[GTO2turbos]

The cars are factory stock down to the paper filter, including stock tires. But, people can cheat, we only ask for a time slip or vid for proof. But the trap mph is consistent across the board.

[nmROD]

wow those are good times for stock skinnys!

[Mr. 5]

After my first couple of posts in this thread (calling the new GTO slow), I will be completely admit that it was obvious that I have had experiences with the LS1 motors and not the LS2 motors.
I guess in the past, I have only raced the LS1 motors, so right now I'm eating my words.

I went to Irwindale tonight and I paid more attention to the GTOs (determining if it was 6.0 or not). I talked to a couple guys and they were real cool.
One guy ran a 7.89 in the 1/8th with slicks.
Awesome time.

[speedfreak81]

Originally Posted by hotrod182

Very nice run. So you also saw faster times from your car than any of the fairly stock GTOs. I mean, I personally watched and took pictures of about 4 different GTOs at LACR. None of them came close to the 13's. On average I was beating them by about a second in my stock 335i. So if anyone else beats them at the track, and gets to see what their actual times are compared to the 335i, please post them. We will then get a better idea of how fast they are. Its hard to tell in a street race with such closely matched cars. I mean, one person can jump on the throttle .30 seconds earlier, and that could be the outcome of the race. One thing I'm trying to figure out is why the 335i seems to be so inconsistant with mods. I mean, if I could consistantly get 50 more horsepower out of my car with software, it would be great. But I have seen non-stock 335i track times that are barely different than my stock one. I think it has to do with particular temps, etc, and how the computer pulls timing, etc. Although my runs were almost at 100F at high altitude.

Comparing a forced induction car to an N/A at high altitude and then deeming the N/A car to be "that's how fast they are" isn't really fair. Someone in a stock 335i is going to get a RUDE awakening if they read your post, and then go and race a properly driven 6 spd GTO at sea level.

I've trapped 109 in my GTO and it's BONE stock with less than 3,000 miles on the car. I don't see ANY stock 335is trapping that fast.

[ezatnova]

Originally Posted by GeorgiaTech335coupe

GTOs were produced to be fast cars so why would GM underrate it? BMW had a lot more reasons to underrate their car. Before I posted, I looked up dyno charts on drag times.com and the only stock GTO I found 05+ was around 330 rwhp.

So, all of the Camaros and Corvettes that have been notoriously underrated for MANY years aren't produced to be fast cars? It's really common knowledge that they are way underrated.

[Doc GTO]

Originally Posted by Mr. 5

After my first couple of posts in this thread (calling the new GTO slow), I will be completely admit that it was obvious that I have had experiences with the LS1 motors and not the LS2 motors.
I guess in the past, I have only raced the LS1 motors, so right now I'm eating my words.

I went to Irwindale tonight and I paid more attention to the GTOs (determining if it was 6.0 or not). I talked to a couple guys and they were real cool.
One guy ran a 7.89 in the 1/8th with slicks.
Awesome time.

I'm one of theose slow LS1 GTOs

Cool site guys! I love the new 335s. Back in the day my dad had a 535is that had a little Dinan work done to it! Very cool ride for the late 80s!!!

[hotrod182]

Originally Posted by speedfreak81

Comparing a forced induction car to an N/A at high altitude and then deeming the N/A car to be "that's how fast they are" isn't really fair. Someone in a stock 335i is going to get a RUDE awakening if they read your post, and then go and race a properly driven 6 spd GTO at sea level.

I've trapped 109 in my GTO and it's BONE stock with less than 3,000 miles on the car. I don't see ANY stock 335is trapping that fast.

