[tek818]

I think he returned the Turbo Tuner a while before that dyno

[Jonmartin]

Originally Posted by AB Tek 818

I think he returned the Turbo Tuner a while before that dyno

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...49&postcount=1

Maybe but 338lb-ft WTQ/300HP on a stock 335 is a little strage even if dynapacks "read high" supposedly. I don't think they can be that far off or any one car would be that much stronger as a factory freak. Plus look at his graph waaaaay different from a stock 335 tourqe graph which looks alot flatter then that. Anyway congrats on the xede enjoy.



The blue line on this one shows a stock toure curve although hard to see.I'll find more later.



This graph also shows Procede/TT/stock graphs in one.As you can see the stock tourque line doesn't look anything like his.

[tek818]

that dyno is messed up... there is no way he is getting peak torque at 2800rpm.

[Walked U]

Originally Posted by AB Tek 818

that dyno is messed up... there is no way he is getting peak torque at 2800rpm.

stock 335i's get peak torque around 1500 rpms and hold it for around 5k rpms before it falls.

[Jonmartin]

Originally Posted by AB Tek 818

that dyno is messed up... there is no way he is getting peak torque at 2800rpm.

It's not messed up it just proves the point he was tuned, it wasn't a "blip: either.BTW stock 335's make peak at ~1400RPM

[tek818]

I stand corrected. Definitely interesting...

[CassiesMan]

I've been following this for a while, and I do have to say...its nice to see a good old fashioned tuner war going on. Personally, I'm leaning more towards AA as I was about to purchase an AA turbo'd M3 not to long ago, and I've been a fan of theirs for a while. However, it is nice to see Shiv getting into the game, but I've often heard (and I'm now seeing) that he tends to have...people issues. Of course, when it comes to tuning, I really don't care if your a people person or not, nor how you get the job done, as long as it gets done.

I have to give it up to AA, they have the actual track time. I haven't seen, do any PROcede owners have track times yet? Thats what really matters. A dynograph is just some meaningless numbers. And who cares how many I/Os the XEDE/PROcede has? I wanna see actual real world numbers in the form of time slips and lap times.

Also, this thread has provided many a fun study break from the paper I'm writting.

[lawdude]

Originally Posted by CassiesMan

Also, this thread has provided many a fun study break from the paper I'm writting.

I hope your writting is spell checked.

[OpenFlash]

"Jon F" or whoever you really are-- When have we failed to bring something that we promised to market? And do you really believe that providing map updates as time marches by as proof of poor quality control? Lots of strange opinions and conclusions for someone who has 13 posts (nearly all anti-PROcede related), 6 days of forum membership and no 335i ownership to his name.

CassiesMan-- If you go to dragtimes.com, you'll see a few time slips from PROcede cars (the two highest trap speeds, in fact). So far, our kit has been tested by ourselves, a number of customers all over the world and by car magazines. Both on drag strips and on actual race track (12 Hr endurance race of Bathurst being the most recent). I don't think that any other product has been as independantly tested. And this does not mention the 150 or so cars we've personally and publically tested, all across the US during dyno days, using independantly owned and operated dynos. Admittedly, being first to market gave us the headstart in this respect.

Regards,
shiv

[e.n335]

Hi

I would say I tend to be objective ( which is not easy all the time ) and have to do fact-based decisions every day.

Let me try a comparison as a part of the review ( based on my knowledge as of today ):

AA/XEde:

- Company size ( risk reduction ) 1
- Good overall reputation & BMW tuning experience 1
- Customer support 1
- Customer experience 0
- Quality/Functionality 1
- Different stages available 0
- Load & stress testing 0
- Update strategy 0
- Introductory pricing 1

AA/XEde total: 5 pts

PROcede:

- Company size ( risk reduction ) 0
- Good overall reputation & broader tuning experience 1
- Customer support 1
- Customer experience 1
- Quality/Functionality 1
- Different stages available 1
- Load & stress testing 1
- Update strategy 1
- Introductory pricing 0

PROcede total: 7 pts

Assuming that the AA/XEde introductory pricing will not be forever, a clear decision.

