[marconi118]

ASR pkease post the tech data of your upgrade:

Water cooling, type of wheels, increase in CFM at 18PSI expected HP etc etc

We in europe are hesitating between your kit and the Turbo Dinamics one

[lamia2super]

Originally Posted by marconi118

ASR pkease post the tech data of your upgrade:

Water cooling, type of wheels, increase in CFM at 18PSI expected HP etc etc

We in europe are hesitating between your kit and the Turbo Dinamics one

why don't you just call him?

[klipseracer]

Originally Posted by TurboSid

who gives some of these idiots enough money to buy bmw's... its like 1+1= 11 with these guys.

I stated this when AR design accused asr of ripping of rd sport... we all know the chra's come from same manufacturer its common sense that they will look similar.

+1million^E

Sadly, not ALL supposed turbo 'manufacturers' know this apparently. Maybe I should provide a link to CHRA from wikipedia...

Originally Posted by marconi118

ASR pkease post the tech data of your upgrade:

Water cooling, type of wheels, increase in CFM at 18PSI expected HP etc etc

We in europe are hesitating between your kit and the Turbo Dinamics one

I think its pretty clear by now, that they prefer to be contacted directly due to accusations and other problems that arise from putting certain information on these forums. Send an email, PM, etc. This thread is dedicated to showing what the ASR upgrade can achieve.

[TurboSid]

Originally Posted by E92Fan

I did last week no reply yet though as I guess they must have been at SEMA

yea probbaly sema.. hopefully they will provide good communication when they get back.

[E92Fan]

Originally Posted by TurboSid

yea probbaly sema.. hopefully they will provide good communication when they get back.

Yes, so hopefully it won't be too much longer.

The BMW turbos have both water lines and oil lines into the bearing housing.

Having studied the pictures of the Racing Dynamics turbos very carefully, Turbo Dynamics have confirmed that those upgraded turbos are 100% only oil cooled. There are NO waterways anywhere on those turbos. What's more those CHRAs appear appear to be from an old T25 diesel unit, hence why there isn't any watercooling on the bearing housing as diesel engines never see exhaust gas temperatures at the same level as a petrol engine

Turbo Dynamics share my concerns over the premature bearing wear on these units, and given the state of the bearings that came out of my turbos which showed a lot of heat soak damage, I struggle to see how the Racing Dynamics turbos will last any length of time, unless they have come up with an alternative cooling solution.

Note that I have only said Racing Dynamics at this point - these comments might be applicable to ASR if they use the same techniques and components.

I have sent emails to both Racing Dynamics and ASR for their comments as I am intrigued to see how RD has overcome this cooling issue and whether ASR have the same design principles.

[OpenFlash]

The lack of water cooling just necessitates a brief cool down period after periods of high boost before shutting off the engine. A synthetic oil which is less prone to breakdown is also adviseble. Following those suggestions, turbo longevity will not be an issue. This comes straight from the lips of Garrett engineers.

Shiv

[E92Fan]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

The lack of water cooling just necessitates a brief cool down period after periods of high boost before shutting off the engine. A synthetic oil which is less prone to breakdown is also adviseble. Following those suggestions, turbo longevity will not be an issue. This comes straight from the lips of Garrett engineers.

Shiv

[TurboSid]

so basically throw in a turbo timer, use synthetic oil and u're good to go.

[klipseracer]

I guess the new 'thing' will be turbo timers... Gosh I thought those things were of the past.

[asr engineering]

Originally Posted by E92Fan

Yes, so hopefully it won't be too much longer.

The BMW turbos have both water lines and oil lines into the bearing housing.

Having studied the pictures of the Racing Dynamics turbos very carefully, Turbo Dynamics have confirmed that those upgraded turbos are 100% only oil cooled. There are NO waterways anywhere on those turbos. What's more those CHRAs appear appear to be from an old T25 diesel unit, hence why there isn't any watercooling on the bearing housing as diesel engines never see exhaust gas temperatures at the same level as a petrol engine

Turbo Dynamics share my concerns over the premature bearing wear on these units, and given the state of the bearings that came out of my turbos which showed a lot of heat soak damage, I struggle to see how the Racing Dynamics turbos will last any length of time, unless they have come up with an alternative cooling solution.