Okay..if that is true, then how come at Famosa/Bakersfield, which is about 600Ft above sea level...78F day...the non-supercharged GTOs that were there were only running mid 13's, about the same as my stock 06 M3? And my stock 335i runs just a fast at sea level, and faster than my M3 at higher elevations. A procede 335i almost ran a 13 Flat, and would run away from any of the non-supercharged GTOs there that day. And yes, you can say, well you can mod you GTO to do that with very little $$, but can you really mod it, with $1300, not make it any louder, total sleeper, and still get 29-30mpg on the highway? It might be hard because it just doesn't have the high tech direct injection, piezo injectors, dual variable camshaft timing, 6 spd steptronic trans that can shift faster than 90% of the GTOs out there( I have the acceleration graphs)..etc...etc.
Bottom line, is there is a lot more technology in the 335i engine that the GTO engines simply can't match. That is why the 335i engine just won International Engine Of The Year. Not because it is just some huge displacement high horsepower engine...but because of the technology, and the way it goes about making its horsepower efficiently. You see, this is the kind of thing that you pay for when you purchase a new BMW.

I don't know how often you go to the track, but here are the results from my visit to Bakersfield. As you can see the NA GTOs are running around mid 13's. Close to what my M3 is running. Sure, I have run 107mph in my M3 before, but this is comparing these cars at the same track, same day. I can assure you, none of the GTOs would touch 109mph. And the Procede 335i sedan would have walked away from any of those GTOs. My stock M3 is highlighted, as are the GTOs, and the Procede 335i. And those GTO owners that think they walk away from M3s all the time, may be running against M3s like the ones that are (A second slower) achieving 14.5's at the track. The M3s are just as challenging to drive down the 1/4 mile with their low torque, peaky powerbands. If anyone else takes their 335i BMWs to the track, see how the GTOs are performing compared to your cars and let us know.

10.67@126.28 White C5 Vette
11.71@122.28 White Mustang Early 2000s
11.84@117.87 White Firebird
12.80@116.56 Red Mustang late 90s
12.90@115.22 Blue M3 S/chg
12.24@113.76 Black GTO
12.39@112.40 Dark Evo
12.16@111.84 Ford Lightning Truck
12.16@111.28 Red Mustang Early 2000s
12.11@111.27 Red Mustang Early 2000s
12.04@111.51 White Evo
12.18@111.30 Black Evo
13.07@109.59 Black Mustang Mid 80s
13.13@107.83 Black C5 Vette
13.03@107.60 Blue Procede 335i13.42@107.29 Grey M3
13.95@107.66 Silver Supra Turbo
13.75@106.81 Black Procede 335i
12.66@106.79 Red Celica Mid 2000s
13.28@106.58 Black Z28..SS?
13.21@106.44 Blue Procede 335ia
13.36@105.73 Red Z28
13.59@105.68 Grey Camaro SS
13.49@105.02 Silver GTO
13.51@104.88 Grey GTO
13.94@104.85 Neon SRT4
12.86@104.60 Red Z28
12.69@104.45 Blue 4dr Civic Mid 90's
13.66@104.29 Black Neon SRT4
13.55@104.14 White M3 SMG
14.28@103.77 Black Mustang Gt New
13.73@103.53 Black M3
13.86@103.22 Black M3
13.07@103.25 Silver EVO
13.74@102.71 White Mustang Gt. early 2000
14.58@102.40 Grey M3
13.52@101.91 White Late Model Silverado PU.
14.32@101.69 Grey M3 w/pass
13.72@101.66 Grey M3
14.07@101.27 Grey Civic Coupe Mid 90s
14.62@101.21 Dodge Charger SRT8 New.
13.95@100.94 Green Z28 Conv.
14.15@99.81 Grey Mustang Gt Early 2000
14.16@99.72 2006 Audi S4
14.08@99.12 White Firebird
13.58@98.79 Neon SRT4 w/CF hood
14.22@97.99 Red Ford Lightning Truck
14.70@97.59 White S2000
14.69@97.53 Silver Mustang GT early 2000
14.73@97.42 Silver 350Z
14.44@97.28 Grey VW Sedan
14.59@97.24 Grey Honda CRX
16.79@97.11 Red Firebird
14.11@96.53 Blue Evo
16.42@95.97 Blue Corvette C4
14.60@94.88 Silver Acura RSX
14.85@94.86 97 Civic Coupe
14.65@93.87 Grey Buick Regal S/chg
16.18@93.71 Pink Civic Coupe Mid 90s
14.97@93.69 Yellow Civic Coupe
15.57@93.14 White Chevy Colbalt
15.82@91.38 Red Chevy Silverado
15.03@91.28 Red Chevy Silverado
15.31@90.84 Grey Pontiac Bonneville SSEI
15.93@90.45 Red 240SX
16.49@85.51 Black Civic Coupe mid90s
16.67@83.34 Grey Cougar..~2002
18.02@83.92 Red Civic Coupe Mid 90s

