[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by vase330

Ok Shiv, sorry didn't realize you were referring to PROCede. I have edit it. I didn't want to imply anything by that, and as I stated, it was on map 0. Reason is people know I have it, I didn't want to start getting called out when I knew it was not a factor.

As far as detonation, what dealer said is there were a few codes indicating a few events of sudden lean conditions that the dealer believes led to detonation and said that is what I felt. This was not a stutter, it was a violent noisy and physically jolting event all 3 times it happened. They told me that before they ever pulled anything on the car because the codes were the first thing they checked for.

lol..oh i know you didn't imply anything. It's more for those people with selective reading skills

Glad you are up and running!

shiv

[dbudh001]

heart was in my mouth reading this ,
i feel it for you, glad to see it all worked out, 1600 really is chump change compared to what it COULD HAVE cost you! ....be happy the stealership was at least half smart - ud be surprised at the number of botched jobs they do
made me scared and nervous - ive had my lpfp and hpfp changed -...
anyway we can proactively check for remnants of anything to cause a clog ?

[vase330]

Originally Posted by dbudh001

heart was in my mouth reading this ,
i feel it for you, glad to see it all worked out, 1600 really is chump change compared to what it COULD HAVE cost you! ....be happy the stealership was at least half smart - ud be surprised at the number of botched jobs they do
made me scared and nervous - ive had my lpfp and hpfp changed -...
anyway we can proactively check for remnants of anything to cause a clog ?

I don't know that there is anything we can do about that other hope. Best thing is no one goes in to do anything in the first place, causing related issues you didn't already have, but the stupid pumps wont hold up on some of our cars.

[tscdennab]

Originally Posted by vase330

As far as detonation, what dealer said is there were a few codes indicating a few events of sudden lean conditions that the dealer believes led to detonation and said that is what I felt.

Well, of course it's lean when there is no fuel coming

[J02 335i]

Glad you got it fixed. Im sure your not to worried about it now, but I find it very hard to believe the regulator was clogged especially with only 32k. In all my years of being a tech I have never seen this, I have never even seen a clogged fuel filter. Cars nowadays run such high fuel pressure that it's nearly impossible for a component of the fuel system to get clogged.

Back in the day of carbureted engines and 4 psi of fuel pressure it happened all the time. Anyways I'm sure your not worried about this now. But I still believe they dicked up your HPFP install the last time the car was in.

One more thing, did they show you the old regulator? What clogged it? I'd be very curious.

[mike the snake]

I think I read that you said this happened at low speeds or idle. If the car detonated at low speed, then the engine may have bucked back, and either in gear or not, if the engine suddenly momentarily stops or bucks back you'll hear the drivetrain clunk or clack, this may have been the noise you heard during this event.

[Tzu]

In for codes and the techs statement.

[RoundelM3]

Originally Posted by matrix76

This whole issue makes you look at the complexity of these cars and then questions WHY do these this even happen. Most other manufacturers do not have these kinds of problems. They advertise them as " The Ultimate Driving Machines" but looking at all the problems it simply shows to me that these cars are NOT up to the task at all. This was a very worrisome for the OP and other following it. Just too many problems and some of them have gone on for years.

Really - you have some documented proof that "most other manufacturers do not have these kinds of problems"? Remember, this is one car that we know of, not every N54-engined BMW. If you want to make this assumption, well, you know what happens when you assume. In the meantime, there are thousands of us who have not had any serious problems with our cars.

One car I had in the past (made by another German automaker) threw a rod bearing at 1,000 miles and they refused to cover it under warranty, then insisted I needed to replace the "long block" at a cost of $8500. I reluctantly agreed to do this so I could get my car back on the road, but I went to arbitration to get the costs covered or reduced. During arbitration, the regional rep for the manufacturer poisoned the conversation by telling the arbitrator (a woman with absolutely no car knowledge at all) that it was incumbent on me to prove it wasn't my fault for "not breaking it in properly" and not on them to prove it was faulty parts or manufacturing. Then, in the course of the discussion, he said that if they had covered the repair, they would have installed a "crankshaft kit" at a cost of about $2K including labor. So clearly the dealer lied to me by being adamant about replacing the long block instead of this relatively inexpensive repair. I ended up losing the case because the arbitrator said "if there was a possibility that the car wasn't driven properly during the break-in period", then it's not the manufacturer's fault. Completely illogical and untrue. At that point, I could have hired a lawyer, but I was in the process of moving and couldn't afford the time and expense, nor could I find a lawyer with automotive warranty experience.

But it gets even better - even with a new engine, the car would suddenly lose power, whether idling or on the road, and had no throttle response at all. Turned out to be a faulty electronic throttle actuator, which they replaced 3 times in 5 weeks. Wouldn't lemon the car, either. A few months later, the car was in an accident with my son driving, and it was totaled, so I didn't have to deal with it any more.

Moral of this long-winded story is count your blessings - it could always be worse, and every manufacturer has its design/quality problems. You just have to widen your focus and get all the facts, not just what you read on some specific-car-oriented internet forum.

