[Sniz]

will the procede be able to selectively clear only the warranty code...I dont think clearing all the codes at startup would be wise as they are necessary in troubleshooting, etc.

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by Sniz

will the procede be able to selectively clear only the warranty code...I dont think clearing all the codes at startup would be wise as they are necessary in troubleshooting, etc.

The first feature will be a global code clear. This function will be selectable through the user software. It will not be automatically done. After that, anything is possible. Like I said before, it is not a substitute for the BT diagnostic tool. And it never will be. It is simply a new way to get info in and out of the PROcede and to enhance ultimate functionality.

And yeah.. the haters on Terry's forum have been cracking me up all morning.

Shiv

[dmurray14]

Originally Posted by HighVoltage

Technically, although implied, he hasnt stated which CANbus is/are being interfaced. There are 4 CANbus networks on the vehicle:

K-CAN, PT-CAN, F-CAN, and OBDII. The CCC is located on KCAN but as Scalbert alluded to it is not quite as simple to display graphics as you are inferring. However it may be possible to interface with the RDS on the RAD (and equivalent on the CCC) in a more primitive fashion (simple text) to display data.

If there's anyone that knows about the CANbus in this car, it's probably you (saw your other thread). I wonder if there's a facility to send custom text messages to the kombi and CCC? Especially the "bar" on the bottom of the idrive display that says things like "Fuel Reserve!" and "Stability control off" or similar. If those aren't preprogrammed messages simply being triggered, perhaps the full text is being sent over the bus and we could display anything there? Just a thought.

BTW - I am still curious about the pre-3/07 build vehicles. Isn't there a difference in the busses? I thought, for instance, pre-March used a non-CAN K-Line for diagnostics and such. Any comments?

[mayno]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

The Rev.2 discount/upgrade price of $695 is still in effect for all original Rev.1/v3 owners. And by no means is this going to be a necessary upgrade. The PROcede already works plenty fine without CANbus integration.

what I'm saying is this: if a first time Procede user bought the Rev1/v3 as their "first" purchase, they'd get the discounted Rev 2 price of $695, right?

BUT if someone bought v1, v2 and then v3...they get it for the same price ($695) as the first time customer did who bought v3 as their first and only purchase.

what I mean is that those who have bought at each and every level should get a bigger discount. they have been the loyal and consistent customer which every business strives to attain. and it's even more critical to have faithful customers in this crappy economy.

don't get me wrong...I don't feel 100% entitled to this, but i think it's the right thing to do. if you don't do it, that's of course your call...it's your business. but i will definitely NOT get the upgrade in these tough economic times "unless" it includes a larger discount for those that have upgraded through all of the different versions.

Here's the idea for Rev 2 UPGRADE pricing:
1. Customers who only bought "ONE" version: $695
2. Customers who bought "TWO" versions (v1/v2 OR v2/v3): $595
3. Customers who bought "ALL THREE" versions: $495

ALL purchases "must" have been made via Vishtuning.com.

This seems like a fair proposition if you ask me.

[RBP AW]

^ I would put my money on them being pre-programmed, though that doesn't mean that a new trigger value/output can't be programmed (as far as manipulating idrive goes)

[scottp999]

Originally Posted by mayno

what I'm saying is this: if a first time Procede user bought the Rev1/v3 as their "first" purchase, they'd get the discounted Rev 2 price of $695, right?

BUT if someone bought v1, v2 and then v3...they get it for the same price ($695) as the first time customer did who bought v3 as their first and only purchase.

what I mean is that those who have bought at each and every level should get a bigger discount. they have been the loyal and consistent customer which every business strives to attain. and it's even more critical to have faithful customers in this crappy economy.

don't get me wrong...I don't feel 100% entitled to this, but i think it's the right thing to do. if you don't do it, that's of course your call...it's your business. but i will definitely NOT get the upgrade in these tough economic times "unless" it includes a larger discount for those that have upgraded through all of the different versions.

Here's the idea for Rev 2 UPGRADE pricing:
1. Customers who only bought "ONE" version: $695
2. Customers who bought "TWO" versions (v1/v2 OR v2/v3): $595
3. Customers who bought "ALL THREE" versions: $495

ALL purchases "must" have been made via Vishtuning.com.

This seems like a fair proposition if you ask me.

Problem with that is the $695 has been implimented. Many people that started at v1, v2 upgrade, V3 PNP have already forked over the $695, and they would be demanding Vishnu pay them the difference if they reduced the price mid-way. Of course you could do it and just tick off another part of the customer base. (I believe this type of situation happened with the Iphone?)

