[ATP]

Originally Posted by sickem

first of all, don't tell me to shut up, pal. it's funny how the people coming out and telling people not to bash this company (which I didn't do btw) are the same folks who bash anyone who expresses an opinion contrary to their own. But I have just as much of a right to express my opinion on this matter as you do...if you don't like it or are just a lemming fanboy of this company then that's your problem.

the difference here is that Helix, et. al. are already industry incumbents with tons of data out there to support their products so they don't have to do their own testing...they already have a reputation with their intercooler. That is part of the cost of doing business of being "fast" follow-on like VRSF...much of the actual R&D has been done for you by those established in that space-your challenge is breaking into market and making a reputation for yourself. Marketing 101 lesson over.

Do you see VRSF crying becasue there is no interest in their IC? I don't. There is plenty of initial interest in this IC based on the cost and their proven record elsewhere. AKA, they don't need to piss away money on marketing. After the initial reviewers get the IC and test it, then there will be data provided by users, just like Helix, ETS, AMS, etc.

[F80M]

Originally Posted by ATP

Do you see VRSF crying becasue there is no interest in their IC? I don't. There is plenty of initial interest in this IC based on the cost and their proven record elsewhere. AKA, they don't need to piss away money on marketing. After the initial reviewers get the IC and test it, then there will be data provided by users, just like Helix, ETS, AMS, etc.

That is not R&D...

Oh wait...here one more ...

[ATP]

Originally Posted by 91Octane

That is not R&D...

Oh wait...here one more ...

No shit it's not R&D. They undoubtedly did some R&D during their design phase but there is nothing forcing them to release that data, no one else has. Giving up IP is a death sentence, Engineering 101.

I am not trying to get into an arguement here. I just don't see the point in bitching becasue VRSF can't/won't buy $3k work of intercoolers and do a comparison. They have hype, a good price point, and reputation and thats all they need. Users will provide the data for free once the IC is released. I suggest everyone else sit back and wait if they don't want to be early adopters.

[Surquhar]

Lets get real here. Do you all really expect VRSF to spend the money to buy every other FMIC on the market to try and test each one and show the data?? It would be impossible, the conditions would obviously change and most importantly if they showed any gains over the competitors everyone (including other FMIC vendors) would jump in say "this isn't an independent test! The vendor is.... blah blah blah". Looks to me like they listened to the vast majority of us and put out a great FMIC at the price most of you were asking for. And yes its way better than stock. If this 7" was out when I bought mine I would have bought one in a heartbeat and saved 500 bucks.

[uniter]

CPE Released R&D artifacts. Actually, tons of them. I find it provides an extremely compelling argument towards proving it was actually 'engineered' rather than cobbled together.

[Surquhar]

Originally Posted by uniter

CPE Released R&D artifacts. Actually, tons of them. I find it provides an extremely compelling argument towards proving it was actually 'engineered' rather than cobbled together.

Do you have a CPE FMIC?

[Tiago@VRSF]

Originally Posted by sickem

As a casual observer with no skin in the game (still running stock IC but will be in the market soon for an upgrade and I am ALL FOR supporting new vendors and creating competition) but I'm disappointed that VRSF isn't taking a more data-driven approach here to marketing their new product.

Seems to me they're hiding behind the "all logs are different" defense. Step up to the plate, spend some R&D money to buy competitor FMICs, do a head-to-head comparo, then post the results. It's kind of funny that you scoff at doing that. .

Hell, even if the more expensive options beat you out you can still justify it by saying how much cheaper your product is and making the case that the extra $400+ isn't justified by the incremental improvement in performance. Instead, by dodging the data collection, you've made me very skeptical of your product and given me the impression you're just targeting the "anything is better than stock" crowd...a bucket I certainly don't put myself into and not a sustainable business strategy IMO. Until I see some data, I'll be saving my pennies for a Helix unit.

Find me one competitor that has done this comparison. Then we'll talk

We're going to get logs for the intercooler vs stock but I'm not going to concede to these unreasonable requests to log every popular intercooler. Again, we'll get logs, but they're going to be the same style logs you see now for any competitors intercoolers.

