[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by lawdude

I'd be thrilled if someone would compare the specs (in technical AND laymans terms please) of each unit. Please do us the honors LOK11atXEDE. I know many of us would be very appreciative.

<--- first opportunity to use that.

[Big Tuna]

There's only one way to settle this.

A walk off.

(zoolander)

[normtrum]

Originally Posted by Big Tuna

There's only one way to settle this.

A walk off.

(zoolander)

ha ha!

"Perhaps I could be of service" (David Bowie)

[Terry335]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

<--- first opportunity to use that.

I quoted his post from a few weeks ago. No response?

[DanMardik]

Vishnu is in a completely different category in comparison to AA.
If you want the real deal you will make the right choice and go with someone as knowledgable as Shiv. Shivs work has been tried and tested, not only with his previous projects but as well as his ongoing. I've just recently heard of AA and they still have a long ways to go in my book. Not only in technicalities but in PR in general. This thread shows nothing but negative class toward AA and quite honestly, my money's on Shiv.

Let me make it easy for all of you. Would you rather buy leather shoes, pay a bit more money and have them last you a couple of years? or would you rather buy some chinese made vynil shoes from Pay-Less, wear them for two months and have the threads start coming apart.

It's your choice. Make the right decision.

[WilyB]

Well, my $0.02 are that the Aussies were not satisfied with the amount of XEDE sales in the ricer market and thought that Shiv’s development work in the BMW market was promising.

They probably also assumed that established BMW tuners would be able to push more XEDE on the market.

Most contracts require 90 days notice. Shiv probably got a registered mail on 1 October 06 that got him to look for a new more potent hardware: PROcede.

Meanwhile, the Aussies used whatever Shiv had already done with XEDE and the 335 (why reinvent the wheel?) to speed up their time to market.

I may certainly understand the Aussies’s desire to broaden their customer base. I also understand Shiv’s sourness about these guys using part of his work and at the same time trying to bash him and his team.

Some of the posters here have been very selectively bashing Shiv, and him alone, pretending to be BMW’s employees etc.

That is not cool.

Shiv has always been very factual about his product and about his competitor’s products. Competitors never answered Shiv’s technical posts. The “Our engineers are too busy to post” just does not cut it.

This being said, the plethora of products offered today is great for us customers and I do not see why I should be trying to impose MY choice over anyone else’s (and vice versa).

Let’s all enjoy our TTs, reflashes, AAs, PROcedes etc.

We have many tires to choose from, many exhausts to choose from, and I do not see any animosity over other forumers’ choices.

[normtrum]

Originally Posted by normtrum

I've been reading this shit for hours today. I've got 3 observations, I guess from a non-participant.

1) in regard to Terry's above comment, what the hell do you care?
2) if there is to be anything close to an intelligent conversation on this thread, terry should leave asap.
3) i've read every op, and every thread on this site regarding xede vs procede. My conclusion, shiv, see ya at the Vancouver procede install dyno day.

This is what I'm talking about. Again, refer to #2 above. What if anything, resembles intelligence in this statement?

[BMW335i07]

Originally Posted by Carlito12

does this mean that if I show up to Bimmerfest with cash on hand, I can have the ProCede installed there?

Or do I have to order now for the install there on May 5th?

Thx in Advance.

I read through every post in hopes that Shiv would answer this post. I too will be attending Bimmerfest and would like to have the ProCede install done that day as well. Would you have enough on hand to install or should I pay for it in advance?

As for this debate, I can't understand why Terry is such an A**hole! I was not sure which product I was going to get but after reading his posts I wanted nothing to do with anything he was supporting. :finger:

[OC Guy]

Interesting. Consumers care not about drama, they care about results.

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by BMW335i07

I read through every post in hopes that Shiv would answer this post. I too will be attending Bimmerfest and would like to have the ProCede install done that day as well. Would you have enough on hand to install or should I pay for it in advance?

Yep... we'll be bringing down a few PROcede kits and we will offer free installation at Bimmerfest. They will be available on first come, first serve basis. And we will only be accepting cash that day (no computers handy for cc processing). But if you are interested, I would recommend ordering it beforehand through phone or online order. Just make sure you mention that you're getting it installed at Bimmerfest so we can make the necessary arrangements

As for this debate, I can't understand why Terry is such an A**hole! I was not sure which product I was going to get but after reading his posts I wanted nothing to do with anything he was supporting. :finger:

Ah don't worry about Terry. He's just bitter that I didn't respond to his PM regarding the purchase of a PROcede a few days ago. I think the world would have come to an end if he were to actually have one in his car

shiv

[Terry335]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Ah don't worry about Terry. He's just bitter that I didn't respond to his PM regarding the purchase of a PROcede a few days ago. I think the world would have come to an end if he were to actually have one in his car
shiv

Heh I think it worked out for the best.

I can see the excuses now... "Sure, Xede owner, you just beat my procede car by three car lengths, but at least I have more I/O options!".

[bmwzimmer]

Originally Posted by Terry335

Heh I think it worked out for the best.

