[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by Wedge1967

haha, I have dirt... LOL Pictures anyone? haha

oh god no.

[Torgus]

Originally Posted by Jeff@TopGearSolutions

7 years ago they could barely get the car to allow for more then a 2-3 psi increase without going bananas and throwing CEL and going into limp mode.

A lot has changed over the years to say the least. There was a time when 14 PSI was "too much boost" also. Platforms evolve and so does the understanding what is safe and what is even possible.

I think the people skeptical need to step back and learn a thing or two. This is good stuff for this platform, your platform.

Ok just so I am clear 18psi at 4k is fine for a stock N54 and this is considered conservative tune, is that right? Not aggressive? So more could be gained if they went aggressive or tuned on 93?


I guess I am just confused why none of the other tunes ever hit that including procede. In 7 years they didn't learn what was ok to run on a stock car? How/when did Shiv realize 18psi is fine? Will procede now hit 18psi on a stock N54?


Don't get me wrong I am all for this as it means I can crank up my boost. I just want to be safe.

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by Torgus

Ok just so I am clear 18psi at 4k is fine for a stock N54 and this is considered conservative tune, is that right? Not aggressive?


I guess I am just confused why none of the other tunes ever hit that including procede. In 7 years they didn't learn what was ok to run on a stock car? How/when did Shiv realize 18psi is fine? Will procede now hit 18psi on a stock N54?

Procede, by itself, can't run 18psi at 4000rpm on gasoline alone. This is because it doesn't have the fuel system capacity to do so. There are limitations to how we adjust fuel through the piggyback. The most it can run at 4000rpm is 14-15psi. But coupled with a ProcedeFlash, this is not the case and you can run more.

This Xpsi is "too high" argument is pretty simplistic and should be abandoned if you are here to learn about tuning. Boost is just one ingredient to the power recipe. Two others (ign advance and fuel) that play an equally big roll. But I suppose it's the most fun one to talk about because it is associated with cool things like turbos and bypass valves.

As for other tunes not running 18psi, the piggybacks can't due to limitations mentioned above. The Cobb tune have indeed attempt this before but didn't seem to have solid enough boost/throttle control to pull it of successfully. In fact, they were running more than 18psi. And for a larger part of the RPM band.

[derrick603]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Procede, by itself, can't run 18psi at 4000rpm on gasoline alone. This is because it doesn't have the fuel system capacity to do so. There are limitations to how we adjust fuel through the piggyback. The most it can run at 4000rpm is 14-15psi. But coupled with a ProcedeFlash, this is not the case and you can run more.

That's good information, thanks.

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

This Xpsi is "too high" argument is pretty simplistic and should be abandoned if you are here to learn about tuning. Boost is just one ingredient to the power recipe. Two others (ign advance and fuel) that play an equally big roll. But I suppose it's the most fun one to talk about because it is associated with cool things like turbos and bypass valves.

IIRC, the previous line of thinking was that lower boost and more aggressive timing was the way to go for efficient power. Now it seems like higher boost is the way to go (with I assume more conservative timing due to fuel quality limitations). Is this the case or do you have better control of both factors with a flash tune over a piggyback, thereby allowing you to have high boost and relatively aggressive timing at the same time?

[BmwECY]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Procede, by itself, can't run 18psi at 4000rpm on gasoline alone. This is because it doesn't have the fuel system capacity to do so. There are limitations to how we adjust fuel through the piggyback. The most it can run at 4000rpm is 14-15psi. But coupled with a ProcedeFlash, this is not the case and you can run more.

This Xpsi is "too high" argument is pretty simplistic and should be abandoned if you are here to learn about tuning. Boost is just one ingredient to the power recipe. Two others (ign advance and fuel) that play an equally big roll. But I suppose it's the most fun one to talk about because it is associated with cool things like turbos and bypass valves.

