[houtan]

Originally Posted by MiamiM3

I run E50 blend with just a PTF flash with no issues on stock lpfp and stock turbo. I think Dzenno didnt push the limits with my tune. The tune is solid, no misfires. Before the E50 tune, I was running a PTF 91 octane tune and I had a lot of low rpm misfires during summer.

You are the first person I have heard of running E50 with no issues on flash only. As Robert mentioned, please post additional information about your setup as well as some logs. Would also be good to know how you drive your car. Do you punch it to redline at least once or twice a drive or do more cruising around. For me, driving on all the ethanol tunes was perfect around town, but issues would come up after a day on full throttle pulls.

I was browsing another thread and saw another member (olivojoe) mention running E50 without issue. Sent him a PM to see if he can post an update. http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...1182565&page=2

[MiamiM3]

I have a 2011 335i 6AT with PTF E50 tune, ETS 5" FMIC, ER CP, stock turbo, stock lpfp and Alpina TCU tune. I told Dzenno that I wanted the E50 tune, but I did not want to upgrade my LPFP because I am still under CPO warranty. The datalogs were made with a tank full of 91/E85=E50. The horrible California 91 octane drove me to the E50 tune.

This is before Dzenno made adjustments for STFT:

http://www.datazap.me/u/miamim3/log-...og=1&data=4-15

http://www.datazap.me/u/miamim3/log-...og=0&data=4-15


This is after Dzenno made adjustments for STFT:

http://www.datazap.me/u/miamim3/log-...og=0&data=4-15

[DrRobert]

Originally Posted by MiamiM3

I have a 2011 335i 6AT with PTF E50 tune, ETS 5" FMIC, ER CP, stock turbo, stock lpfp and Alpina TCU tune. I told Dzenno that I wanted the E50 tune, but I did not want to upgrade my LPFP because I am still under CPO warranty. The datalogs were made with a tank full of 91/E85=E50. The horrible California 91 octane drove me to the E50 tune.

This is before Dzenno made adjustments for STFT:

http://www.datazap.me/u/miamim3/log-...og=1&data=4-15

http://www.datazap.me/u/miamim3/log-...og=0&data=4-15


This is after Dzenno made adjustments for STFT:

http://www.datazap.me/u/miamim3/log-...og=0&data=4-15

Thank you for posting that MiamiM3! So is that last log your final tune? Looks like max boost was 18 PSI. Houtan, how does that compare to your logs when you were having misfires on PTF tune?

[houtan]

Originally Posted by MiamiM3

I have a 2011 335i 6AT with PTF E50 tune, ETS 5" FMIC, ER CP, stock turbo, stock lpfp and Alpina TCU tune. I told Dzenno that I wanted the E50 tune, but I did not want to upgrade my LPFP because I am still under CPO warranty. The datalogs were made with a tank full of 91/E85=E50. The horrible California 91 octane drove me to the E50 tune.

This is before Dzenno made adjustments for STFT:

http://www.datazap.me/u/miamim3/log-...og=1&data=4-15

http://www.datazap.me/u/miamim3/log-...og=0&data=4-15


This is after Dzenno made adjustments for STFT:

http://www.datazap.me/u/miamim3/log-...og=0&data=4-15

Thanks for posting. Logs look clean overall.

I don't see timing advance in the logs, which is important to see how much timing you are running. Can you please tell us what the ignition advance is?

Can you share how long you have been running with this E50 tune? Have you tried to do WOT pulls from 1-3, or 2-4, or something else? Also, any reason why your pulls are not going to redline?

Sorry for all of the questions, but just trying to gauge what scenarios your car has been subjected to so we can understand if you have not experienced any misfires under similar scenarios where we have. I can get a clean 3rd gear pull, but the second I blast through the gears misfires crop up.

[houtan]

Originally Posted by DrRobert

Thank you for posting that MiamiM3! So is that last log your final tune? Looks like max boost was 18 PSI. Houtan, how does that compare to your logs when you were having misfires on PTF tune?

I am waiting for Dzenno to get back to test a new ethanol tune. Below is a link to my current 91 octane tune (only the first of the three logs). I know the ethanol tune will run the same boost, just more timing (6 degrees for 91 vs probably 8-10 degrees on Ethanol).