I can see the excuses now... "Sure, Xede owner, you just beat my procede car by three car lengths, but at least I have more I/O options!".

3 car lengths? WOW, where did you pull that number from? That's why people are starting to complain about you...

[Calvin@Vishnu]

Originally Posted by Terry335

I can see the excuses now... "Sure, Xede owner, you just beat my procede car by three car lengths, but at least I have more I/O options!".

Ohh my... watch out...
The happy face at the end makes a comment friendly

[Carlito12]

Originally Posted by Terry335

Heh I think it worked out for the best.

I can see the excuses now... "Sure, Xede owner, you just beat my procede car by three car lengths, but at least I have more I/O options!".

Terry335:

have u installed it?

how does it drive?

compared to stock? I 'd like to know what u think.

For everyone else that has Xede/ProCede:

I have about a week before deciding between the Xede and ProCede.

So far, this is my opinion:

Xede - Less expensive. Programed by great BMW turbo-tuners at AA on an older hardware (but not necessarily outdated) based on Shiv's work. Did i mention less expensive (especially in Cali) ?

ProCede - Allows for further upgrades and user-refinements. Tuned by a great software engineer Shiv. Loved and supported by many fellow 335i owners.

I am not concerned with the after-sale support from either AA or Vishnu.

I know AA is a reputable company, already.

And based on all the Pro-ProCeders @ this forum, I feel like I can trust Vishnu, too.

So my decision will be based on (random order) the:
1) Price
2) Ease of Installation / Trouble Shooting
3) Overall performance
4) Overall drivability

Now, I'll just sit here and enjoy the show...

[jon@themshop]

Originally Posted by Calvin@Vishnu

Ohh my... watch out...
The happy face at the end makes a comment friendly

Hi Calvin!

Please check your PM box.

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by bmwzimmer

3 car lengths? WOW, where did you pull that number from? That's why people are starting to complain about you...

He pulled it out of the usual place he pulls things from. I don't even think he has an Xede yet... lol.

shiv

[LOK11atXEDE]

Originally Posted by lawdude

I'd be thrilled if someone would compare the specs (in technical AND laymans terms please) of each unit. Please do us the honors LOK11atXEDE. I know many of us would be very appreciative.

Ok well let's start with the layman's perspective then (with some technical explanation):

Two units: XEDE and PROcede - both:
Intercept the CAS (Crank Angle Signal) used by the primary (BMW) ECU to determine when engine events occur relative to the "Bang" of combustion that makes the torque and power of petrol combustion. The signal is modified in order to make ignition timing adjustments that are needed to safely accommodate increased cylinder filling (with air) from higher boost pressure.

and Intercept the load measuring analogue signals TMAP etc. to increase the boost pressure (in a similar way to the part the "Turbo Tuner" does);

and drive directly or intercept and modify the PWM (Pulse Wide Modulated) signals supplied to the wastegate control solenoid valves (More important ways to provide a stable increase in boost pressure);

and bias the wide band AFR signals in order to achieve changes to the prescribed AFR (fuel mixture) to sustain stable temperature control on the engine and turbo components exposed to high temperatures with the increased power and torque;

Optionally (for both XEDE and PROcede), a frequency signal like a VSS (vehicle speed sensor) signal can be intercepted to provide a limited output at say 128mph for a car with a 130mph speed limit in order to prevent speed cutout.

And, theoretically, AFAIK from the PROcede, you could drive the Dual VANOS solenoids or intercept the CAM sensors in order to achieve changes in the Cam timing. (I still have never seen any tangible improvement at all, by changing the VANOS on a 335 engine)

They both do all of that exactly the same. The next bit is more difficult to quantify as I can argue that Vishnu is slowly getting the programmers at Haltech to get the PROcede software to do all the things that the XEDE software already has with conditional and delta-time controls over timing etc. and Shiv at Vishnu can argue that he did it first with the XEDE and that AA and ChipTorque are using his early development to get the software to produce his old results. Sour grapes or BS - unsubstantiated claims - blah blah blah.

In my personal opinion, that's where all the BS starts (thanks Dan for your vote of confidence) because I'm a techo at heart and I don't go for the spin and hype versions that infest forums like this.

My slant on improving the power of your car goes like this:

Will it do the task I require effectively and reliably?
Can I acquire it easily and fit it or have it installed easily?
Will it or I be supported professionally if there is a difficulty with my individual vehicle or an upgrade needed in the future?

Answer these questions and buy the appropriate product.
The rest really is BS!!!!
In MNSHO, get an XEDE
in Shiv's NSHO, get a PROcede
and I'd suggest, in Jeff's opinion, get a "Turbo Tuner"

Is that clear and factual enough for everyone?