[matrix76]

Originally Posted by roundel335

Really - you have some documented proof that "most other manufacturers do not have these kinds of problems"? Remember, this is one car that we know of, not every N54-engined BMW. If you want to make this assumption, well, you know what happens when you assume. In the meantime, there are thousands of us who have not had any serious problems with our cars.

One car I had in the past (made by another German automaker) threw a rod bearing at 1,000 miles and they refused to cover it under warranty, then insisted I needed to replace the "long block" at a cost of $8500. I reluctantly agreed to do this so I could get my car back on the road, but I went to arbitration to get the costs covered or reduced. During arbitration, the regional rep for the manufacturer poisoned the conversation by telling the arbitrator (a woman with absolutely no car knowledge at all) that it was incumbent on me to prove it wasn't my fault for "not breaking it in properly" and not on them to prove it was faulty parts or manufacturing. Then, in the course of the discussion, he said that if they had covered the repair, they would have installed a "crankshaft kit" at a cost of about $2K including labor. So clearly the dealer lied to me by being adamant about replacing the long block instead of this relatively inexpensive repair. I ended up losing the case because the arbitrator said "if there was a possibility that the car wasn't driven properly during the break-in period", then it's not the manufacturer's fault. Completely illogical and untrue. At that point, I could have hired a lawyer, but I was in the process of moving and couldn't afford the time and expense, nor could I find a lawyer with automotive warranty experience.

But it gets even better - even with a new engine, the car would suddenly lose power, whether idling or on the road, and had no throttle response at all. Turned out to be a faulty electronic throttle actuator, which they replaced 3 times in 5 weeks. Wouldn't lemon the car, either. A few months later, the car was in an accident with my son driving, and it was totaled, so I didn't have to deal with it any more.

Moral of this long-winded story is count your blessings - it could always be worse, and every manufacturer has its design/quality problems. You just have to widen your focus and get all the facts, not just what you read on some specific-car-oriented internet forum.

I am off to work right now and do not have time to reply but I'll update this when I get back.

[David1]

Originally Posted by roundel335

Really - you have some documented proof that "most other manufacturers do not have these kinds of problems"? Remember, this is one car that we know of, not every N54-engined BMW. If you want to make this assumption, well, you know what happens when you assume. In the meantime, there are thousands of us who have not had any serious problems with our cars.

One car I had in the past (made by another German automaker) threw a rod bearing at 1,000 miles and they refused to cover it under warranty, then insisted I needed to replace the "long block" at a cost of $8500. I reluctantly agreed to do this so I could get my car back on the road, but I went to arbitration to get the costs covered or reduced. During arbitration, the regional rep for the manufacturer poisoned the conversation by telling the arbitrator (a woman with absolutely no car knowledge at all) that it was incumbent on me to prove it wasn't my fault for "not breaking it in properly" and not on them to prove it was faulty parts or manufacturing. Then, in the course of the discussion, he said that if they had covered the repair, they would have installed a "crankshaft kit" at a cost of about $2K including labor. So clearly the dealer lied to me by being adamant about replacing the long block instead of this relatively inexpensive repair. I ended up losing the case because the arbitrator said "if there was a possibility that the car wasn't driven properly during the break-in period", then it's not the manufacturer's fault. Completely illogical and untrue. At that point, I could have hired a lawyer, but I was in the process of moving and couldn't afford the time and expense, nor could I find a lawyer with automotive warranty experience.

But it gets even better - even with a new engine, the car would suddenly lose power, whether idling or on the road, and had no throttle response at all. Turned out to be a faulty electronic throttle actuator, which they replaced 3 times in 5 weeks. Wouldn't lemon the car, either. A few months later, the car was in an accident with my son driving, and it was totaled, so I didn't have to deal with it any more.

Moral of this long-winded story is count your blessings - it could always be worse, and every manufacturer has its design/quality problems. You just have to widen your focus and get all the facts, not just what you read on some specific-car-oriented internet forum.

Yup, VW is have the Diesel pumps explode and trash the whole DI system. Also, my neigbors Cayman S just had to have the motor pulled to replace the HPFP in that one.

[quietus]

Originally Posted by vase330

I don't know that there is anything we can do about that other hope. Best thing is no one goes in to do anything in the first place, causing related issues you didn't already have, but the stupid pumps wont hold up on some of our cars.

Had a 08 E92 and went through 4 HPFP's and 3 injectors. Just traded up to a 12 335is and you know what, even with their faults, I still LUV these cars as there is nuthin like them on the road!

Glad to hear your babys back and running great and it didn't end up costing you an arm and leg. Like most here I was sharing your pain believe me! Hang in there....

[bigdaddycane]

We all have seen the issues with the N54 and most of us deal with them appropriately. What some people don't realize or choose not to remember is, that BMW has not made a significant turbo charged engine in a VERY LONG TIME. I truly believe BMW is committed to turbo charged engines and will refine them over time. I'm not a BMW apologist, but more of a realist as I have tried other German brands and have come back to BMW as my German car of choice. My 335 has had some of the issues mentioned above (HPFP, Injectors, turbos) but I still love the way it drives/looks; has not tainted me at all.

and you know what, even with their faults, I still LUV these cars as there is nuthin like them on the road!