I completley understand your logic, but it would be like closing the barn door after the horse already left.

I forked over the $695 and think it's reasonable. We are all early adopters and sometimes there is a price to pay for that.

[cu_north]

How is the CANbus accessed? Is it another few wire taps from the ECU or a separated harness somewhere? Will one need to plug something in to the ODB port full time?

[HighVoltage]

Originally Posted by dmurray14

If there's anyone that knows about the CANbus in this car, it's probably you (saw your other thread). I wonder if there's a facility to send custom text messages to the kombi and CCC? Especially the "bar" on the bottom of the idrive display that says things like "Fuel Reserve!" and "Stability control off" or similar. If those aren't preprogrammed messages simply being triggered, perhaps the full text is being sent over the bus and we could display anything there? Just a thought.

I believe there is a way to do just that, but I am just guessing. I think it would require something to the effect of placing the RAD/CCC into AUX mode and sending the necessary text/graphic, similar to the Radio display data text. Does the graphic have to already exist on the display? Not so long as the interface to the display was left open-ended. These kind of matrix displays usually have both a text/character and graphic interface with a simple 8bit parallel or serial comm. This level of data could easily be pushed over CANbus.

CPU bandwidth on the Procede is going to heavily dictate the level of integration. From what we have heard so far, the current implementation of CANbus interaction is fairly primitive. It requires the external program on the RS232 interface to clear the code. The Procede is not autonomous in this configuration and is just serving as an expensive RS232 - CANbus gateway. If it is accomplishing this task in the same manner as say the BT, then it is using the OBDII bus. To interface to the cabin display(s) it would also require the 2nd CANbus to be active on the Procede and connected to KCAN. The integration of the Procede onto KCAN along with actively performing its duties as a piggyback on the DME, and interfacing with OBDII at the same time could prove a bit of a challenge for system resources from a 25Mhz CPU.

BTW - I am still curious about the pre-3/07 build vehicles. Isn't there a difference in the busses? I thought, for instance, pre-March used a non-CAN K-Line for diagnostics and such. Any comments?

I honestly dont know for certain, but I believe the E9x from conception has been using basically the same bus topologies. The E4x and E3x did use kbus (or ibus, a kbus derivative) for the cabin components but even then they utilized a CANbus for the drivetrain.

[baltik]

Originally Posted by scottp999

Problem with that is the $695 has been implimented. Many people that started at v1, v2 upgrade, V3 PNP have already forked over the $695, and they would be demanding Vishnu pay them the difference if they reduced the price mid-way. Of course you could do it and just tick off another part of the customer base. (I believe this type of situation happened with the Iphone?)

I completley understand your logic, but it would be like closing the barn door after the horse already left.

I forked over the $695 and think it's reasonable. We are all early adopters and sometimes there is a price to pay for that.

You make a valid point but those of us that have followed the upgrade path from the start are staring at almost $2k sunk, which is fine since we have been using the product longer. But now we can't even take advantage of all the functionality despite having spent the money. Remember the Procede has always commanded a premium price and one of the key rationales was the upgradeability of the product, the number of hardware inputs and outputs was prominantly featured from the get go, so we were paying for upside all along. Shiv has clearly delivered a superior product and I remain happy with my purchase - that said at close to $2700 to get full functionality - I feel that is now punitive to the early adopters who helped test the products, helped spread the gospel, have wired and rewired the harnesses amd extracted pins countless times, survived the V2 upgrade that dangerously understated the boost... My point is that this product has gone through considerable growing pains to get to the stable plug and play platform in a slick alloy case that it is today, abandoning those that were there for the ups and downs is a mistake.

[Hunter399]

Very cool Shiv!

[dmurray14]

Originally Posted by HighVoltage

I believe there is a way to do just that, but I am just guessing. I think it would require something to the effect of placing the RAD/CCC into AUX mode and sending the necessary text/graphic, similar to the Radio display data text. Does the graphic have to already exist on the display? Not so long as the interface to the display was left open-ended. These kind of matrix displays usually have both a text/character and graphic interface with a simple 8bit parallel or serial comm. This level of data could easily be pushed over CANbus.