As for other tunes not running 18psi, the piggybacks can't due to limitations mentioned above. The Cobb tune have indeed attempt this before but didn't seem to have solid enough boost/throttle control to pull it of successfully. In fact, they were running more than 18psi. And for a larger part of the RPM band.

focusing on how much boost a specific tune runs is like focusing on what color 335i to buy. obviously, there are more options, packages, transmission choices, etc. that are equally important (if not more important).

[BmwECY]

Originally Posted by derrick603

That's good information, thanks.



IIRC, the previous line of thinking was that lower boost and more aggressive timing was the way to go for efficient power. Now it seems like higher boost is the way to go (with I assume more conservative timing due to fuel quality limitations). Is this the case or do you have better control of both factors with a flash tune over a piggyback, thereby allowing you to have high boost and relatively aggressive timing at the same time?

i think that's one piece of the equation how shiv is hitting such good numbers on stage 0 and 1 with 91 octane fuel

[Torgus]

Originally Posted by BmwECY

focusing on how much boost a specific tune runs is like focusing on what color 335i to buy.

Really? So boost doesn't matter? I am confused...so the tunes hitting 14psi and producing less power(procede/jb4/cobb) has nothing to do with the fact this tune is hitting 18psi and producing more power? What was I thinking? I guess I should boost 20psi at RED line because how much boost a tune runs matters as much as my car's color? Can you continue to educate me about how boost levels don't matter?


Shiv when will you have 93 octane? You should get alot more orders if the results are better which they should be.

[BmwECY]

Originally Posted by Torgus

Really? So the tunes hitting 14psi and producing less power(procede/jb4/cobb) has nothing to do with the fact this tune is hitting 18psi and producing more power? What was I thinking?

piggy backs can't hit 18psi in the lower rpm band without a backend flash. is it really that difficult to understand?

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by Torgus

Really? So the tunes hitting 14psi and producing less power(procede/jb4/cobb) has nothing to do with the fact this tune is hitting 18psi and producing more power? What was I thinking?

Sounds like you have a motive here in this thread so I'll be blunt and then ignore you. The amount of boost you run at 4000rpm has no effect on how much power the car makes since that is made at 5500-6000rpm. If you don't understand this, you need to educate yourself. If you do understand this and are just pandering to the uninformed, shame on you. At peak hp RPM, our OpenFlash tune runs around 13-14psi. Same as we run with the Procede. Which is why it makes similar peak power as the Procede. The advantage of the OpenFlash tune is what it is capable of safely supporting in the midrange. And that has a huge subjective effect on performance and drivability. Having solid boost/throttle control also has a big effect as well.

It's also worth noting that our OpenFlash tunes do not target peak boost in the low end (2000-3500rpm) as other flash tunes tend to do. There is also a reason for this. And it appears that others will make up their own reasons for that. Which is fine. You guys keep complaining and the rest of us will enjoy our cars.

[buster84]

Originally Posted by Torgus

Really? So boost doesn't matter? I am confused...so the tunes hitting 14psi and producing less power(procede/jb4/cobb) has nothing to do with the fact this tune is hitting 18psi and producing more power? What was I thinking? I guess I should boost 20psi at RED line because how much boost a tune runs matters as much as my car's color? Can you continue to educate me about how boost levels don't matter?


Shiv when will you have 93 octane? You should get alot more orders if the results are better which they should be.

Boost, Ignition, Air Temps, Gas all play a part in a tune. Same goes with cams, some cams are very aggressive in the higher rpms 4000+ and not so much below. I'm not sure how the cams are in this car, but its obvious that they are good up top.

Shiv's tune is adjusting for everything even the engine. Your getting lots of hp with high boost upto 4000rpms then as the engine picks up and creates more power on its own the tune adjusts the boost to bring it back down to keep the power level the same. If they kept the boost the same the turbo would create extreme temps, and eventually would break. The reliability of the engine and turbo's would diminish greatly so there is no reason to keep the boost up past the turbochargers capabilities.

If you upgraded your turbo's with ones that were efficient above 500+hp and 20+ psi, then you can freely tune your car to 20psi as long as you have the fuel and spark to do so. This is why people who use e85 and meth get more hp. They decrease nock and intake temps so they can increase timing. There still not increasing boost. The turbo chargers are done at a certain point and thats why they are tuned that way.