I'm not hiding behind a defense, I'm stating the reason no manufacturer has done a head to head comparison of all the popular brands. Our intercooler's fin pack design has proven itself time and time again in both the Evo/DSM scene. We have dozens of cars in the 700whp range putting down 9 second quarter miles with the fin design we use.

Your skepticism is based on the fact that we won't do a test that NOBODY else has done in this market. By your example, you should be skeptical of all the vendors pushing FMIC's.

If there were an opportunity to send an intercooler to someone who would guarantee an unbiased review/log/comparison I'd gladly send one over. There is no "any intercooler is better than the stock" mentality over here. This is the real deal that will cool just as well as the big boys and look good doing it

[daemonicus]

you people need to step outside your precious 335 zone and look at any other platform. you all look at intercoolers like they're a gold mine of extra hidden power. go check out any other cars that run turbos and you'll see that most people just have an intercooler. nobody brand shops between companies just to gain an extra couple hp. it's an intercooler. it's a bar and plate design with 2 end tanks and 2 pipes that connect to it.

sickem, VRSF doesn't need to waste money and time on making logs comparing different intercoolers to theirs. they have an intercooler that is much better than stock, virtually plug and play, yields about the same gains as any other company and costs significantly less. even if they didn't make as much power as a helix unit, does that really justify the price difference?

if buying a $900 intercooler vs. a less expensive (notice i didn't say cheaper) intercooler makes you sleep better at night because you know between 2500-4500 rpm, you make an extra 10 hp, than more power to you. you're an idiot, as are most people that drive tuned e90's.

as long as the intercooler is better than stock, at the power levels that 90% of you that are reading this are making, it doesn't make two shits of a difference whether you have a small intercooler or big intercooler, the fact is, it's better than stock.

what are most of you guys pushing? 350-400 horse on a car that makes 260-280 stock? you really think an extra couple hp makes any difference? take that BMW wool off your eyes and realize that until you start getting up into the 500-600 hp range, anything is better than stock.

how about we all hop on that AR bandwagon again and try and find reasons to justify why their DP's are worth $800 while VRSF's are half that price and the same quality? oh that's right, because AR take fancy pictures and has a tapered neck closer to the end of the DP? this forum is ridiculous because half the people here haven't ever built a car, raced a car, or know anything past how to change maps on their piggyback tune and yet they argue like little girls about the most irrelevant crap that they know nothing about.

[Surquhar]

Originally Posted by daemonicus

you people need to step outside your precious 335 zone and look at any other platform. you all look at intercoolers like they're a gold mine of extra hidden power. go check out any other cars that run turbos and you'll see that most people just have an intercooler. nobody brand shops between companies just to gain an extra couple hp. it's an intercooler. it's a bar and plate design with 2 end tanks and 2 pipes that connect to it.

sickem, VRSF doesn't need to waste money and time on making logs comparing different intercoolers to theirs. they have an intercooler that is much better than stock, virtually plug and play, yields about the same gains as any other company and costs significantly less. even if they didn't make as much power as a helix unit, does that really justify the price difference?

if buying a $900 intercooler vs. a less expensive (notice i didn't say cheaper) intercooler makes you sleep better at night because you know between 2500-4500 rpm, you make an extra 10 hp, than more power to you. you're an idiot, as are most people that drive tuned e90's.

as long as the intercooler is better than stock, at the power levels that 90% of you that are reading this are making, it doesn't make two shits of a difference whether you have a small intercooler or big intercooler, the fact is, it's better than stock.

what are most of you guys pushing? 350-400 horse on a car that makes 260-280 stock? you really think an extra couple hp makes any difference? take that BMW wool off your eyes and realize that until you start getting up into the 500-600 hp range, anything is better than stock.

how about we all hop on that AR bandwagon again and try and find reasons to justify why their DP's are worth $800 while VRSF's are half that price and the same quality? oh that's right, because AR take fancy pictures and has a tapered neck closer to the end of the DP? this forum is ridiculous because half the people here haven't ever built a car, raced a car, or know anything past how to change maps on their piggyback tune and yet they argue like little girls about the most irrelevant crap that they know nothing about.