The important thing to know with Miami's log is what his timing his. In terms of boost, his particular E50 tune is running less boost than my 91 tune, so I am thinking the timing should be higher. Obviously his log is cleaner with less timing corrections (but even my 91 tune is very clean) which is a good benefit of ethanol and why I would still like to run it.

http://datazap.me/u/houtan/91-octane...log=0&data=1-8

Another thing I always do once my tune is final is turn traction control completely off and mash the throttle from a standstill to make sure the car is running as it's supposed to. Major tire spin in the first couple gears so you definitely need to be comfortable and careful with the rear end moving around. If I don't want to be super focused, I will do the same but from a 2nd gear roll and just let the car shift into 3rd to make sure the tune is working properly in all scenarios. here are some logs of testing my 91 octane tune:

http://datazap.me/u/houtan/ptf-stg2-...log=0&data=1-8

[RVAN]

Originally Posted by DrRobert

Had to postpone the E30 dyno last week due to misfires at high RPMs. Car runs great most of the time but still a little unpredictable when I stomp on it. Might have to wait til January to finish the tune at this point.

Sounds like the rest of us. Full throttle top of the rev range get fuel cuts and a hard limp.

Not sure if E50 will work as this has been going on for five months now.

Almost wish I had stuck with an N54 platform as the walnut blasting con is more than made up for with a much more robust tune.

Never had any issues actually tuning my N54.

[MiamiM3]

Originally Posted by houtan

I am waiting for Dzenno to get back to test a new ethanol tune. Below is a link to my current 91 octane tune (only the first of the three logs). I know the ethanol tune will run the same boost, just more timing (6 degrees for 91 vs probably 8-10 degrees on Ethanol).

The important thing to know with Miami's log is what his timing his. In terms of boost, his particular E50 tune is running less boost than my 91 tune, so I am thinking the timing should be higher. Obviously his log is cleaner with less timing corrections (but even my 91 tune is very clean) which is a good benefit of ethanol and why I would still like to run it.

http://datazap.me/u/houtan/91-octane...log=0&data=1-8

Another thing I always do once my tune is final is turn traction control completely off and mash the throttle from a standstill to make sure the car is running as it's supposed to. Major tire spin in the first couple gears so you definitely need to be comfortable and careful with the rear end moving around. If I don't want to be super focused, I will do the same but from a 2nd gear roll and just let the car shift into 3rd to make sure the tune is working properly in all scenarios. here are some logs of testing my 91 octane tune:

http://datazap.me/u/houtan/ptf-stg2-...log=0&data=1-8

The E50 tune is completely solid, I can hammer the car any gear at anytime without one CEL light or misfire.

These are my very first datalogs on the PTF E50 tune:

http://www.datazap.me/u/miamim3/log-...0&data=4-15-18

http://www.datazap.me/u/miamim3/log-...1&data=4-15-18

http://www.datazap.me/u/miamim3/log-...2&data=4-15-18

http://www.datazap.me/u/miamim3/log-...0&data=4-15-18


I have no doubt that Dzenno could produce a lot more clean power with this E50 tune if I upgrade my LPFP.

[MiamiM3]

Originally Posted by houtan

Thanks for posting. Logs look clean overall.

I don't see timing advance in the logs, which is important to see how much timing you are running. Can you please tell us what the ignition advance is?

Can you share how long you have been running with this E50 tune? Have you tried to do WOT pulls from 1-3, or 2-4, or something else? Also, any reason why your pulls are not going to redline?

Sorry for all of the questions, but just trying to gauge what scenarios your car has been subjected to so we can understand if you have not experienced any misfires under similar scenarios where we have. I can get a clean 3rd gear pull, but the second I blast through the gears misfires crop up.

I have been running the PTF E50 tune for a couple of months with no issues at all.

I can hammer the car in any gear at anytime with zero issues,

I do not go to redline because there is no point, the stock turbo runs out of breath well before 7000 rpms.

The other reason is that PTF specifies the following for datalogs:

Shift the car into 3rd gear and while holding steady around 2800rpm, start the datalog on your Cobb AccessPort, hit the accelerator pedal and go Wide Open Throttle to about 6500rpm and let off the accelerator pedal.

[CantCatchMe]

The issue with hard limps like I was getting on the Wedge E50 tune was caused by actual load meeting requesting load. That's the biggest issue that protunes have it seems. I should have just gotten the E40 map and tried it from there. I won't be messing with E85 till March, but those hard limps suck terribly. I hope most of you who have that issue get it fixed eventually by the tuner.

[houtan]

Originally Posted by MiamiM3

I have been running the PTF E50 tune for a couple of months with no issues at all.

I can hammer the car in any gear at anytime with zero issues,

I do not go to redline because there is no point, the stock turbo runs out of breath well before 7000 rpms.

The other reason is that PTF specifies the following for datalogs:

Shift the car into 3rd gear and while holding steady around 2800rpm, start the datalog on your Cobb AccessPort, hit the accelerator pedal and go Wide Open Throttle to about 6500rpm and let off the accelerator pedal.

