[reno808]

Originally Posted by mwscircle

that makes no sense -_- pipe and boost?

yeah that makes sense

[NiVeDh]

Originally Posted by bmwgrsv

Those that have a stranglehold on the market don't like competition.. I REALLY hope these work out because honestly I think it's pretty low that a vendor needs to justify why their pipes are so much better and why you shouldn't even consider buying anything than his/her higher PRICED product..

Time will tell..

Agreed.

Until someone tries these out, all the self-proclaimed PhDs in fluid mechanics who popped up in this thread need to shut up.

[jblackwell]

Originally Posted by NiVeDh

Agreed.

Until someone tries these out, all the self-proclaimed PhDs in fluid mechanics who popped up in this thread need to shut up.

They will be here tomorrow...

[wsybert]

What looks like a sharp corner on the inside curve at the inlet of the downpipe, pictured above, is not an ideal design. Considering the other designs I have seen, with much smoother transitions at that point, it is easy to speculate that this downpipe is a lesser design. As to what effect it has on HP.... no one knows.
Let the testing begin...
Oh... I do not have a PhD in fluid mechanics.

[Terrance28]

Originally Posted by wsybert

What looks like a sharp corner on the inside curve at the inlet of the downpipe, pictured above, is not an ideal design. Considering the other designs I have seen, with much smoother transitions at that point, it is easy to speculate that this downpipe is a lesser design. As to what effect it has on HP.... no one knows.
Let the testing begin...
Oh... I do not have a PhD in fluid mechanics.

Yes they are not perfect and not on par with the other vendors dps, but if they are better than stock then its a win and another option for those that don't want optimal performance but just want something better than stock.

[klipseracer]

Originally Posted by Terrance28

Yes they are not perfect and not on par with the other vendors dps, but if they are better than stock then its a win and another option for those that don't want optimal performance but just want something better than stock.

THANK YOU. If they work better than stock, is there REALLY anything wrong with them? They cost nearly nothing. If they aren't better than stock, we will continue the search. Can't fault someone for investigating.

[335iheLLraiseR]

Originally Posted by bmwgrsv

Ok I'm going to chime in on this...

Someone brought up intercoolers and I've been through a few cars now before getting my BMW so I have quite a bit of experience in the matter.. I can tell you right now.. there is a PREMIUM for buying BMW parts for some reason.. FMIC of good quality can be found for a lot of other car brands out there but come on, not one person here can tell me that you need to pay 1100+ for a intercooler when you can get a FMIC for a SRT-4 or a Mustang (two cars that I've owned and turbod" for under 300.00.. And as far as quality, I've never heard anyone that has issues with the intercooler they bought at this price point..

- worked for me for 2 years..

Downpipes.. 750.00 come on.. are you on drugs?? a downpipe, even though there's only one, run about 200.00 or so for a SRT-4 and it's quite a bit larger pipe in length.. And again I've NEVER heard of anyone having issues with their downpipe..

If you want my opinion.. I believe that people think that because you bought a BMW you either

A) Companies think you have a shitload of money and will pay the extra money for parts

B) Companies are telling BMW owners that they HAVE to spend a premium for their parts because that's the only way they are going to get quality "BMWish" products

C) BMW owners are stupid and won't go the extra mile to look for lower priced products

there ARE other alternatives out there.. although for some products I believe you get what you pay for.. but at the same time, be smart about it.. I'm not to the point where I want to do major upgrades on my car but I know that when that time comes I'm going to shop around and I doubt very much I'll spend almost 2k for a couple downpipes and a FMIC..

Originally Posted by hun77777

throughout years, from thirty-fourty bux cheap-ass intake for civic to few thousand dollars appliances, i, for one, have been a buyer on ebay for many items and automotive parts.

however, some people would much rather pay bit of premium for a trouble free gurantee and service that comes with the premium brand product, especially when it comes down to automotive parts. dinan ecu upgrade for bmw 335i is good example of this many can agree with. people know that it comes with hefty price tag for less performance than JB3 or Procede but some people still want to stay within dinan because of warranty and so forth. for many bmw owners, it's not worth to save few bucks considering the risk on ebay parts or cheap parts that are not proven. that's why so many people are suspicious on $200 dp or $400 ic. hell, i even remember so many people doubt vk dp will be legit in the beginning stage or groub buy (some even worried that the vendor will take money and disappear).

with some proven results on these cheap, inexpensive after market parts that are available through ebay and many other online parts. we might be able to save further. we all gotta agree more choice and more competition on the market benefit us more, whether that's dp, ic or whatever...

this reminds of the story about the hospital in NY that had two entrances, one for insured, and one for uninsureds.

Originally Posted by snosk8tr123

That was directed towards AR, who said that these pipes are being sold below AR's cost

right, and thats why i said that. the mfg part done overseas is what lowers the cost. AR does theirs in house by hand instead of a 6 year old that knows how to tig weld.

[ar design]

Originally Posted by 335iheLLraiseR

AR does theirs in house by hand instead of a 6 year old that knows how to tig weld.

I LOL'd

[Former_Boosted_IS]

Originally Posted by Terrance28

Yes they are not perfect and not on par with the other vendors dps, but if they are better than stock then its a win and another option for those that don't want optimal performance but just want something better than stock.

I think I would agree if it wasn't for one thing... the install. If you could do the job in 30 minutes then I would agree, but this is a 3 hour job on a lift and longer on the floor. For someone like me, I want to do this job once and only once period.

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by Former_Boosted_IS

I think I would agree if it wasn't for one thing... the install. If you could do the job in 30 minutes then I would agree, but this is a 3 hour job on a lift and longer on the floor. For someone like me, I want to do this job once and only once period.