I feel ya brotha....

Originally Posted by David1

Also, my neigbors Cayman S just had to have the motor pulled to replace the HPFP in that one.

Most if not all mid or rear engine Porsche's need the motor pulled to do any significant engine (or engine accessory) work.

[indy99gpgt]

OP, im glad the issue was fixed. Its really disheartening that this car can have a major problem such as this at such low milage. Atleast now if it happens again you'll know exactly what to do. Thanks for keeping us updated during the whole issue.

Everyone is using the term detonation(knock) in the wrong context. Detonation cant happen at idle. It usually occurs when the cylinder walls are so hot that the fuel ignites before the spark is applied (usally during a WOT run). Running lean at idle is not a bad thing either. Running lean is only bad when the engine is under load which generates excessive heat which can lead to knock/melted pistons. Detonation only occurs when the engine is under load and is not felt by the driver, as stated by shiv. What the OP was most likely feeling is a misfire which in some cases can be very violent depending on the actually condition in the misfireing cylinder(s).

Im not exactly sure on this platform but on other platforms, when there is a fuel issue or a spark issue, the engine will go into multi-fire mode which means all the injectors fire at the same time instead of on a per cylinder bases. If that thappened during this event, then fuel could have puddled up over a few strokes and then ignited causing a rather large explosion. Just a theory.

[vase330]

I can't say I have ever experience anything quite as violent as this was in any car, even the barely operable junks I once had. You can understand my fear what I experienced was a blown engine. I laugh now, but it was scary as hell when it happened. I am still in awe nothing broke. It sounded and felt like a major component just went kaboom inside the motor. BMW dealer confirmed it can be an incredibly violent besides being insanely loud event. Shiv was right when he said it feels like you ran into a brick wall. Felt like the engine tried to rip itself out of the mounts then crashed back down really hard in a split seconds. I have had mild misfire on this car before when my HPFP went out. This was an entirely different level. I was parked in park with car idling. At-least we know of one more thing that can happen. It knocked the AC lines clean off the climps that hold it to the block. Certainly appreciate very much it didn't turn out worse. Knock on wood.

[indy99gpgt]

Originally Posted by vase330

I can't say I have ever experience anything quite as violent as this was in any car, even the barely operable junks I once had. You can understand my fear what I experienced was a blown engine. I laugh now, but it was scary as hell when it happened. I am still in awe nothing broke. It sounded and felt like a major component just went kaboom inside the motor. BMW dealer confirmed it can be an incredibly violent besides being insanely loud event. Shiv was right when he said it feels like you ran into a brick wall. Felt like the engine tried to rip itself out of the mounts then crashed back down really hard in a split seconds. I have had mild misfire on this car before when my HPFP went out. This was an entirely different level. I was parked in park with car idling. At-least we know of one more thing that can happen. It knocked the AC lines clean off the climps that hold it to the block. Certainly appreciate very much it didn't turn out worse. Knock on wood.

Wow!. That takes a pretty good jolt to do that. I would have been just as scared.

[tibra1]

Originally Posted by Tzu

In for codes and the techs statement.

+1..Vase post these please

[tibra1]

Originally Posted by zerep1

yeah it probably went rich and detonated i dont think theres anything major broken but the injectors might have not been properly seated or something i have heard of this before

Originally Posted by tscdennab

Well, of course it's lean when there is no fuel coming

Supposedly you can dentonte when running rich as welll..would like to see or understand that.

[OpenFlash]

vase330-- you should really update the first post and say it was a FPR failure. Because new readers have to read through several pages before learning that it's NOT an engine failure and that NO detonation occurred. Just saying...

[RoundelM3]

Originally Posted by indy99gpgt

Everyone is using the term detonation(knock) in the wrong context. Detonation cant happen at idle. It usually occurs when the cylinder walls are so hot that the fuel ignites before the spark is applied (usally during a WOT run).

In the early emissions-controlled cars (mid-70s), they ran a very lean mixture and had an auxiliary air pump (also called a smog pump) that was supposed to insure that all the fuel was being burned. They also had 195-degree thermostats, and when the ignition was switched off at idle, they'd continue to run for a few seconds - very roughly - and you could hear a pronounced "knock" every time the affected cylinders would "fire". This was detonation caused by a very lean mixture and a combustion chamber full of hot surfaces.

The detonation you refer to is similar, although it usually occurs under load (higher cylinder temps) due to low octane or a very lean mixture, but sometmes also from an overheating engine. What's bad about it is that it occurs before the piston reaches TDC, and the exploding charge pushes back against the piston/rod/crankshaft, which is where the "knock" sound comes from.

Not to belabor the point.

[lonamuller19]

It all sorted itself out pretty well! Your car runs fine, you didn’t have to bring your car insurance company in, you paid within $2000 and hopefully, you won’t have to go through this ordeal again. Yay!