Note that I have only said Racing Dynamics at this point - these comments might be applicable to ASR if they use the same techniques and components.

I have sent emails to both Racing Dynamics and ASR for their comments as I am intrigued to see how RD has overcome this cooling issue and whether ASR have the same design principles.

The Engineers at Garrett didn't start building turbos yesterday. The CHRA they designed and we use, does not use water to cool the bearing housing. The CHRA has a specific fin design around the bearing housing to disipate heat and keep it cooler. This is the same technology used for Ceramic bearing housings that also do not use water. This is a new technology that Garrett offers and Mitsubishi does not use. It's commonly known that Mistubushi bearings and bearing housing can not even come close to competing with Garrett's technology. Just because you had bearing failure on your stock turbos because of heat, does not put Garrrett's product in the same category because it doesn't use water.

[E92Fan]

Originally Posted by asr engineering

The Engineers at Garrett didn't start building turbos yesterday. The CHRA they designed and we use, does not use water to cool the bearing housing. The CHRA has a specific fin design around the bearing housing to disipate heat and keep it cooler. This is the same technology used for Ceramic bearing housings that also do not use water. This is a new technology that Garrett offers and Mitsubishi does not use. It's commonly known that Mistubushi bearings and bearing housing can not even come close to competing with Garrett's technology. Just because you had bearing failure on your stock turbos because of heat, does not put Garrrett's product in the same category because it doesn't use water.

There's no need for the defensive and slightly patronising attitude my friend

I think everyone understands that my question about water cooling was a) genuine, and b) borne out of concern for longevity. No one is attacking the viability of the ASR or Racing Dynamics turbos, merely querying the long-term reliability of the unit and waiting for an appropriate answer, that Shiv and yourself have now given us. Thank you for clearing this up.

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by klipseracer

I guess the new 'thing' will be turbo timers... Gosh I thought those things were of the past.

No, the new thing will be what most people already do after driving their car HARD and before shutting it down. And that is waiting for 10 seconds or so for the turbos to slow down. It's a good practice for all the other bits in the engine that don't particularly like being shut down while being at high temp

Shiv

[E92Fan]

Originally Posted by jpsimon

asr has every right to be defensive, they have had to deal with some of the most ridiculous arguments known to man earlier on.

That's a separate issue though isn't it? I've seen the ridiculous arguments thrown about here, and I've deleted many, infracted others, and always argued in favour of ASR and against the detractors.

I asked a genuine, and I think very reasonable, question ?

Anyway, the information has been given so no worries here.

Incidentally, Racing Dynamics sent me a nice email back just a second ago, which included this little snippet -


"The Garrett CHRA has no water cooling. The shaft is longer and thicker, and the assembly itself only spins up to 225K rather than the 350K of the OE units, so we do not deem it necessary [to have water cooling] on this application."

[klipseracer]

Yep, lets keep this going forward please not sideways

Originally Posted by E92Fan

I struggle to see how the Racing Dynamics turbos will last any length of time, unless they have come up with an alternative cooling solution.

Some SLIGHT offense may be taken by ASR considering they've repetitively mentioned they've done their homework. Not necessary to be stated as it was, however I can understand the reply based off a comment like above. Going back to this MAY feel like moving backwards instead of forward with their statements. Also considering the nature of most, not all comments or said, 'queries' directed at ASR, I can see their defensive stance.

I think ASR is just trying to reiterate that they wouldn't sell a POS product after having said multiple times they've done the R&D. This may be strange to some of us considering some of our vendor company. This is only a good thing!!!!

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

No, the new thing will be what most people already do after driving their car HARD and before shutting it down. And that is waiting for 10 seconds or so for the turbos to slow down. It's a good practice for all the other bits in the engine that don't particularly like being shut down while being at high temp

Shiv

Yes, I suppose you are 100% correct.