[Carnage]

Originally Posted by hotrod182

And yes, you can say, well you can mod you GTO to do that with very little $$, but can you really mod it, with $1300, not make it any louder, total sleeper, and still get 29-30mpg on the highway? It might be hard because it just doesn't have the high tech direct injection, piezo injectors, dual variable camshaft timing, 6 spd steptronic trans that can shift faster than 90% of the GTOs out there( I have the acceleration graphs)..etc...etc.
Bottom line, is there is a lot more technology in the 335i engine that the GTO engines simply can't match. That is why the 335i engine just won International Engine Of The Year. Not because it is just some huge displacement high horsepower engine...but because of the technology, and the way it goes about making its horsepower efficiently. You see, this is the kind of thing that you pay for when you purchase a new BMW.

Oh dear God, please spare me the BMW "International Engine of the Year" marketing line. Remember, the GTO's share the same motor as the Vette's (LS1 and LS2) and not only are they one of the most bulletproof motors out there, the almost endless modding capabilities of those motors has been well documented. The beauty of the motor is the simplicity of it. It's the same battle-tested design that produces great HP, great MPG, and it's easy to work on and upgrade. The same can not be said about the N52 in my 330i, the N54 in the 335 or the S54 in your current (and my old) M3. Ever heard of a GM small block having an "Engine of Damocles" type issue? Sometimes over-engineering can be a bad thing.

I can take my '07 C6 Vette with the same LS2 motor and smoke 335i's all day long so let's keep on the focus on what the GTO's liabilities truly are. BTW, with just 2K mods my car sounds stock, puts down over 400 RHWP, gets 29-30 mpg on the highway and runs high 11's. Could your motor/car make that same statement? I already know the answer to that question and that's why my M3 was traded for the C6.

The thing holding back the GTO is not the motor, it's the weight of the car. It's a Goat, but it's a big overweight goat that is close to 4,000 lbs. with a driver (no offense GTO owners). Even though it's got a 60-70 HP advantage over the 335 or M3, it's 400-500 lbs. heavier and that is a killer. Drop about a couple hundred lbs off of it and that car (stock) would be giving stock 335's and E46 M3's fits. Drop another couple hundred off and you get a C6 Vette and I don't hear people arguing over whether or not a 335 or E46 M3 will smoke a C6 Vette.

[hotrod182]

Originally Posted by Carnage

Oh dear God, please spare me the BMW "International Engine of the Year" marketing line. Remember, the GTO's share the same motor as the Vette's (LS1 and LS2) and not only are they one of the most bulletproof motors out there, the almost endless modding capabilities of those motors has been well documented. The beauty of the motor is the simplicity of it. It's the same battle-tested design that produces great HP, great MPG, and it's easy to work on and upgrade. The same can not be said about the N52 in my 330i, the N54 in the 335 or the S54 in your current (and my old) M3. Ever heard of a GM small block having an "Engine of Damocles" type issue? Sometimes over-engineering can be a bad thing.

I can take my '07 C6 Vette with the same LS2 motor and smoke 335i's all day long so let's keep on the focus on what the GTO's liabilities truly are. BTW, with just 2K mods my car sounds stock, puts down over 400 RHWP, gets 29-30 mpg on the highway and runs high 11's. Could your motor/car make that same statement? I already know the answer to that question and that's why my M3 was traded for the C6.

The thing holding back the GTO is not the motor, it's the weight of the car. It's a Goat, but it's a big overweight goat that is close to 4,000 lbs. with a driver (no offense GTO owners). Even though it's got a 60-70 HP advantage over the 335 or M3, it's 400-500 lbs. heavier and that is a killer. Drop about a couple hundred lbs off of it and that car (stock) would be giving stock 335's and E46 M3's fits. Drop another couple hundred off and you get a C6 Vette and I don't hear people arguing over whether or not a 335 or E46 M3 will smoke a C6 Vette.