CPU bandwidth on the Procede is going to heavily dictate the level of integration. From what we have heard so far, the current implementation of CANbus interaction is fairly primitive. It requires the external program on the RS232 interface to clear the code. The Procede is not autonomous in this configuration and is just serving as an expensive RS232 - CANbus gateway. If it is accomplishing this task in the same manner as say the BT, then it is using the OBDII bus. To interface to the cabin display(s) it would also require the 2nd CANbus to be active on the Procede and connected to KCAN. The integration of the Procede onto KCAN along with actively performing its duties as a piggyback on the DME, and interfacing with OBDII at the same time could prove a bit of a challenge for system resources from a 25Mhz CPU.

I honestly dont know for certain, but I believe the E9x from conception has been using basically the same bus topologies. The E4x and E3x did use kbus (or ibus, a kbus derivative) for the cabin components but even then they utilized a CANbus for the drivetrain.

Guess that is something we'll have to mess around with. In any of your data capture on the KCAN were you able to capture any messages being sent to either the kombi or the CCC? I would assume it is the ECU that is sending the low fuel warnings, I'd be curious to see whether it is just sending a trigger or actually pushing out the whole string. Otherwise it will probably be more of an adventure to figure out how to get it to display custom strings, but I'd bet, like you say, the functionality is there.

Regarding the CAN buses, it is my understanding that post 3/07 builds switched over to the DCAN interface instead of the K-line bus found on previous models. This is evident by comparing the OBD connectors themselves - pin 6 is used for the DCAN interface post 3/07, previous to that pin 7 was used for the K-line. That, however, is basically the limit of my understanding of the differences. In my 12/06 build, however, the DCAN pin is indeed absent, and as such I would not have the DCAN functionality through the OBD port. Which actually makes me curious as to how the BT tool is working - I'll bet the interface has both the k-line (sometimes referred to as "hex") and CAN connectors present, and is able to work with either.

Anyway, this should turn out to be pretty neat. Certainly seems to open up a whole range of previously unheard of tricks.

Dan

[HighVoltage]

Originally Posted by dmurray14

Guess that is something we'll have to mess around with. In any of your data capture on the KCAN were you able to capture any messages being sent to either the kombi or the CCC? I would assume it is the ECU that is sending the low fuel warnings, I'd be curious to see whether it is just sending a trigger or actually pushing out the whole string. Otherwise it will probably be more of an adventure to figure out how to get it to display custom strings, but I'd bet, like you say, the functionality is there.

Hard to say. I wasn't trying to track down that data. I don't have iDrive and I wasn't looking for RAD2 stuff either. I could probably at least track down the packets for the RAD2 with the software I put together. Decoding the packets is another story. If it will help jumpstart this, then I just need to find a few hours...

Regarding the CAN buses, it is my understanding that post 3/07 builds switched over to the DCAN interface instead of the K-line bus found on previous models. This is evident by comparing the OBD connectors themselves - pin 6 is used for the DCAN interface post 3/07, previous to that pin 7 was used for the K-line. That, however, is basically the limit of my understanding of the differences. In my 12/06 build, however, the DCAN pin is indeed absent, and as such I would not have the DCAN functionality through the OBD port. Which actually makes me curious as to how the BT tool is working - I'll bet the interface has both the k-line (sometimes referred to as "hex") and CAN connectors present, and is able to work with either.

Anyway, this should turn out to be pretty neat. Certainly seems to open up a whole range of previously unheard of tricks.

Dan

You're probably right. In addition to CANbus, the MC9S12DP Freescale CPU the Procede uses also has a J1850 interface. I believe for ISO 9141-2 (k-line) and ISO 14230-4 you can use a simple RS232 transciever. So in any case, if Shiv was thinking about your situation during design it shouldnt be an issue...

[jadeddjay]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

- No one currently running a rev.2 has the harness update. Even those who have *just* received their unit. The changes are being implemented with the batch of harnesses that are currently in manufacture right now.

so if i were to order today... would i get the CANbus incorporated to my rev2?

[RiXst3r]

Glad to see this finally announced to the public, it has been hard for me these last 4 months to keep it a secret!

This is one of the features that shiv shared with me, one of the reasons I started selling the PROcede. There are some AWESOME things that will be done with this... and even more features in the works as well... no I am not sharing yet

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by jadeddjay

so if i were to order today... would i get the CANbus incorporated to my rev2?

Yes, you would get the necessary harness update. The CANbus functionality would be made active with a firmware update.

Shiv

[cn555ic]

Wow this awesome can't wait till its ready for the public!