[E92Fan]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

No, the new thing will be what most people already do after driving their car HARD and before shutting it down. And that is waiting for 10 seconds or so for the turbos to slow down. It's a good practice for all the other bits in the engine that don't particularly like being shut down while being at high temp

Shiv

Shiv, I think what you meant to say is "what most people already SHOULD do after driving their car..."

You'll be AMAZED at how many people I see do a hot lap of the 'Ring, go straight in the car park and shut the car down. No warm down lap, no letting the car cool off first...

[klipseracer]

Originally Posted by E92Fan

Shiv, I think what you meant to say is "what most people already SHOULD do after driving their car..."

You'll be AMAZED at how many people I see do a hot lap of the 'Ring, go straight in the car park and shut the car down. No warm down lap, no letting the car cool off first...

Yes, I agree 100%. People need to remember that their vehicle is a complex machine that needs to wind down just as much as its important to warm up. Thats would be like putting a knife back in your pocket without closing it first.

[TurboSid]

wait from what i heard the car has a built-in "turbo timer" of sorts that allows the turbos/engine to adequately cool down even after u shut it off? correct me if i'm wrong please.

[Rob@RBTurbo]

Yes, the water pump is supposed to run for some time after shutdown.. which circulates coolant throughout everything.

Originally Posted by TurboSid

wait from what i heard the car has a built-in "turbo timer" of sorts that allows the turbos/engine to adequately cool down even after u shut it off? correct me if i'm wrong please.

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by TurboSid

wait from what i heard the car has a built-in "turbo timer" of sorts that allows the turbos/engine to adequately cool down even after u shut it off? correct me if i'm wrong please.

That is the electric coolant pump you are referring too. It keeps the coolant pumping through the turbo after the engine has been shut off. Since the upgraded turbos don't have coolant lines, it wont do you any good. Just manually do a cooldown and you'll be set.

Shiv

[Alpina_B3_Lux]

Originally Posted by asr engineering

The problem with the people dis-crediting our work is that they have no technical background in actual tooling or maching of turbos to back their claims. Any good turbo machining or manufacturing company will tell you ( Stated also by Turbo Dynamics) that the way our turbos and RD Sports turbos are done, are the only correct way to do a Garrett CHRA with these stock housings. Just because two companies chose to do it the only correct way, all of a sudden one is now copying the other. Then to go further and make claims that the balancing marks are identical. Of course they are, Garrett does that to all their comp and turbine wheels. If these guys making these claims were the least bit educated in the field, they would know that already. All this does is make them look like fools for questioning the validity of our work and further proving the lack of technical knowledge to back their claims.

I absolutely agree with you.

However, I think we should try to look forward now, as I've noticed (and I'm very glad about that) that the thread seems to veer again into a more technique-oriented, factual discussion which is what these forums are here for.

I'm also glad that you decided again to step in here and answer one or the other query about your product, which as you see meets quite some interest of a number of people here. Looking forward to read and learn a bit more!

Alpina_B3_Lux

[TurboSid]

so shutting down the car immediately does not cause negative side effects when using a stock turbo car, correct?

Even when driving hard wouldn't the electric coolant pump be sufficient in allowing the components to cool down?

[klipseracer]

Originally Posted by Alpina_B3_Lux

I absolutely agree with you.

However, I think we should try to look forward now, as I've noticed (and I'm very glad about that) that the thread seems to veer again into a more technique-oriented, factual discussion which is what these forums are here for.

I'm also glad that you decided again to step in here and answer one or the other query about your product, which as you see meets quite some interest of a number of people here. Looking forward to read and learn a bit more!

Alpina_B3_Lux

+1

I can say its not easy to wake the sleepy bear and get him talking again, but we've managed to do it

Now, we just need someone to get serious and lay some dough down... Maybe once my car is running like a champ I can start looking this direction in a more serious way.