Thanks for posting the logs, they look solid. Hopefully he can figure out why misfires happen for some of us. I have tested more than 30 ethanol tunes without success. Car runs good for a day then starts to misfire. I'm looking forward to trying an updated map when he's back.

with regards to the rev range. its completely true that the turbo runs out of breath up top and to get max performance, you would shift around 5500rpm. but, this is also my daily driver and the car should work for the entire rev range so I always log to redline to make sure everything is working as it should. once that is confirmed, then I confirm the car works shifting at 5,500rpm as that is more representative of a max performance scenario.

[DrRobert]

Originally Posted by MiamiM3

I have been running the PTF E50 tune for a couple of months with no issues at all.

I can hammer the car in any gear at anytime with zero issues,

I do not go to redline because there is no point, the stock turbo runs out of breath well before 7000 rpms.

In my case I never tried running an E85 blend on the OEM turbo or the Pure stage 1 turbo; I only tried it after I made the jump to Pure stage 2. I wonder if you would have the same problem as me if you upgraded your turbo. For your sake I hope not!

Originally Posted by CantCatchMe

The issue with hard limps like I was getting on the Wedge E50 tune was caused by actual load meeting requesting load. That's the biggest issue that protunes have it seems. I should have just gotten the E40 map and tried it from there. I won't be messing with E85 till March, but those hard limps suck terribly. I hope most of you who have that issue get it fixed eventually by the tuner.

I've actually been having what appears to be two different types of engine shutdown during WOT while tuning for ethanol blends; both with and without actual load meeting requested load.

The first type is a really hard limp (i.e. complete engine failure with no response to throttle at all) with a P36CA code. Here is a log of that happening on E40 a few weeks ago. Other codes during this episode were P2C90, P2EFE, P2F01, P2F00, P2EEO, P2EEA, and P2EE7, but according to Dzenno P36CA is the big one.
E40 log #1 hard limp w/ P36CA

Dzenno said it was a torque limit issue (actual load higher than requested load) and raised the load values on the next map, but that was followed by the other type of engine shutdown, which also sent me into limp mode but gave me a variety of misfire codes such as P2EFE, P2F00, P2EE0, P2EE7, P2F01 and P2EEA (but no P36CA). Both types of limp mode required me to pull over and restart the engine, but with this second type of engine failure I can hobble along at a reduced speed for a short distance and find a suitable place to pull over, whereas with the P36CA limp the car did not respond to throttle at all requiring immediate pullover and restart. Here is a log of this second type of episode on E40. Notice that actual and requested load did not cross, but look what's happening with timing and AFR right before engine failure (this also occurred with the hard limp in log #1 above).
E40 log #2 medium hard limp w/ misfire codes

At that point Dzenno said these misfires could be due to either plugs that aren’t gapped properly (I had already sorted that out) or fuel limits being hit, so I dropped down to E30. But as I mentioned yesterday in post #75 I have had both of these types of engine failure on E30 since then, and the E30 log #3 in that post looks quite similar to my eye (if you click on AFR and cyl 1 timing) to the E40 log #2 above.

Not sure if this helps clarify anything or what it all means. I don't know if these 2 kinds of limp mode have two different causes, or if the harder limp with P36CA is just a more extreme form of the other variety without P36CA. Anyway, that's about where I'm at and I'm really quite confused about it. :

[olivojoe]

Originally Posted by houtan

You are the first person I have heard of running E50 with no issues on flash only. As Robert mentioned, please post additional information about your setup as well as some logs. Would also be good to know how you drive your car. Do you punch it to redline at least once or twice a drive or do more cruising around. For me, driving on all the ethanol tunes was perfect around town, but issues would come up after a day on full throttle pulls.

I was browsing another thread and saw another member (olivojoe) mention running E50 without issue. Sent him a PM to see if he can post an update. http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...1182565&page=2

My tune has actually been performing just like you say...

Great in partial throttle pulls, but an occasional complete misfire and power letdown when I go full throttle. I am still on the stock plugs but I need a part number for the correct "cooler" NGK plugs I am supposed to run per Dzenno's strong recommendation that are more ethanol tolerant. I just cannot remember which ones he said to get, and as you all know, he is out. Let me know what you guys are running or what plugs/gap I should get.

I am at work so I don't have access to my logs, but I'll try and get them up later.

[houtan]

Originally Posted by olivojoe

My tune has actually been performing just like you say...

Great in partial throttle pulls, but an occasional complete misfire and power letdown when I go full throttle. I am still on the stock plugs but I need a part number for the correct "cooler" NGK plugs I am supposed to run per Dzenno's strong recommendation that are more ethanol tolerant. I just cannot remember which ones he said to get, and as you all know, he is out. Let me know what you guys are running or what plugs/gap I should get.

I am at work so I don't have access to my logs, but I'll try and get them up later.

Thanks for posting. So that still makes only one car that is working well on an ethanol blend.