The 335i has half the displacement as the LS2. Sure it is turbocharged, but it is fairly low boost, low inertia turbos, which provides it with its exemplary low lag characteristics. Its hard to compare a 2 seater Fiberglass Corvette with a 4 door sedan. Furthermore the interior room in a GTO is not that much larger, if at all compared to the 335i. Look at the 335i front subframe with all its expensive aluminum fabrication. I haven't looked, but I doubt the GTO was engineered to that degree. What you are saying about the tried and trued small block Chevy is almost the same as what they write about the Buick derived 3.8L V6 (that was an offshoot of the engine in my Grand National). The 3800 Buick after decades of use is finally going to be retired in 2008 supposedly. That engine still got better gas mileage than many small engine imports. It was very quiet, adapted well to supercharging, was fairly smooth, etc. But the decades old engineering doesn't even compare to the latest from BMW. Look at the new M3 with ion sensing knock control, hyperfast DME, etc. You don't need that kind of technology with lower revving high displacement engines. But some people like to own more cutting edge technology cars. And yes, you can slap turbos on just about any type of engine, and exceed the output of your Corvette engine, but that doesn't mean it is advanced in technology. That total advanced engineering is not something you can just slap onto your car. So you can buy an Ariel Atom that will run circles around your Corvette, for just as cheap too. Does that make you want to run out and buy one? Some people believe in crashworthiness, technology, etc. If you just want the best power/weight ratio..go buy a motorcycle. Well, you get the point.

PS: As far as a 335i not being able to put down 400RWHP and get 29-30MPG, its probably not a far-fetched possibility in the near future. The main advantage the Corvette would have is its light weight..due to it being a small 2 seat sports car. I would be willing to bet that the BMW one series, by the end of next year, will be easy to modify to run with a stock 06-07 C6, with no loss in drivability whatsoever. And still get 29+ MPG. And it CAN seat 4 people. And the International Engine Of The Year Award: Oh yeah, thats probably something just given out by some folks that don't know a thing about engines or technology? (Even though it is an international panel.)

[Walked U]

Hhaha hey whats up speedfreak.

Seems like im seeing you more and more on bmw forums.

[Rangeball]

The GTO can be put on a diet. Its not a lot but I was able to drop about about 100 lbs off the daily weight and with the back seats out the car can get down to 3600 lbs. Still heavy though.

Can't argue that the N54 is not an awesome engine. For BMW to even go back to turbos meant they had something good. This arguement (GTO vs. 335i) depends on your needs and your pockets. Sometimes simplicity can be a good thing though.

[Carnage]

Originally Posted by hotrod182

The 335i has half the displacement as the LS2. Sure it is turbocharged, but it is fairly low boost, low inertia turbos, which provides it with its exemplary low lag characteristics. Its hard to compare a 2 seater Fiberglass Corvette with a 4 door sedan. Furthermore the interior room in a GTO is not that much larger, if at all compared to the 335i. Look at the 335i front subframe with all its expensive aluminum fabrication. I haven't looked, by I doubt the GTO was engineered to that degree. What you are saying about the tried and trued small block Chevy is almost the same as what they write about the Buick derived 3.8L V6 (that was and offshoot of the engine in my Grand National). The 3800 Buick after decades of use is finally going to be retired in 2008 supposedly. That engine still got better gas mileage than many small engine imports. It was very quiet, adapted well to supercharging, was fairly smooth, etc. But the decades old engineering doesn't even compare to the latest from BMW. Look at the new M3 with ion sensing knock control, hyperfast DME, etc. You don't need that kind of technology with lower revving high displacement engines. But some people like to own more cutting edge technology cars. And yes, you can slap turbos on just about any type of engine, and exceed the output of your Corvette engine, but that doesn't mean it is advanced in technology. That total advanced engineering is not something you can just slap onto your car. So you can buy an Ariel Atom that will run circles around your Corvette, for just as cheap too. Does that make you want to run out and buy one? Some people believe in crashworthiness, technology, etc. If you just want the best power/weight ratio..go buy a motorcycle. Well, you get the point.