This is a great point! I don't think some people realize that fitment is everything on these and you really only want to do the install once. If something happens and you have to have them replaced the amount of labor to get a new set in is not pocket change and may bring you up to the more expensive pipes price point!

Mike

[I335]

I think the welds look terrible on these pipes, especially in comparison with AR or MS pipes. You guys who are saying the welds look decent - did you look closely? In the pictures I see it looks like they are so thin in a couple of areas that you can just about see the edge of the pipe right through them. Also, why do you think they recommend cleaning them with steel wool every month (and how the hell are you going to do that - take them out once a month, clean then, and reinstall)? It's to take the rust off, of course. These things will be rust buckets in no time and I wouldn't be a bit surprised if those amatuer welds started leaking after a year or two. No way I would ever take the time and effort to install these on my car.

[Terrance28]

Originally Posted by Former_Boosted_IS

I think I would agree if it wasn't for one thing... the install. If you could do the job in 30 minutes then I would agree, but this is a 3 hour job on a lift and longer on the floor. For someone like me, I want to do this job once and only once period.

Thats why we need a guinea pig to try them and inform us.

[Terrance28]

Originally Posted by I335

I think the welds look terrible on these pipes, especially in comparison with AR or MS pipes. You guys who are saying the welds look decent - did you look closely? In the pictures I see it looks like they are so thin in a couple of areas that you can just about see the edge of the pipe right through them. Also, why do you think they recommend cleaning them with steel wool every month (and how the hell are you going to do that - take them out once a month, clean then, and reinstall)? It's to take the rust off, of course. These things will be rust buckets in no time and I wouldn't be a bit surprised if those amatuer welds started leaking after a year or two. No way I would ever take the time and effort to install these on my car.

Again we are not comparing these to AR or MS, we already came to the conclusion that they are better pipes try not to beat the dead horse anymore. You cannot come to a conclusion of the welds from a pic on ebay. To know this for sure the only way is to have a set and inspect it directly. We can speculate all day but until someone jumps on them we will never know for sure. JBlackwell said he will have his pair today so we will know soon enough.

[Kevin@AKMotorwerk]

those pics suck, and between the fuzzyness i think i see bubble gum welds

[Donald-335i]

guys who cares stop comparing them to AR/MS for $199 and 10rwhp is pretty f****** solid someone try these!

[Terrance28]

I know i'm trying to resize them or something, I can't tell from the pics I will ask for better ones as these are way to fuzzy. Jblackwell says he will take some with his dslr so I guess we can wait on that.

[I335]

Fair enough. Looking forward to someone trying them and posting good close-ups of the welds. I'd also be interested in seeing what they look like after a few months of use in typical driving conditions - including wet weather...

[SlicktopTTZ]

Originally Posted by NiVeDh

Agreed.

Until someone tries these out, all the self-proclaimed PhDs in fluid mechanics who popped up in this thread need to shut up.

Yeah, because it takes a PhD to realize that those pipes will not flow as well as MS or AR pipes. Also, telling people to shut up on a public forum over the internet is completely pointless. My point was sure, these pipes may flow better than stock for a relatively small amount of money, but as long as you have these pipes on your car you will have to live knowing that your car could be faster had you bought higher quality pipes. I bought $1000 exhaust manifolds (pair) and $675 downpipes for my 300ZX, and based on factual data I am happy knowing that I have the best performing pre-made exhaust plumbing currently on the market for my car. Maximum performance is my goal, and these pipes will not accomplish that, which is why I stated that I would never put these pipes on my car.

[Kevin@AKMotorwerk]

Originally Posted by SlicktopTTZ

Yeah, because it takes a PhD to realize that those pipes will not flow as well as MS or AR pipes. Also, telling people to shut up on a public forum over the internet is completely pointless. My point was sure, these pipes may flow better than stock for a relatively small amount of money, but as long as you have these pipes on your car you will have to live knowing that your car could be faster had you bought higher quality pipes. I bought $1000 exhaust manifolds (pair) and $675 downpipes for my 300ZX, and based on factual data I am happy knowing that I have the best performing pre-made exhaust plumbing currently on the market for my car. Maximum performance is my goal, and these pipes will not accomplish that, which is why I stated that I would never put these pipes on my car.

and going every day wondering if the welds are holding up and thinking every little noise you hear is the down pipes leaking from the flanges or from the welds

[ianthegreat]

Originally Posted by 335iheLLraiseR

right, and thats why i said that. the mfg part done overseas is what lowers the cost. AR does theirs in house by hand instead of a 6 year old that knows how to tig weld.

I don't know about this - 6 year old??? I have pictures from China at one of the mills we were potentially going to source from. The employees were more like 12. You need to get your facts straight.

[Kevin@AKMotorwerk]

Originally Posted by Nick.CBR

lol

sexye98 regarding an oil change: "after the oil change, I've spent every waking moment wondering if every last drop of old oil was safely removed from the engine..."

Maybe you can be on Oprah?

Nick

haha your real funny bro. i would love to know your mechanical background or welding experience since you want to be a douche on this thread as if you have built a dp or have any welding experience. please show me something to prove your word is credable and i will apologize and shut my mouth, til then you can kiss my a$$

[Terrance28]

Originally Posted by sexye92

haha your real funny bro. i would love to know your mechanical background or welding experience since you want to be a douche on this thread as if you have built a dp or have any welding experience. please show me something to prove your word is credable and i will apologize and shut my mouth, til then you can kiss my a$$

I think what Nick is trying to say is that we don't know anything about these pipes except that they are cheap. And I notice that when anything is cheap for a BMW the first thing that comes to mind is that it must be crap. I don't pass judgement on anything until it is proven, so until I see the dslr pics from jblackwells set showing thats its garbage then I will join with you in bashing them.