MiamiM3: are you running stock plugs?

[houtan]

Originally Posted by DrRobert

Thank you for posting that MiamiM3! So is that last log your final tune? Looks like max boost was 18 PSI. Houtan, how does that compare to your logs when you were having misfires on PTF tune?

My bad, I do have E50 logs from my last revision. as you will see, boost is same as my 91 tune, but timing is always above 5 and quickly works its way to 12ish, vs my 91 tune where timing advance dips a little negative under max boost then slowly works its way up to 5 degrees advance. For this tune, I believe what ended up happening is the timing advance was too aggressive and after a day of driving the car was misfiring and the throttle was closing soon after WOT. After this revision I switched to the JB4 because my schedule wasn't going to allow frequent logging and I was loosing confidence the tune would work.

here are the 3rd gear pulls on the first day of logging: http://datazap.me/u/houtan/ptf-stg2-...18-19-20-21-22


here are the multi gear pulls: http://datazap.me/u/houtan/ptf-stg2-...log=0&data=1-8

[DrRobert]

Originally Posted by olivojoe

My tune has actually been performing just like you say...

Great in partial throttle pulls, but an occasional complete misfire and power letdown when I go full throttle. I am still on the stock plugs but I need a part number for the correct "cooler" NGK plugs I am supposed to run per Dzenno's strong recommendation that are more ethanol tolerant. I just cannot remember which ones he said to get, and as you all know, he is out. Let me know what you guys are running or what plugs/gap I should get.

I am at work so I don't have access to my logs, but I'll try and get them up later.

Here is the link Dzenno sent me about those plugs.
N20 plugs
He recommended the third plug on the list, the one for flex fuel, but when I tried to order those from BMW I was told they were no longer in use, and they subbed the second one on the list (BMW p/n 12120039664, NGK SILZBR8D8S). Dzenno said those were fine and recommended gapping them to 0.018".

[MiamiM3]

Originally Posted by houtan

Thanks for posting. So that still makes only one car that is working well on an ethanol blend.

MiamiM3: are you running stock plugs?

Yes, i am running stock plugs. They were just replaced 1500 miles ago.

[Newguy123]

i never had limp mode or misfires on stock turbo e50 with jb4/bms backend running 20 psi midrange taper to redline. now the stage 2 turbo is in there its demanding a lot more fuel and moving a lot more air, misfires are pretty common 20+ psi. there are a few out there that have done steves TBI and misfires are obsolete since. i can tell you right now with my experience the jb4/bms backend flash allows most boost w/o misfires probably bc they run it so lean up top. im going to ask dzenno to lean my car out a little more and see if it helps.

[CantCatchMe]

Originally Posted by Newguy123

i never had limp mode or misfires on stock turbo e50 with jb4/bms backend running 20 psi midrange taper to redline. now the stage 2 turbo is in there its demanding a lot more fuel and moving a lot more air, misfires are pretty common 20+ psi. there are a few out there that have done steves TBI and misfires are obsolete since. i can tell you right now with my experience the jb4/bms backend flash allows most boost w/o misfires probably bc they run it so lean up top. im going to ask dzenno to lean my car out a little more and see if it helps.

TBI is on my list for the spring when I order the PS2 turbo. I think it's well worth the investment of $600. I just get scared a bit running so damn lean, I'm not used to it lol.

[DrRobert]

You guys think I'd still have misfires on PS2 turbo with OEM fueling system if I was running 96 octane gas (50:50 blend of 91 octane pump gas and 101 octane unleaded race fuel) instead of E85 blend?

[asrautox]

Originally Posted by DrRobert

You guys think I'd still have misfires on PS2 turbo with OEM fueling system if I was running 96 octane gas (50:50 blend of 91 octane pump gas and 101 octane unleaded race fuel) instead of E85 blend?

Doubt it.

[Newguy123]

Originally Posted by DrRobert

You guys think I'd still have misfires on PS2 turbo with OEM fueling system if I was running 96 octane gas (50:50 blend of 91 octane pump gas and 101 octane unleaded race fuel) instead of E85 blend?

hard to say. the stock fuel system can only pump so much fuel. it will def make it less likely as e85 is about 30% more volume to move compared to pump gas's. i have a TBI kit on the way to see if it helps with misfires will keep this thread up to date with everything.

[Newguy123]

TBI kit installed today, what a great easy to install mod! Fuel-It always delivers when it comes to ease of install and quality, good job Steve! Install took me about 4 hours start to finish including the flash back to the BMS PUMP gas BEF(from my PTF E30),checking for low pressure leaks and disconnecting my meth kit. I will do an e60 top off using the ethanol calculator to ensure accuracy and take some logs/update this thread on how the car runs and if misfires are still present with e60 and 20+ PSI woohoo