PS: As far as a 335i not being able to put down 400RWHP and get 29-30MPG, its probably not a far-fetched possibility in the near future. The main advantage the Corvette would have is its light weight..due to it being a small 2 seat sports car. I would be willing to bet that the BMW one series, by the end of next year, will be easy to modify to run with a stock 06-07 C6, with no loss in drivability whatsoever. And still get 29+ MPG. And it CAN seat 4 people. And the International Engine Of The Year Award: Oh yeah, thats probably something just given out by some folks that don't know a thing about engines or technology? (Even though it is an international panel.)

Don't get me wrong, BMW has put a lot of time into designing those motors and they have come up with some excellent ideas, my point is what the LS1/2/3 and your old GN motor (GM small blocks in general) show it that you don't have to do all that to be successful for long periods of time. It's good that "its probably not a far-fetched possibility in the near future" for the 335 to be at those levels, but others are already there and have been for some time with less "technologically advanced" platforms. Again, sometimes over-engineering or over-thinking things can be have a negative side and cause people to not see the simple answer to a complicated question as being a good answer. Sometimes the simpler way proves to be the best in the long-term, just look at a toaster.

As far as the 1-series goes, unless it goes on a diet and loses some weight and finds some HP before it hits dealership, it's going to be about 100-200 lbs and 80-100 HP short of giving a C6 any problems. BMW seems to be screwing up a nice opportunity with the 135 but it will probably outrun a stock 335i with the same motor. Isn't it funny similar circumstances appear when you least expect it, 2 different cars, same motor, one heavier then the other, sounds alot like a Vette and a GTO doesn't it?

The International Engine of the Year award is a great catch but it really nothing more that marketing material and it means a lot more in Europe than the U.S. Go stop 10 people on the street and see how many of them give a shit about the N54 winning it or even know what the N54 is. Outside of BMW enthusiasts no one really cares. That doesn't take away from it's worth to BMW, it's a harsh reality of life.

The cue BMW really needs to take for a company like GM is how to keep improving their core performance cars with out turning them into bigger and bigger pigs every round. Take the M3 for example, look at all the weight it has put on over the years. My '07 C6 weighs less than a '66 Corvette from 30 years ago, is faster, built better, and has a lot more goodies in it. Just think of what the current M3 would be capable of if BMW would have taken the same approach to vehicle weight.

[speedfreak81]

Originally Posted by hotrod182

Okay..if that is true, then how come at Famosa/Bakersfield, which is about 600Ft above sea level...78F day...the non-supercharged GTOs that were there were only running mid 13's, about the same as my stock 06 M3? And my stock 335i runs just a fast at sea level, and faster than my M3 at higher elevations. A procede 335i almost ran a 13 Flat, and would run away from any of the non-supercharged GTOs there that day. And yes, you can say, well you can mod you GTO to do that with very little $$, but can you really mod it, with $1300, not make it any louder, total sleeper, and still get 29-30mpg on the highway? It might be hard because it just doesn't have the high tech direct injection, piezo injectors, dual variable camshaft timing, 6 spd steptronic trans that can shift faster than 90% of the GTOs out there( I have the acceleration graphs)..etc...etc.
Bottom line, is there is a lot more technology in the 335i engine that the GTO engines simply can't match. That is why the 335i engine just won International Engine Of The Year. Not because it is just some huge displacement high horsepower engine...but because of the technology, and the way it goes about making its horsepower efficiently. You see, this is the kind of thing that you pay for when you purchase a new BMW.

I don't know how often you go to the track, but here are the results from my visit to Bakersfield. As you can see the NA GTOs are running around mid 13's. Close to what my M3 is running. Sure, I have run 107mph in my M3 before, but this is comparing these cars at the same track, same day. I can assure you, none of the GTOs would touch 109mph. And the Procede 335i sedan would have walked away from any of those GTOs. My stock M3 is highlighted, as are the GTOs, and the Procede 335i. And those GTO owners that think they walk away from M3s all the time, may be running against M3s like the ones that are (A second slower) achieving 14.5's at the track. The M3s are just as challenging to drive down the 1/4 mile with their low torque, peaky powerbands. If anyone else takes their 335i BMWs to the track, see how the GTOs are performing compared to your cars and let us know.