[Torgus]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Sounds like you have a motive here in this thread so I'll be blunt and then ignore you. The amount of boost you run at 4000rpm has no effect on how much power the car makes since that is made at 5500-6000rpm. If you don't understand this, you need to educate yourself. If you do understand this and are just pandering to the uninformed, shame on you. At peak hp RPM, our OpenFlash tune runs around 13-14psi. Same as we run with the Procede. Which is why it makes similar peak power as the Procede. The advantage of the OpenFlash tune is what it is capable of safely supporting in the midrange. And that has a huge subjective effect on performance and drivability. Having solid boost/throttle control also has a big effect as well.

It's also worth noting that our OpenFlash tunes do not target peak boost in the low end (2000-3500rpm) as other flash tunes tend to do. There is also a reason for this. And it appears that others will make up their own reasons for that. Which is fine. You guys keep complaining and the rest of us will enjoy our cars.

I am not complaining just trying to understand.

When will you have results on 93 do you think?

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by Torgus

I am not complaining just trying to understand.

When will you have results on 93 do you think?

When people on 93oct dyno there cars. We only get 91oct here in the West.

[Dcara]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

When people on 93oct dyno there cars. We only get 91oct here in the West.

Hook me up with a free tablet and I'll go dyno 94 for you!

[Torgus]

Originally Posted by Dcara

Hook me up with a free tablet and I'll go dyno 94 for you!

Seriously I can be on a dyno this weekend on 93, 94, or E85. It's like 5 minutes from my house

[E90Company]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Sounds like you have a motive here in this thread so I'll be blunt and then ignore you. The amount of boost you run at 4000rpm has no effect on how much power the car makes since that is made at 5500-6000rpm. If you don't understand this, you need to educate yourself. If you do understand this and are just pandering to the uninformed, shame on you. At peak hp RPM, our OpenFlash tune runs around 13-14psi. Same as we run with the Procede. Which is why it makes similar peak power as the Procede. The advantage of the OpenFlash tune is what it is capable of safely supporting in the midrange. And that has a huge subjective effect on performance and drivability. Having solid boost/throttle control also has a big effect as well.

It's also worth noting that our OpenFlash tunes do not target peak boost in the low end (2000-3500rpm) as other flash tunes tend to do. There is also a reason for this. And it appears that others will make up their own reasons for that. Which is fine. You guys keep complaining and the rest of us will enjoy our cars.

By power, I'll assume you are referencing horsepower, correct? (Based on the red highlight) I won't speak for Torgus, but I don't think he's necessarily talking about horsepower single-handedly. More about torque, as that's power as well. You are leaving this out, while it's important.

For those that are unaware, running more boost down low produces more torque, so yes you will see a big increase in torque with 18psi down low. With this OpenFlashTablet map, Shiv is running more boost down low than the Procede piggyback, with the setup he's referring to when he talks about peak power between the two.

Regarding the green highlighted text, what kind of load are you targeting in this RPM range on this map for stock hardware on 91 octane? I'm curious to know the reasoning behind it as well. It's just much easier for me to deal with facts and hard data, rather than making statements without it.

[klipseracer]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

But I suppose it's the most fun one to talk about because it is associated with cool things like turbos and bypass valves.

I personally don't really see how blow off valves, a topic generally associated with novices and noobs are related to what the community sees as a safe pressure to run. If there are other variables that play an effect on the limits of this one variable that most of us are familiar with, which is pressure, then a simple explanation is sufficient.

[Wedge1967]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

oh god no.

Haha, you and your bitches...

For all that don't know, Shiv has a soft spot for animals. He rescued this dog that was lost running around in a parking lot. He was the only one this dog would go to...

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by E90Company

By power, I'll assume you are referencing horsepower, correct? (Based on the red highlight) I won't speak for Torgus, but I don't think he's necessarily talking about horsepower single-handedly. More about torque, as that's power as well. You are leaving this out, while it's important.