Cheers

Lachlan Riddel
Technical Director
www.xede.com.au

[BHairsto]

Originally Posted by BMW335i07

As for this debate, I can't understand why Terry is such an A**hole! I was not sure which product I was going to get but after reading his posts I wanted nothing to do with anything he was supporting. :finger:

Wow--you and I think alike After reading through pages and pages of this crap, it has become exceedingly apparent to me that there are a few people in the Xede camp who have a grudge against Shiv and/or are jealous of his accomplishments with regard to tuning this motor and the amount of support he is getting from the 335 community. The behavior has been beyond childish. Shiv will be best served to not dignify some of these comments with a response. His work will speak for itself, as will AA's or anyone else's. I had been leaning towards Shiv's product from the outset, but have been considering the AA product, given their reputation and price point. However, this thread has only strengthened my desire to support the hard work that Shiv has put in. I guess I have a soft spot for the 'little guy,' and all other things being relatively equal, I'd rather throw my support Shiv's way, especially in view of what appears to be a witch hunt directed at Shiv.

[ArmyBimmerDude]

Originally Posted by BHairsto

Wow--you and I think alike After reading through pages and pages of this crap, it has become exceedingly apparent to me that there are a few people in the Xede camp who have a grudge against Shiv and/or are jealous of his accomplishments with regard to tuning this motor and the amount of support he is getting from the 335 community. The behavior has been beyond childish. Shiv will be best served to not dignify some of these comments with a response. His work will speak for itself, as will AA's or anyone else's. I had been leaning towards Shiv's product from the outset, but have been considering the AA product, given their reputation and price point. However, this thread has only strengthened my desire to support the hard work that Shiv has put in. I guess I have a soft spot for the 'little guy,' and all other things being relatively equal, I'd rather throw my support Shiv's way, especially in view of what appears to be a witch hunt directed at Shiv.

Thats how it always is bro. Everyone trying to take down the top dog.

As for Terry335 or Terry Burger(brilliant user name), just ignore him. He has never posted anything worth reading and for whatever reason when he's gotten into a debate with Shiv, Terry always gets trumped.

It's obvious that Xede is harboring some serious resentment towards Shiv. Of course, I doubt he really gives a damn.

[Omar@ActiveAutowerke]

Originally Posted by DanMardik

Vishnu is in a completely different category in comparison to AA.
If you want the real deal you will make the right choice and go with someone as knowledgable as Shiv. Shivs work has been tried and tested, not only with his previous projects but as well as his ongoing. I've just recently heard of AA and they still have a long ways to go in my book.

Please do your research.

[Omar@ActiveAutowerke]

Originally Posted by LOK11atXEDE

Ok well let's start with the layman's perspective then (with some technical explanation):

Two units: XEDE and PROcede - both:
Intercept the CAS (Crank Angle Signal) used by the primary (BMW) ECU to determine when engine events occur relative to the "Bang" of combustion that makes the torque and power of petrol combustion. The signal is modified in order to make ignition timing adjustments that are needed to safely accommodate increased cylinder filling (with air) from higher boost pressure.

and Intercept the load measuring analogue signals TMAP etc. to increase the boost pressure (in a similar way to the part the "Turbo Tuner" does);

and drive directly or intercept and modify the PWM (Pulse Wide Modulated) signals supplied to the wastegate control solenoid valves (More important ways to provide a stable increase in boost pressure);

and bias the wide band AFR signals in order to achieve changes to the prescribed AFR (fuel mixture) to sustain stable temperature control on the engine and turbo components exposed to high temperatures with the increased power and torque;

Optionally (for both XEDE and PROcede), a frequency signal like a VSS (vehicle speed sensor) signal can be intercepted to provide a limited output at say 128mph for a car with a 130mph speed limit in order to prevent speed cutout.

And, theoretically, AFAIK from the PROcede, you could drive the Dual VANOS solenoids or intercept the CAM sensors in order to achieve changes in the Cam timing. (I still have never seen any tangible improvement at all, by changing the VANOS on a 335 engine)

They both do all of that exactly the same. The next bit is more difficult to quantify as I can argue that Vishnu is slowly getting the programmers at Haltech to get the PROcede software to do all the things that the XEDE software already has with conditional and delta-time controls over timing etc. and Shiv at Vishnu can argue that he did it first with the XEDE and that AA and ChipTorque are using his early development to get the software to produce his old results. Sour grapes or BS - unsubstantiated claims - blah blah blah.

Cheers

Lachlan Riddel
Technical Director
www.xede.com.au

This is the information everyone was waiting for. Thanks for you input Sir. It is good to know we can have support from the Manafacturer as well.

[Motorsports_3]

Originally Posted by DanMardik

Vishnu is in a completely different category in comparison to AA.
If you want the real deal you will make the right choice and go with someone as knowledgable as Shiv. Shivs work has been tried and tested, not only with his previous projects but as well as his ongoing. I've just recently heard of AA and they still have a long ways to go in my book. Not only in technicalities but in PR in general. This thread shows nothing but negative class toward AA and quite honestly, my money's on Shiv.

Let me make it easy for all of you. Would you rather buy leather shoes, pay a bit more money and have them last you a couple of years? or would you rather buy some chinese made vynil shoes from Pay-Less, wear them for two months and have the threads start coming apart.

It's your choice. Make the right decision.

Are you serious? Do you have any knowlege on the topics you speak about, or do come on this thread and just type with your eyes closed?