10.67@126.28 White C5 Vette
11.71@122.28 White Mustang Early 2000s
11.84@117.87 White Firebird
12.80@116.56 Red Mustang late 90s
12.90@115.22 Blue M3 S/chg
12.24@113.76 Black GTO
12.39@112.40 Dark Evo
12.16@111.84 Ford Lightning Truck
12.16@111.28 Red Mustang Early 2000s
12.11@111.27 Red Mustang Early 2000s
12.04@111.51 White Evo
12.18@111.30 Black Evo
13.07@109.59 Black Mustang Mid 80s
13.13@107.83 Black C5 Vette
13.03@107.60 Blue Procede 335i13.42@107.29 Grey M3
13.95@107.66 Silver Supra Turbo
13.75@106.81 Black Procede 335i
12.66@106.79 Red Celica Mid 2000s
13.28@106.58 Black Z28..SS?
13.21@106.44 Blue Procede 335ia
13.36@105.73 Red Z28
13.59@105.68 Grey Camaro SS
13.49@105.02 Silver GTO
13.51@104.88 Grey GTO
13.94@104.85 Neon SRT4
12.86@104.60 Red Z28
12.69@104.45 Blue 4dr Civic Mid 90's
13.66@104.29 Black Neon SRT4
13.55@104.14 White M3 SMG
14.28@103.77 Black Mustang Gt New
13.73@103.53 Black M3
13.86@103.22 Black M3
13.07@103.25 Silver EVO
13.74@102.71 White Mustang Gt. early 2000
14.58@102.40 Grey M3
13.52@101.91 White Late Model Silverado PU.
14.32@101.69 Grey M3 w/pass
13.72@101.66 Grey M3
14.07@101.27 Grey Civic Coupe Mid 90s
14.62@101.21 Dodge Charger SRT8 New.
13.95@100.94 Green Z28 Conv.
14.15@99.81 Grey Mustang Gt Early 2000
14.16@99.72 2006 Audi S4
14.08@99.12 White Firebird
13.58@98.79 Neon SRT4 w/CF hood
14.22@97.99 Red Ford Lightning Truck
14.70@97.59 White S2000
14.69@97.53 Silver Mustang GT early 2000
14.73@97.42 Silver 350Z
14.44@97.28 Grey VW Sedan
14.59@97.24 Grey Honda CRX
16.79@97.11 Red Firebird
14.11@96.53 Blue Evo
16.42@95.97 Blue Corvette C4
14.60@94.88 Silver Acura RSX
14.85@94.86 97 Civic Coupe
14.65@93.87 Grey Buick Regal S/chg
16.18@93.71 Pink Civic Coupe Mid 90s
14.97@93.69 Yellow Civic Coupe
15.57@93.14 White Chevy Colbalt
15.82@91.38 Red Chevy Silverado
15.03@91.28 Red Chevy Silverado
15.31@90.84 Grey Pontiac Bonneville SSEI
15.93@90.45 Red 240SX
16.49@85.51 Black Civic Coupe mid90s
16.67@83.34 Grey Cougar..~2002
18.02@83.92 Red Civic Coupe Mid 90s

Well you were there, and if that's what the GTOs were running then that's what they were running...end of story. I will say, those trap speeds are REALLY low for a 6spd 05+ GTO, are you sure they weren't automatic cars?

Also, you don't need to preach about the technology of the motor in your car and how it's so much more sophisticated than the american pushrod V8. Was anyone debating which motor was better engineered?

I'll let the cat out of the bag right now. After tonight I will have difinitive results of what a properly driven 6 speed 06+ GTO will do against a PROcede 335i. Matt (Sniz) and I are meeting up tonight for some runs, and they will be on video to document. We'll start a new thread with the results and video footage.

