don't want the car anymore for various reasons?

In those situations the vehicle can be sold to an authorized dealer and still retain the warranty. Or you can still sell it third party, even though the warranty will not transfer to next owner.

Also "authorized" dealer does not always mean only GM dealers. As of last year GM stopped leasee from being able to sell their leased GM vehicles to third parties. But you can still technically sell it to other brand dealers as long as they have GM dealer in their network...like Autonation, Sonic, Penske, etc.

There is many options for people in situations like you mentioned. If customer is not comfortable with the terms of the limited warranties, they can also not purchase the vehicle.

[dgoldenz]

Originally Posted by M3WC

In those situations the vehicle can be sold to an authorized dealer and still retain the warranty. Or you can still sell it third party, even though the warranty will not transfer to next owner.

Also "authorized" dealer does not always mean only GM dealers. As of last year GM stopped leasee from being able to sell their leased GM vehicles to third parties. But you can still technically sell it to other brand dealers as long as they have GM dealer in their network...like Autonation, Sonic, Penske, etc.

There is many options for people in situations like you mentioned. If customer is not comfortable with the terms of the limited warranties, they can also not purchase the vehicle.

Nothing in GM's statement says anything about keeping warranty if a used Z06 is sold by a dealer in the first 12 months. Is that possible? Yes, but they haven't said anything about it.

GM has power over leased cars because they own the car, not the person leasing it.

Originally Posted by M3WC

There is no law requiring GM to transfer their limited warranties to subsequent owners. Period. People can waist their money with lawsuits. Magnuson-Moss law actually clearly defends GM in this situation. Limited warranties are just that, limited to what is stated in the each policy at the time of purchase. All the warranties listed above are "limited" and by law can be written to the companies discretion. In fact brands can sell vehicles with no written warranties per Magnuson-Moss, except emissions(the only warranty demanded by law). Notice how they didn't list the emission warranty for cancellation, because they can't by law.

Referring to the Magnuson-Moss, the Federal Act only requires warranties to be written in clear and easy-to-understand language and terms. If GM writes their Limited Warranties in "clear and easy-to-understand language and terms", it will be rock solid.

You may not like what they are doing, but it is completely legal.

GM is attempting to have a separate set of rules based on the transfer of private property that they do not own. The car is sold with a warranty. Removing that warranty on the basis of the transfer of private property will be challenged by both private citizens and state governments under consumer protection laws considering this only hurts the buyer and subsequent owners while allowing GM to limit their expenses for claims that should be covered by the warranty. Nobody knows who will win because it's an unprecedented case.

Removing the warranty from any consumer good based on the transfer of property seems extremely bad as other manufactures are more likely to follow if GM prevails. Next thing you know every used car will have no warranty if it's not purchased CPO from a dealer. Does that sound like a good thing for anyone except the dealer? Because that's a very realistic implication if GM wins.

If there is no used market for the car because it has no warranty, that means dealers can pump up the price of new cars and CPO cars even more since they will have no competition. Something that is intended to "help" the consumer attain a car affordably is creating a scenario that does the exact opposite.

[M3WC]

Originally Posted by dgoldenz

Nothing in GM's statement says anything about keeping warranty if a used Z06 is sold by a dealer in the first 12 months. Is that possible? Yes, but they haven't said anything about it.

That is why the original communication has "unauthorized dealers" in it. They want those early resold vehicles back into the dealer network.

Originally Posted by dgoldenz

GM is attempting to have a separate set of rules based on the transfer of private property that they do not own. The car is sold with a warranty. Removing that warranty on the basis of the transfer of private property will be challenged by both private citizens and state governments under consumer protection laws considering this only hurts the buyer and subsequent owners while allowing GM to limit their expenses for claims that should be covered by the warranty. Nobody knows who will win because it's an unprecedented case.

You are making up Limited warranty requirements that do not exist by law. You are right the car is sold with a warranty, a Limited warranty written how GM seems fit. There are no laws being broken to base a lawsuit on. I will say it again. Maguson-Moss Act clearly states businesses are not even required to have a written warranty at all. If a limited warranty is provided it has to be a single, clear, and easy-to-read document. That is it, cut and dry. Nothing requires GM to provide a warranty to transfer.

There is simply zero laws requiring businesses to write their Limited warranties in any certain way, except for being "a single, clear, and easy-to-read document" provided at the time of purchase.

Originally Posted by dgoldenz

Removing the warranty from any consumer good based on the transfer of property seems extremely bad as other manufactures are more likely to follow if GM prevails. Next thing you know every used car will have no warranty if it's not purchased CPO from a dealer. Does that sound like a good thing for anyone except the dealer? Because that's a very realistic implication if GM wins.

I don't see this scenario happening. I only see this being done with highly desirably models. GM would not attempt this on their lower end econobox vehicles, when the competition down the street are offering 3/36 or even 5/50 warranties. Some brand or brands will always offer warranties to compete and get ahead. These specialized models will sell regardless.