[rkg]

Just got mine back from the dealer. They heard the lifter noise but are saying it is normal, and I need more miles on my car (c'mon 4800 miles). They did say it is definitely lifter noise and not injector ...

I can see this will be a battle and now that it is documented, will keep a close eye on it for the duration of the warranty. The noise now is intermittent but gets more consistent as the temps drop ... we shall see.

[msinfo_us]

All credit goes to M3Wannabe:

Picture 1: Here is the cam.... All of the lobe tips have a rocker-width groove in them at least .004" (1/10mm) deep which reduced the cam's lift..... and almost all of the lobes have brown discolouration from overheating due to very old oil.

Picture 2: Here is one of the rocker arms (a.k.a. cam follower). The face where the cam presses was worn badly, possibly requiring the hydraulic lifter to extend further than it could, resulting in a large gap between the two which would have been making the ticking noise.

The pad that presses onto the lash cap (a.k.a. thrust disc) was also alot thinner than normal.

Picture 3: Here is one of the lash caps (a.k.a. thrust discs). Worn badly just like everything else

Picture 4: Here are 2 of the hydraulic lifters. One has been disassembled. On the right, the smaller piston is hollow and fills with oil under crank case pressure, extending the piston out of the larger casing to take up the pre-load under the rocker arm. If the piston sticks down into the casing, there will be a gap between the ball on top and the rocker arm, which will make a ticking noise.

[ages944]

Originally Posted by msinfo_us

All credit goes to M3Wannabe:

Picture 1: Here is the cam.... All of the lobe tips have a rocker-width groove in them at least .004" (1/10mm) deep which reduced the cam's lift..... and almost all of the lobes have brown discolouration from overheating due to very old oil.

Picture 2: Here is one of the rocker arms (a.k.a. cam follower). The face where the cam presses was worn badly, possibly requiring the hydraulic lifter to extend further than it could, resulting in a large gap between the two which would have been making the ticking noise.

The pad that presses onto the lash cap (a.k.a. thrust disc) was also alot thinner than normal.

Picture 3: Here is one of the lash caps (a.k.a. thrust discs). Worn badly just like everything else

Picture 4: Here are 2 of the hydraulic lifters. One has been disassembled. On the right, the smaller piston is hollow and fills with oil under crank case pressure, extending the piston out of the larger casing to take up the pre-load under the rocker arm. If the piston sticks down into the casing, there will be a gap between the ball on top and the rocker arm, which will make a ticking noise.

Damn fine post msinfo_us!

Might have to grab those pics and store em if the noise ever comes back.

[Alpine]

Guys, add me to the list. I got my car in september and heard the noise about 2-3 weeks later. I hear it mainly on cold starts but like everyone else, it goes away after a bit of driving. I thought it was just a noisy belt, but this thread makes me believe otherwise. I'm going to schedule an appointment with my dealer- who I have a very good relationship with- to see if we can't figure this craziness out. I'll keep everyone posted.

[msinfo_us]

yes. please do keep us posted with your findings. GL

[Phila]

I listened to msinfo's sound clip... Sounds like my car. T_T I guess I need to make a call to my BMW center soon. I made a video with my cell phone so I could prove it to them when I get there.

[rkg]

Interesting tidbit ... a friend of mine who is a BMW tech in another state said this ticking was very common with e36's and e46's if the oil was so much as 1/2 quart low. The variable timing is very sensitive to oil pressure and would cause lifter ticking in these engines.

As we all know, due to then insane engineering feat of no dipstick, my level was displaying max oil which tells me nothing if I am low by 1/2 a quart. After changing my oil (5,000 after changing breakin oil at 1,200) and adding 7 quarts, the tick is gone and has not re-surfaced the last two weeks.

This is really starting to make me wonder ...

[BK]

Originally Posted by rkg

As we all know, due to then insane engineering feat of no dipstick, my level was displaying max oil which tells me nothing if I am low by 1/2 a quart.

I can't stand having no dipstick either. But just so you know, the graphic oil level display is just 1 qt, not the full 7 qts. So if you're low by 1/2 qt, the display would show a bar graph half full. Based on that, it doesn't sound like your oil was low. But at least the noise has gone away.

[ScheerSpeed]

Originally Posted by ages944

Hi all,

Last week I noticed that my car's engine started to emit a metallic ticking noise while it was running. The noise seemed tied to the engine RPM, in that it would get faster / slower depending on the engine's speed. The noise is intermittent, and I haven't heard it in a couple of days. Has anyone else heard anything at all similar to this in their cars? Does anyone have an opinion to what it might be? I'm taking the car into the dealership on Thursday, but I'd like to have some idea of what might be going on first.

Thanks in Advance!

bomb in the engine....

[ages944]

ha, 24 little ones...

[txusa03]

Originally Posted by msinfo_us

yes. please do keep us posted with your findings. GL

msinfo_us, I appreciate the pics but I still have no clue what you just described in the above thread with those 4 pics. What ever it is and how it works, I am gonna keep a close eye on this thread just in case something come up. Feel free to feed my brain with your knowledge of cam, rockers, and lifters.

[timber71]

I have added some information to the other ticking threads in the forum, but this thread seems to be the most extensive, so here is my story...

(Excuse the metric, I am Canadian)

I picked up my 325i in July, and at about the 5000k mark, the ticking (exactly as posted earlier in the thread) started. As I live about 2 hours from the nearest dealership, I called the SA to see if I should drive it back, or put her on a flatbed. She said that since there was no 'service indicator' I should just wait until the next time I was in town to have it looked at. I did make a video of it on my Treo 650, and sent it up to her.

In October, I was heading up to Ottawa for a 2 week course so I booked the car in for service. They had it for 3 days and were unable to duplicate the sound (thanks Mr. Murphy), so at the end of the 1st week, I drove her home.

Sure enough, the sound returned, so on December 8th, I drove the car back to Ottawa. By the 15th they had duplicated the sound and diagnosed it as the lifters.

On the 18th, I got this e-mail:

-----Original Message-----
From: Tamara Wilson [mailto:t.wilson@bmwottawa.com]
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 5:18 PM
To: Tim Barber
Subject: RE: Solved?

Tim

Found a more serious problem. Not too sure what, placed a call to BMW, waiting to hear back. I'll investigate and as I said get back to you tomorrow. I am afraid the original Wed pickup date I mentioned is not going to happen, sorry to get your hopes up. Talk to you tomorrow

~T


Today "a more serious problem" has been translated into "a new cam has been ordered...backordered, with no ETA". Total mileage: 12000kms

Merry f'in Christmas?

For everyone out there debating whether or not to have the ticking noise investigated, here are my observations:

1. The harder/longer I drove my car, the longer it took before the ticking reappeared. Hence, 2 hours of highway driving required 6 days on the dealer lot before they could make it happen. If I just puttered around town, the sound reappeared the next morning, especially if it was cold and damp.

2. The problem IS serious, especially if the time I drove it caused the cam damage.

I would strongly suggest that anyone going to their dealer with this problem should take this full thread with them, and be prepared to leave the car there until they hear the ticking.

I only hope that when all this work is done, I never mistake my car for a Timex again.

[timber71]

Just a quick addition...I cannot compress my video of the ticking small enough to attach it to the thread. If anyone wants a copy of it, email me at timber71 'at' gmail dot com.

[msinfo_us]

Timber71, excellent post. Just another proof that ticking noise DOES have a long term effect on other (critical I might add) engine parts. Hope all goes well with your car.

[ages944]

Originally Posted by timber71

I only hope that when all this work is done, I never mistake my car for a Timex again.

... boy, I hope BMW doesn't try to use that one in an ad campaign ("It takes a lickin...")

txusa03, the parts msinfo_us was describing control how much and when air is taken into and out of the engine. Hence as he said, they're rather critical parts.

[txusa03]

Originally Posted by timber71

1. The harder/longer I drove my car, the longer it took before the ticking reappeared. Hence, 2 hours of highway driving required 6 days on the dealer lot before they could make it happen. If I just puttered around town, the sound reappeared the next morning, especially if it was cold and damp.

I am not saying my car has this sound. I heard a hellicopter like sound coming from my engine compartment a while back and thanks god never heard it again). Anyway, I wonder if me driving so much being that it is my only car and I have accumulated 29,700 miles, I might not hear this sound based on your deduction above. Does not make me feel any better just coz I dont here it with my car.

[Phila]

i went in to the dealer about this issue and they said believe me(cause i brought them a recording), but they said they need to hear it ticking in person before they can do anything about it. something about finding the exact cause of it. It made sense to me at the time, so I took my car and left. I have an open case with them and they told me to schedule another appointment in advance and leave the car there for a few days so they can try to reproduce the sound, OR to drive it in right away whenever it starts ticking. I live about 20-25 minutes away so I'm afraid that even if it ticks, by the time I get there it'll stop. Neither option sounds very good to me but what can I do?

ps - one guy DID try to pass it off as "the newer engines are louder", but I kept insisting it didn't sound normal so they had a shop foreman take a listen to my recording and he agreed that it definately sounded like a lifter.

[timber71]

Latest news from my dealer. 12 lifters on the exhaust side were out of tolerance, but no problems on the intake side. Parts "should" be in today, which hopefully means I can pick it up on Friday.

The Service Manager at Otto's in Ottawa has said that as part of their post repair QC, they are going to check the oil pressure at different parts of the engine to make sure that everything is the way it is supposed to be.

[ages944]

>>>>> Open Question <<<<<

Here's an open question for everyone who's had their ticking noise diagnosed as bad lifters, and had it repaired:

Which cylinder did the dealership say was out of spec?
My cylinder for instance, was Cylinder #1

[gary328xi]

I'm having the same ticking sound on start-up when it is cold. The car is only 2 months old with 1980 miles . I am taking it into the dealer tomorrow. With all this info in the forum i am ready with my big gun out for the service adviser. I have a recording of the ticking since it is intermittent so i'll see the outcome tomorrow.

[gary328xi]

Ok strike one.....took it in this morning explained the situation to the service adviser and played a recording of ticking sound. He them got the shop foreman to take a listen and agreed it is a sticky lifter. The shop foreman then brought the RPM up to 6000 and replicated the problem. He then continued to run it for 2 minutes and the sound went away. His explanation was the lifters needed bleeding. I have a gut feeling the gremlin will return so i made an appointment to bring the car back in a few days.

[dth656]

ages44 - the first time my car was 'fixed' (service where they replaced the lifters), it was cyl 1 & 2