[speedfreak81]

Originally Posted by Walked U

Hhaha hey whats up speedfreak.

Seems like im seeing you more and more on bmw forums.

haha what's up man. Yeah, I'm all over the place.....what can I say, I love you bimmer boys!

Matt (Sniz) and I are racing tonight, so look for a thread with vids of my stock GTO vs. his Procede 335 in the coming days.

[Walked U]

Originally Posted by speedfreak81

haha what's up man. Yeah, I'm all over the place.....what can I say, I love you bimmer boys!

Matt (Sniz) and I are racing tonight, so look for a thread with vids of my stock GTO vs. his Procede 335 in the coming days.

Hahah awesome man be safe.


When i get my car back from the fabrocator ill have to start putting up some more videos also, havent done that in ages.

[Doc GTO]

My race weight with me in the car is 3815 and that's with a full nitrous tank, supercharger and full interior. I have done some dieting but it is mostly out of view of the eye. Just for math purposes, I weigh 180.

[hotrod182]

Originally Posted by Carnage

Don't get me wrong, BMW has put a lot of time into designing those motors and they have come up with some excellent ideas, my point is what the LS1/2/3 and your old GN motor (GM small blocks in general) show it that you don't have to do all that to be successful for long periods of time. It's good that "its probably not a far-fetched possibility in the near future" for the 335 to be at those levels, but others are already there and have been for some time with less "technologically advanced" platforms. Again, sometimes over-engineering or over-thinking things can be have a negative side and cause people to not see the simple answer to a complicated question as being a good answer. Sometimes the simpler way proves to be the best in the long-term, just look at a toaster.

As far as the 1-series goes, unless it goes on a diet and loses some weight and finds some HP before it hits dealership, it's going to be about 100-200 lbs and 80-100 HP short of giving a C6 any problems. BMW seems to be screwing up a nice opportunity with the 135 but it will probably outrun a stock 335i with the same motor. Isn't it funny similar circumstances appear when you least expect it, 2 different cars, same motor, one heavier then the other, sounds alot like a Vette and a GTO doesn't it?

The International Engine of the Year award is a great catch but it really nothing more that marketing material and it means a lot more in Europe than the U.S. Go stop 10 people on the street and see how many of them give a shit about the N54 winning it or even know what the N54 is. Outside of BMW enthusiasts no one really cares. That doesn't take away from it's worth to BMW, it's a harsh reality of life.

The cue BMW really needs to take for a company like GM is how to keep improving their core performance cars with out turning them into bigger and bigger pigs every round. Take the M3 for example, look at all the weight it has put on over the years. My '07 C6 weighs less than a '66 Corvette from 30 years ago, is faster, built better, and has a lot more goodies in it. Just think of what the current M3 would be capable of if BMW would have taken the same approach to vehicle weight.

I know what you mean by the dieting. But most cars, from an old Corolla to a new one. have gained so much weight. Heck, I have a Chevy Citation X-11 in my garage (Ever hear of one of those?). That thing is so roomy, big hatchback. Fiberglass, cowl induction hood from the factory, etc. That car only weighs like 2700Lbs. I got a trailer hitch on it, and used to tow all my DJ equipment around! I think most of the weight gain has to do with safety mainly. I mean the cars are a little bigger, but weigh a lot more in many cases. Look at the new Scion XB, the thing gained over 15% in weight, as many new cars have. And your right about simple engineering in the long run..it will be better to have generally for reliability. So if I were buying a used 10yr old sports car, the small block Chevy would be ideal. All that electronic, dual variable cams, direct injections, high pressure fuel pumps..etc...are great to have when the car is under warranty, but not so great when the car is older, and the warranty runs out. But some people like owning new high tech stuff, and BMW is one of those companies that prides itself on being at the forefront of automotive technology. Remember, the 5.0 Liter BMW engine puts out more than the 6 liter Chevy Corvette engine. And in fact, it takes a 7.0L V8 from GM to have the same output. And for a normally aspirated 3.2L M3 to run so close to a 6.0L V8, is pretty impressive anyways. 400Hp out of a 6.0L is pretty good, but Dodge does it also, with their 6.1L putting out 425HP. Oh, the SRT8 Charger at Famosa, and LACR didn't stand a chance against my M3 or 335i, on those particular days. The owner was hoping to see 12's, but he ran low to mid 14s. Anyways, can't wait to see the Video on the Procede 335i vs SpeedFreak's GTO. Does the GTO has any mods at all?? Whats the elevation, temps there? Of course I know how fast a GTO CAN be. Like I said, my coworker has a APS twin turbo GTO, that is putting about down about 625RWHP (compared to around 435 RWHP for a ZO6). I do like his set up, the exhaust is quieter than ever now with the twin turbos. And the damn kit was only about $6K or so.