Did I miss something ?

Cheers
Eugen

[j|rz44]

All i can say is that i stayed at a Holiday Inn once +1

Gl

[e.n335]

Originally Posted by jmramos44

All i can say is that i stayed at a Holiday Inn once +1

Gl

wow

[trickydick]

Originally Posted by 335e90

AA harness doesn't need tape- whoop-de-do!

+1,

[BHairsto]

Originally Posted by Terry335

It's OK to say you're staying with Shiv because he was here first and you like his style, but that doesn't mean his product is better. AA and others are putting out great products now, most of which are priced lower and are more readily available. Just do your own research and don't get too caught up in forum hype.

From my perspective, it's not getting caught up in the hype--it's rewarding the pioneer in this application--the one who at least appears to have been the most enthusiastic about developing for the platform from day 1. That's all. IMO, just as much hype is being created by those who have some type of personal agenda against Vishnu.

[Omar@ActiveAutowerke]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Omar-- with all due respect, I don't have to convince anyone of anything. Against my better judgement, I'm just going to state the facts (all of which are easily supported by evidence):

-AA immediately started soliciting my customers after our South Florida dyno day to leave their cars with them so you can see what we did to make those power gains. Am I wrong? I'll be happy to PM you names if you want me to refresh your memory.

-AA failing to bring to market an ECU reflash that they were working on diligently. Even your beta tester, rflow, stated a couple of weeks ago that he is looking forward to remove the Xede in favor of your ECU reflash that you guys are still working on. I can find the link to his post if you'd like.

-Chiptorque (xede manufacturer) actively soliciting me and my employees for 335i mapping, firmware, and Xede set-up data (presumably for you). Even after we abandoned further development of the Xede in favor of the PROcede. I have emails and I'll be happy to post them if this becomes a point of argument.



That's an awesome idea. Running a stand alone with a factory computer. Unfortunately, I did that ~10 years ago and documented it in print. And I don't recall ever patting myself on the back for being the first to do it (that I know of, at least)
http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/pr..._xi/index.html



No, but being ignorant always is. I'm guessing you're not one of the people who have been at AA for 25 years. Sounds like you are a reasonably young, energetic newcomer. And God bless you. You play a vital role in any business. But be careful when it comes to writing checks you can't cash. Because when your misplaced claims and taunts are answered with silence, it doesn't necessary mean that you are winning. Instead, it usually means that your target is deciding whether or not to tear open a super-sized bag of whoopass. In this case, you got a value meal. But keep it up and things may change.

Before you hit that Reply button with what you believe to be a convincing argument or thoughtful retort, I highly encourage you to stop, take a few breathes and confer with your employer.

Shiv

Shiv in all honesty I apologize for even stepping down to this level. I have known about for quite sometime now and I have heard only good things about you. Even when I started on this forum it was the same thing, then I realized that you do not welcome competition instead you attack it to keep your name. I can go back and forth with you all day but it would be an injustice to your customers. I will allow you to get back to your harnesses and Interceptor development.

You only address certain points that you feel favor you and I dont see the need for me to reply to this nonsense. As far as that infamous customer you are referring to I have no comment and YES I would love for you to refresh my memory however you like.. via PM or publicly.

Remember the Car & Driver challenge a couple years back when we were the two "small" companies making a name for ourselves, not once did we think you would behave in this matter towards AA, Jeff, Turner , or any other competitors for that matter. You have a good following here and you should treat this group good.

Shiv you missed the point regarding the standalone, trust me we were doing it 10 years ago to. I think anyone could have done it 10 years ago.

Remember your days with Buschur and those guys, your true colors shined there as well and that is when your reputation went downhill with those guys. How does a Vendor get temporarily banned from a forum they sponsor?

It is no secret that we are "diligently" working on an ECU flash that we will incorporate into our Xede program so we dont leave our customers stranded.