For those that are unaware, running more boost down low produces more torque, so yes you will see a big increase in torque with 18psi down low. With this OpenFlashTablet map, Shiv is running more boost down low than the Procede piggyback, with the setup he's referring to when he talks about peak power between the two.

Regarding the green highlighted text, what kind of load are you targeting in this RPM range on this map for stock hardware on 91 octane? I'm curious to know the reasoning behind it as well. It's just much easier for me to deal with facts and hard data, rather than making statements without it.

Before arguing with me, or anyone else, about tuning. You should have a firm understanding of the differences between Power and Torque. They cannot be used interchangeably.

Shiv can you post the same log for Stage 0?

[Johnny Boost]

Originally Posted by Wedge1967

Haha, you and your bitches...

For all that don't know, Shiv has a soft spot for animals. He rescued this dog that was lost running around in a parking lot. He was the only one this dog would go to...

Wedge I wanted to send you a PM but it wont let me. Is there a better way to contact you? E-mail?

[jippii ensio]

Originally Posted by WLF

No i meant one tuner ( for example PTF) can get u same numbers from cobb as shiv from the open source since both flash have access to same tables.
Comparing Cobb off the shelf maps to the open source does not make sense because it is a fact cobb maps are on the safe side . Not saying the open source are not.

I think you just compared Cobb maps to the Shiv's OpenFlash maps. So the comparison makes some sense to you. Moreover, it makes sense to someone who does not want to pay extra for tuning, but wants to have a flashing device with off the shelf maps. So, the natural options would be Cobb vs OpenFlash both with the respective OTS maps.

Do you think it makes more sense to compare Protune maps with Off the shelf maps? Protune maps are extra $. Moreover, they are custom tuned to the car. Its totally different and unfair. For me, it makes more sense to compare free of charge, off the shelf maps against each other. Also, comparing different custom tunes at extra charge against each other makes sense to me.

I don't agree that having an access to same tables means that the numbers are the same. Now you have the access to the same tables, so your tune would have the same numbers as Shiv's or PTF's? I don't have any idea of your tuning capabilities, and you might not have either but considering the in practice infinite number of possible combinations you can enter the values in the tables, there is no chance that the values would be the same for all of you three tuners. There will be a difference in how the car is tuned by someone who has been tuning cars for his full professional life and with someone who decides last year, that he can tune cars in the evenings after work and get some additional income.

Basically, having the same boost, ignition advance and fueling results in the same performance. But the only way to have exactly the same boost, ignition and fueling across the whole rev range in all the ambient circumstances is impossible by any other means than copying all the figures from all of the tables from one tune to another. That is called copying though, not tuning.

[BmwECY]

Originally Posted by jippii ensio

I think you just compared Cobb maps to the Shiv's OpenFlash maps. So the comparison makes some sense to you. Moreover, it makes sense to someone who does not want to pay extra for tuning, but wants to have a flashing device with off the shelf maps. So, the natural options would be Cobb vs OpenFlash both with the respective OTS maps.

Do you think it makes more sense to compare Protune maps with Off the shelf maps? Protune maps are extra $. Moreover, they are custom tuned to the car. Its totally different and unfair. For me, it makes more sense to compare free of charge, off the shelf maps against each other. Also, comparing different custom tunes at extra charge against each other makes sense to me.

I don't agree that having an access to same tables means that the numbers are the same. Now you have the access to the same tables, so your tune would have the same numbers as Shiv's or PTF's? I don't have any idea of your tuning capabilities, and you might not have either but considering the in practice infinite number of possible combinations you can enter the values in the tables, there is no chance that the values would be the same for all of you three tuners. There will be a difference in how the car is tuned by someone who has been tuning cars for his full professional life and with someone who decides last year, that he can tune cars in the evenings after work and get some additional income.

Basically, having the same boost, ignition advance and fueling results in the same performance. But the only way to have exactly the same boost, ignition and fueling across the whole rev range in all the ambient circumstances is impossible by any other means than copying all the figures from all of the tables from one tune to another. That is called copying though, not tuning.

very well said