[sflgator]

Originally Posted by hotrod182

I know what you mean by the dieting. But most cars, from an old Corolla to a new one. have gained so much weight. Heck, I have a Chevy Citation X-11 in my garage (Ever hear of one of those?). That thing is so roomy, big hatchback. Fiberglass, cowl induction hood from the factory, etc. That car only weighs like 2700Lbs. I got a trailer hitch on it, and used to tow all my DJ equipment around! I think most of the weight gain has to do with safety mainly. I mean the cars are a little bigger, but weigh a lot more in many cases. Look at the new Scion XB, the thing gained over 15% in weight, as many new cars have. And your right about simple engineering in the long run..it will be better to have generally for reliability. So if I were buying a used 10yr old sports car, the small block Chevy would be ideal. All that electronic, dual variable cams, direct injections, high pressure fuel pumps..etc...are great to have when the car is under warranty, but not so great when the car is older, and the warranty runs out. But some people like owning new high tech stuff, and BMW is one of those companies that prides itself on being at the forefront of automotive technology. Remember, the 5.0 Liter BMW engine puts out more than the 6 liter Chevy Corvette engine. And in fact, it takes a 7.0L V8 from GM to have the same output. And for a normally aspirated 3.2L M3 to run so close to a 6.0L V8, is pretty impressive anyways. 400Hp out of a 6.0L is pretty good, but Dodge does it also, with their 6.1L putting out 425HP. Oh, the SRT8 Charger at Famosa, and LACR didn't stand a change against my M3 or 335i, on those particular days. The owner was hoping to see 12's, but he ran low to mid 14s. Anyways, can't wait to see the Video on the Procede 335i vs SpeedFreak's GTO. Does the GTO has any mods at all?? Whats the elevation, temps there? Of course I know how fast a GTO CAN be. Like I said, my coworker has a APS twin turbo GTO, that is putting about down about 625RWHP (compared to around 435 RWHP for a ZO6). I do like his set up, the exhaust is quieter than ever now with the twin turbos. And the damn kit was only about $6K or so.

I enjoy reading your posts, but just a tip (so more ppl can/will read them), please use paragraphs...I've got a headache just looking at it. Thanks.

[Rangeball]

Hotrod, sounds like you need a RX-7 with a LSx swap.

[scalbert]

Originally Posted by hotrod182

The 335i has half the displacement as the LS2.

Well, at 9 PSI boost it is effectively a 4.9L engine. At the PROcede boost levels it is effectively a 6.0L engine.

Also, the L67 (supercharged GM 3800 engine) was on a top 10 engine list in the late 90's.

Just doting the i's and crossing the t's.

But in the end, I prefer the overall experience of my E92 335i.

[speedfreak81]

Originally Posted by Walked U

Hahah awesome man be safe.


When i get my car back from the fabrocator ill have to start putting up some more videos also, havent done that in ages.

Want to tip a fella off as to what's gettin' done at the fabricator?

[Walked U]

Originally Posted by speedfreak81

Want to tip a fella off as to what's gettin' done at the fabricator?

Sorry I was on my phone. Lol didnt notice I spelt fabricator wrong.

Anyways im just some getting some go fast stuff and custom front bumper ram air ducts, ect.

Ill post pictures of everything and the step taken to get there once i get my car.


I should be getting it next monday on the 13th its been there for a few weeks. Perfect timing because im out of town for a week for work.