As far as your threat regarding your value meal that is rather amusing. I am inviting you to send over the main course, supersized of course.... Please read above before you make that decision.......

Lastly Shiv and the other members that mentioned this, do not think for once that I will not comment on a lie or indirect attack from either another company or member on any forum. I have met a ton of people here in person and have spoken to many on the phone and I am honest, no need for me to be fake with anyone. Thanks for your time and have a good day.

[Omar@ActiveAutowerke]

Originally Posted by BHairsto

From my perspective, it's not getting caught up in the hype--it's rewarding the pioneer in this application--the one who at least appears to have been the most enthusiastic about developing for the platform from day 1. That's all. IMO, just as much hype is being created by those who have some type of personal agenda against Vishnu.

I have to agree with you. Shiv was the first to come to market on the 335, and I must admit that would make him the pioneer in this application.

[Omar@ActiveAutowerke]

Originally Posted by eugen.niederreiter

Hi

I would say I tend to be objective ( which is not easy all the time ) and have to do fact-based decisions every day.

Let me try a comparison as a part of the review ( based on my knowledge as of today ):

AA/XEde:

- Company size ( risk reduction ) 1
- Good overall reputation & BMW tuning experience 1
- Customer support 1
- Customer experience 0
- Quality/Functionality 1
- Different stages available 0
- Load & stress testing 0
- Update strategy 0
- Introductory pricing 1

AA/XEde total: 5 pts

PROcede:

- Company size ( risk reduction ) 0
- Good overall reputation & broader tuning experience 1
- Customer support 1
- Customer experience 1
- Quality/Functionality 1
- Different stages available 1
- Load & stress testing 1
- Update strategy 1
- Introductory pricing 0

PROcede total: 7 pts

Assuming that the AA/XEde introductory pricing will not be forever, a clear decision.

Did I miss something ?

Cheers
Eugen

Eugen, this is a very interesting post. A couple things should be looked at though. If I am not mistaken our tuning experience is actually much broader than Shiv's and last time I checked he only had one stage available. I think it would be fair to leave those black until its released. Great post though. Just my $.02

[Omar@ActiveAutowerke]

Originally Posted by -Ryan-

AA, can you confirm that the xede will have to be shipped back to you everytime a software upgrade is needed? Are the upgrades free? What about the shipping costs? That could be a big issue when deciding between the two systems.


I don't know if I love or hate the bickering between the two companies but I got to admit it's pretty entertaining.

Hello Ryan,

I understand your concern but with this system there will be no need for a software upgrade. We have made one major software revision since we started selling these boxes and we are yet to have an issue. Software upgrades like that one are covered under warranty. Shipping would also be available at no charge. Our ECU's are all locked because we are selling a product that if used incorrectly can cause damage to your car. We have been doing this for quite sometime and we have had issues years ago with this.

As far as the bickering Ryan I cant stand it but when recieving threats from other Vendors it is pretty entertaining.

[schneid4323]

Originally Posted by Active Autowerke

Eugen, this is a very interesting post. A couple things should be looked at though. If I am not mistaken our tuning experience is actually much broader than Shiv's and last time I checked he only had one stage available. I think it would be fair to leave those black until its released. Great post though. Just my $.02

I personally could care less if its broder..... What does that matter when you are both tunning the same engine?

[PresaMat]

Originally Posted by Walked U

... Say what? Laymen terms please

Its like looking at the insides of a 20 year old computer versus todays high end computers.

[schneid4323]

Also I would like to add that updating is important (Also its nice to be able to do it by yourself) to take full advantage of aftermarket mods (Others such as exhaust) and what if BMW redesigns there POS fuel pump to meet a different fuel demand? (Why would I not want to take advantage of any BMW recalls?)

[Omar@ActiveAutowerke]

Originally Posted by schneid4323

I personally could care less if its broder..... What does that matter when you are both tunning the same engine?

Eugen mentioned it Sir, I was simply correcting him.