[uuni]

Originally Posted by baltik

You make a valid point but those of us that have followed the upgrade path from the start are staring at almost $2k sunk, which is fine since we have been using the product longer. But now we can't even take advantage of all the functionality despite having spent the money. Remember the Procede has always commanded a premium price and one of the key rationales was the upgradeability of the product, the number of hardware inputs and outputs was prominantly featured from the get go, so we were paying for upside all along. Shiv has clearly delivered a superior product and I remain happy with my purchase - that said at close to $2700 to get full functionality - I feel that is now punitive to the early adopters who helped test the products, helped spread the gospel, have wired and rewired the harnesses amd extracted pins countless times, survived the V2 upgrade that dangerously understated the boost... My point is that this product has gone through considerable growing pains to get to the stable plug and play platform in a slick alloy case that it is today, abandoning those that were there for the ups and downs is a mistake.

+1

I have spend on procede way over 2k nearly 3k (international shipping, taxes). Now I would need to spend another 1k to get few new feature?If I am not wrong Shiv has stated earlier that all updates are free (of course hardware upgrades aren't) I consider this upgrade to original procede. It's not fair we have to buy our second procede unit to get everything to work. Of course all material cost's are on us but making huge profit (little profit is ok because they are business) again on us ain't right. Another thing Shiv said (again my memory ain't perfect) that doomsday maps will have same or nearly same power than nonDD when we bought v3 upgrade so now it' happening but not with V3.

If somebody say sell to original and get few hundreds back (with v3) as for me it's allmost impossible in here Finland, 335i are quite rare and most of people don't tune them (hell most of them drive on OEM 17" wheels under them).

As baltik said we have supported vishnu so that they can make this great product which will put it in different league compared another tunes.

Hope we aren't forgotten.

[FotiosF90M5]

damn Shiv...good work. I think I will own a procede n54 forever. with all the cool things that keep coming...not to mention the constantly getting better power..I cant see myself getting anything different.

[cn555ic]

Originally Posted by uuni

+1

I have spend on procede way over 2k nearly 3k (international shipping, taxes). Now I would need to spend another 1k to get few new feature?If I am not wrong Shiv has stated earlier that all updates are free (of course hardware upgrades aren't) I consider this upgrade to original procede. It's not fair we have to buy our second procede unit to get everything to work. Of course all material cost's are on us but making huge profit (little profit is ok because they are business) again on us ain't right. Another thing Shiv said (again my memory ain't perfect) that doomsday maps will have same or nearly same power than nonDD when we bought v3 upgrade so now it' happening but not with V3.

If somebody say sell to original and get few hundreds back (with v3) as for me it's allmost impossible in here Finland, 335i are quite rare and most of people don't tune them (hell most of them drive on OEM 17" wheels under them).

As baltik said we have supported vishnu so that they can make this great product which will put it in different league compared another tunes.

Hope we aren't forgotten.

You could always sell it on the f/s threads, but have to ship internationally which i bet is quite expensive!

[joec500]

Originally Posted by uuni

+1

I have spend on procede way over 2k nearly 3k (international shipping, taxes). Now I would need to spend another 1k to get few new feature?If I am not wrong Shiv has stated earlier that all updates are free (of course hardware upgrades aren't) I consider this upgrade to original procede. It's not fair we have to buy our second procede unit to get everything to work. Of course all material cost's are on us but making huge profit (little profit is ok because they are business) again on us ain't right. Another thing Shiv said (again my memory ain't perfect) that doomsday maps will have same or nearly same power than nonDD when we bought v3 upgrade so now it' happening but not with V3.

If somebody say sell to original and get few hundreds back (with v3) as for me it's allmost impossible in here Finland, 335i are quite rare and most of people don't tune them (hell most of them drive on OEM 17" wheels under them).

As baltik said we have supported vishnu so that they can make this great product which will put it in different league compared another tunes.

Hope we aren't forgotten.

Yah...if you sell your V3, you can get $400-500 for it and only have to pay "a few hundred bucks" ($200-300) to upgrade. Shipping is something that is out of control for Vishnu, so that's just the price you pay for not living closer

Pay to play to be an early adopter...Part of life, I mean, you don't see early adopters of Plasma screen TV's or Blu Ray DVD players getting upset that the manufacturers are not giving them an "upgrade" path when superior units at a fraction of the price are available

[**335i**]

nice so now even if u have 29.1.1 or 29.2 u can use either dd and non dd maps

[GeorgiaTech335coupe]

Originally Posted by Sniz

will the procede be able to selectively clear only the warranty code...I dont think clearing all the codes at startup would be wise as they are necessary in troubleshooting, etc.

+1 I don't like to go to the dealership without any codes stored, just not the ones that call for trouble.