Dude?? r u running meth??

Or RU TGS buddy

[Surquhar]

Originally Posted by daemonicus

you people need to step outside your precious 335 zone and look at any other platform. you all look at intercoolers like they're a gold mine of extra hidden power. go check out any other cars that run turbos and you'll see that most people just have an intercooler. nobody brand shops between companies just to gain an extra couple hp. it's an intercooler. it's a bar and plate design with 2 end tanks and 2 pipes that connect to it.

sickem, VRSF doesn't need to waste money and time on making logs comparing different intercoolers to theirs. they have an intercooler that is much better than stock, virtually plug and play, yields about the same gains as any other company and costs significantly less. even if they didn't make as much power as a helix unit, does that really justify the price difference?

if buying a $900 intercooler vs. a less expensive (notice i didn't say cheaper) intercooler makes you sleep better at night because you know between 2500-4500 rpm, you make an extra 10 hp, than more power to you. you're an idiot, as are most people that drive tuned e90's.

as long as the intercooler is better than stock, at the power levels that 90% of you that are reading this are making, it doesn't make two shits of a difference whether you have a small intercooler or big intercooler, the fact is, it's better than stock.

what are most of you guys pushing? 350-400 horse on a car that makes 260-280 stock? you really think an extra couple hp makes any difference? take that BMW wool off your eyes and realize that until you start getting up into the 500-600 hp range, anything is better than stock.

how about we all hop on that AR bandwagon again and try and find reasons to justify why their DP's are worth $800 while VRSF's are half that price and the same quality? oh that's right, because AR take fancy pictures and has a tapered neck closer to the end of the DP? this forum is ridiculous because half the people here haven't ever built a car, raced a car, or know anything past how to change maps on their piggyback tune and yet they argue like little girls about the most irrelevant crap that they know nothing about.

I agree 100%

[Dmacc]

Originally Posted by sickem

OMG! Some douchebag with 111 posts who writes in broken english on an anonymous BMW forum doesn't think I have enough performance mods! what a bunch of fucking four year olds.

I have to agree with your points sickem, only people who know about or have used vrsf intercoolers on other platforms, or simply don't want to pay a lot for an intercooler, are going to be the ones arguing with you.

While they do have a point that VRSF does not have to provide any comparos to other intercoolers since other companies have not, for a company coming late into the game on this platform as asking for a price much cheaper than others, those who have never dealt with the company are obviously going to be skeptical.

Using the argument why should we have to compare our intercooler if others haven't is an okay thing to do, just understand that's it's going to narrow your customer base until someone actually does compare the intercooler with others.

What's not okay is to attack someone who is skeptical when they are just providing some valid points from a business prospective. Everyone who thinks sickem is blowing all of this out of their ass is either a fanboy of the company, doesn't understand how building a customer base on a new platform works when coming this late into the game, doesn't want to pay the extra money for other intercoolers that have already been compared, or simply likes to argue.

The immaturity on this thread is something to laugh about, especially those who are throwing personal attacks that have nothing to do with anything in this thread.

Grow up kids.

[sickem]

Originally Posted by Dmacc

I have to agree with your points sickem, only people who know about or have used vrsf intercoolers on other platforms, or simply don't want to pay a lot for an intercooler, are going to be the ones arguing with you.

While they do have a point that VRSF does not have to provide any comparos to other intercoolers since other companies have not, for a company coming late into the game on this platform as asking for a price much cheaper than others, those who have never dealt with the company are obviously going to be skeptical.

What's not okay is to attack someone who is skeptical when they are just providing some valid points from a business prospective. Everyone who thinks sickem is blowing all of this out of their ass is either a fanboy of the company, doesn't understand how building a customer base on a new platform works when coming this late into the game, doesn't want to pay the extra money for other intercoolers that have already been compared, or simply likes to argue.

The immaturity on this thread is something to laugh about, especially those who are throwing personal attacks that have nothing to do with anything in this thread.

Grow the f$@! up kids.

at least there's some good ones left among the bomb throwers on here.

[Tiago@VRSF]

This thread has been de-railed so hard I don't even know what to comment on. I personally haven't attacked anyone in this thread because they had a different opinion, that's not what I do. They have a right to feel/think a certain way and no amount of internet bickering is going to change that. If you feel skeptical, if you don't want to purchase the intercooler, don't. Nobody is forcing the product on you and I wouldn't feel right if someone purchased a product without 100% confidence but I can tell you that we already have a couple cars in the 400+ whp range that are running our intercooler and that in the next few weeks you're going to see quite a few more.

GB will be starting up mid next week, just took some nice pics and the intercoolers are about 2 weeks out!

[stressdoc]

Please no more bitching or personal attacks in this thread (or elsewhere...). Points will be given to even small transgressions. Please work hard at wording your comments in a positive friendly way, give others the benefit of the doubt, and avoid getting trapped into pissing match death spirals.

[quattrosaint]

Originally Posted by Tiago@VRSF

This thread has been de-railed so hard I don't even know what to comment on. I personally haven't attacked anyone in this thread because they had a different opinion, that's not what I do. They have a right to feel/think a certain way and no amount of internet bickering is going to change that. If you feel skeptical, if you don't want to purchase the intercooler, don't. Nobody is forcing the product on you and I wouldn't feel right if someone purchased a product without 100% confidence but I can tell you that we already have a couple cars in the 400+ whp range that are running our intercooler and that in the next few weeks you're going to see quite a few more.

GB will be starting up mid next week, just took some nice pics and the intercoolers are about 2 weeks out!

Thank you for giving us more options on this platform. I've built several very fast Audi's over the years (tested quite a few new products) and hung out on Audizine for quite some time. I have to say I never saw people bitch like on here about new products and options for their cars. Most of the people that due so, never push their cars past a tune and even fewer track them. Thank you for your hard work and for keeping it civil when others won't. I look forward to running your products.

[uniter]

Originally Posted by Surquhar

Do you have a CPE FMIC?

Naw man, I have an ETS.

[mave198]

Off topic, but u guys have a exhaust system in the works also?

On topic alot of people are very happy a company like VRSF are providing these options at such a competitive price point, I don't understand why there is so much bitching over nonsense however.

[Projekt_BooGie]

Tiago Pm Me!!!!!!!! Check Your Pm

[daemonicus]

Originally Posted by mave198

On topic alot of people are very happy a company like VRSF are providing these options at such a competitive price point

it's been a long time coming for a vendor to come on here and offer a product that's actually worth the money they charge.

Originally Posted by mave198

I don't understand why there is so much bitching over nonsense however.

here's the problem. most vendors go by the theory "you have to pay to play" so they knowingly mark their products up past what would be reasonable. because of that, ill-informed members of forums like this, start believing that. they think that unless an exhaust is $1000+, DPs are $800+ and ICs are 700+ that they aren't getting "BMW" quality parts. it helps them sleep better at night.

refer to my post on the previous page.

[Rotary Rasp]

Originally Posted by daemonicus

it's been a long time coming for a vendor to come on here and offer a product that's actually worth the money they charge.



here's the problem. most vendors go by the theory "you have to pay to play" so they knowingly mark their products up past what would be reasonable. because of that, ill-informed members of forums like this, start believing that. they think that unless an exhaust is $1000+, DPs are $800+ and ICs are 700+ that they aren't getting "BMW" quality parts. it helps them sleep better at night.

refer to my post on the previous page.

+1

[oma3710]

So when are these going to be available? And whats the price?

[Tiago@VRSF]

We have logs! A good friend/customer was able to take the time to get us some independent logs of the stock intercooler vs the VRSF 7".

"The log with new intercooler is actually much more worst case. The log failed to start the first few runs so the car was definitely getting hotter. On subsequent runs. On the Stock log it was from the first run."

He's posting up a more detailed review shortly but here's a quick glance: