[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

Clearly you have an AXE to grind but let me ask you this. Say you wanted some tuning features or didn't like something with TuneX. Just for the sake of conversation lets pretend they are just the same features TuneY offers even though that's not entirely the case here. Would you rather your TuneX tuner tell you to pound sand and buy TuneY or would you rather he invest $100k to develop a more advanced board that better meets YOUR needs and then give it to you for practically nothing?

Mike

Your questions seems pretty straight forward however you got me Mike, I'm confused on the question...

Are you asking me if Tune X sucks and Tune Y is a better solution would I go with that?

or would I rather have tune x put $100K into a new board and give me a shot at tune x again for "practically nothing".

I'm spoiled when it comes to tuning Mike, very spoiled.

I dont care if Fisher price makes the tune as long as it works better then the rest. I like Terry hes helped me as best he could, he really has, Thanks for that. I've talked to Shiv and his crew, they've helped me along the way as well, again thanks for that. I dont want you either manufacturer for a second to think I can make a better tune, its just not what I do for a living, not a clue, infact I hate electronics LOL. However, you guys have the resources and the know-how, and its more then likely the career paths you took cause its a passion.

In the world of tuning, these tunes have some work before they are to be considered ideal tunes available. Whether these manufactures want to invest the money is up to them. I'm sure there is a good 60% maybe more that are content with where the tunes are today. Maybe they are just clueless? Maybe they dont care? Or know the difference? IDK i', not here to talk for those people, just the people that want more control. Im purposely using the term loosely, but what it really comes down to his a tune that really lets you pick boost targets, a/f targets, ignition targets, fail safes, lean cuts, boost cuts, gear compensation for fuel and ignition. Complete control over onboard diagnostics, hiding CEL, clearing CEL, Disable Error codes altogether. Some of this stuff I mentioned is implemented already.... Thats all gravy, but I wouldnt say they are "fixed" completely, I think its more trickery of the ECU. In essence a stand-alone system is probably what I'm seeking.

My car's decently quick... notice I didnt say fast. I like my car, im pretty content with where it is, but I know there are still improvements to be made on all tunes. Again, CONTROL..... is what I really want.

I can easily complain about what I dont like from the JB3, as I still can from the Procede. I mean bogfix with the Jb3? thats cute, and "ignition correction" from the procede, CMON. <--- is that control. LOL

So If I got your question right mike, the answer is whatever tune does what I ask, will be praised like its my own child.

I walk around with a big head and a big mouth for 2 reasons, boredom, and for the better of the tuning community.

Nothing else. I hope both manufacturers can take some of this stuff into consideration and use it to make/implement better products and make more money.

[Belarus]

Originally Posted by pentaxis

With all due respect, it's because your initial post was worthless due to a lack of legitimate content.

People might be discussing features had any been posted.

What's the point of an "[insert vendor here] is gonna do something cool in months and months" thread? It builds more resentment than excitement when you are as vague as can be.

Content is king. That's why your thread went to shit.

+1

[WOPALX]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

You mean an advance limiter/CPS offset? As I've said in the past it is not necessary and the majority of you running an advance limiter are constantly bumping up against the knock threshold regardless. But remember this board is being designed for more than one application and for those looking for more advanced feature sets. That is one feature that will be included as far as my notes from my conversation with T show.

Mike

Mike,

I think adding CPS offsetting is a very big improvement to the JB product, well done

However the FUD in you reply as to the reason for adding it is getting old.

All tunes will result in a timing adjustment / compensation to get as close to the knock threshold as possible, it's just whether the tune makes those changes in a proactive way as required, or relies on the factory system to make the adjustment.

As boost levels increase beyond stock and you add other power adders such as Meth or Nitrous the ability to make pro-active changes to timing in the event of something not going to plan is very important and the key feature of all tunes that offer it. IMHO this is the real reason it's being built into your next generation tune.



On the subject of 'boost control' will the new tune support full waste-gate control? If so then your really getting up to speed which again should be congratulated.

Cheers,

S

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by JPSlick

So If I got your question right mike, the answer is whatever tune does what I ask, will be praised like its my own child.

What I was getting at is it seems like you and a few others are down on BMS expanding their features. Working on things customers have been asking for and then a few more to boot. And I just don't get that.

On your particular needs the CPE seems like the best fit IMHO. From what I've seen total control.

Mike

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by WOPALX

Mike,

I think adding CPS offsetting is a very big improvement to the JB product, well done

However the FUD in you reply as to the reason for adding it is getting old.

All tunes will result in a timing adjustment / compensation to get as close to the knock threshold as possible, it's just whether the tune makes those changes in a proactive way as required, or relies on the factory system to make the adjustment.

As boost levels increase beyond stock and you add other power adders such as Meth or Nitrous the ability to make pro-active changes to timing in the event of something not going to plan is very important and the key feature of all tunes that offer it. IMHO this is the real reason it's being built into your next generation tune.



On the subject of 'boost control' will the new tune support full waste-gate control? If so then your really getting up to speed which again should be congratulated.

Cheers,

S

I can go without another CPS offset discussion for the day. Refer to numerous other threads on that topic.

On the wastegate control there are multiple types of control user selectable. You'll see.

Mike

[yandy]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

What I was getting at is it seems like you and a few others are down on BMS expanding their features. Working on things customers have been asking for and then a few more to boot. And I just don't get that.

On your particular needs the CPE seems like the best fit IMHO. From what I've seen total control.

Mike

No mike,

I think you got this wrong, if anything we're happy for BMS finally going from the this is not necessary. To listening to their customers and such, at least my part. The only thing I (we) asked was for some substance in this thread. Which you never answered me. It got into a piss fight with others too fast. Again, best of luck and personally not talking anything down. But your thread hold no substance. Saying wait 3-4months for what? Oh it'll be worth the wait?...

I understand the teaser part.. but that's usually when you have something weeks away maybe.. not months, and just hoping that people trust you.

I mean, come on dude..

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

What I was getting at is it seems like you and a few others are down on BMS expanding their features. Working on things customers have been asking for and then a few more to boot. And I just don't get that.

On your particular needs the CPE seems like the best fit IMHO. From what I've seen total control.

Mike

BMS expanding is fine, I still think they are just playing catch up. Which is what it always has been the majority of the time. I'm not even trying to talk down about it. I'm confident Terry will keep pushing the tune better and better I'm not concerned with that.

Its funny you mention CP-E I just talked to someone no more then a 2 minutes about the CP-E. Apparently its pretty much what I'm looking for.

You can practically make your own boost curve whatever the hell you want it to be. I knew what CP-E was capable of but before they implemented CAN there were a few bugs that needed to be worked out. Apparently they have worked them out.

I know my points have gotten skewed and side tracked amongst this thread and I dont want to sound hypocritical now...

But what I really wanted to say from the start is "its about damn time".

[Belarus]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

+1

To move this thread forward productively let me ask this. JB3 users what features would want to see added? BMS and the crew is busy working away but maybe someone will come up with something they've missed and this is a great opportunity for us to be a positive part of the process.

Since you've asked:

Fail safe by-pass in JB3:
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...53&postcount=9

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by yandyr

No mike,

I think you got this wrong, if anything we're happy for BMS finally going from the this is not necessary. To listening to their customers and such, at least my part. The only thing I (we) asked was for some substance in this thread. Which you never answered me. It got into a piss fight with others too fast. Again, best of luck and personally not talking anything down. But your thread hold no substance. Saying wait 3-4months for what? Oh it'll be worth the wait?...

I understand the teaser part.. but that's usually when you have something weeks away maybe.. not months, and just hoping that people trust you.

I mean, come on dude..

Like I said I'll give updates as I'm able to. I didn't say wait 3-4 months for the next update. I said that is the time frame for this upgrade being ready for public testing. I'll be adding to my first post as time goes on. I think people familiar with piggybacks can get a pretty good feeling of at least the basics from the teaser photos.

Mike

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by Belarus

Since you've asked:

Fail safe by-pass in JB3:
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...53&postcount=9

I know I said I wouldn't give any details yet. But yes that is on the board. Relays on the critical signals, and the only tune to also relay CPS and VSS so the car will run like stock (code free) if firmware fails to load, power supply fails, fuse blows, etc.

Mike

[Belarus]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

I know I said I wouldn't give any details yet. But yes that is on the board. Relays on the critical signals, and the only tune to also relay CPS and VSS so the car will run like stock (code free) if firmware fails to load, power supply fails, fuse blows, etc.

Mike

[cstavaru]

If I think about it, I think that most piggybacks are a like a waste of time and resources. I think the logical approach is to re-program the DME to do what you want from the start, instead of working for years to add features that are already available in the DME and just need to be reprogrammed.

Maybe if Terry Burger invested the money in tools to extract the existing software from the DME, modifying it and reflashing it, it would be much farther away today...

I see how GIAC started to develop an N54 tune two (maybe more ?) years after the BMS/Procede and now they are the best with no customer having to figure out the timing advances, wastegate behaviour, ignition correction etc. It just works...

[farbmw]

Originally Posted by cstavaru

If I think about it, I think that most piggybacks are a like a waste of time and resources. I think the logical approach is to re-program the DME to do what you want from the start, instead of working for years to add features that are already available in the DME and just need to be reprogrammed.

Maybe if Terry Burger invested the money in tools to extract the existing software from the DME, modifying it and reflashing it, it would be much farther away today...

I see how GIAC started to develop an N54 tune two (maybe more ?) years after the BMS/Procede and now they are the best with no customer having to figure out the timing advances, wastegate behaviour, ignition correction etc. It just works...

Yes, but not when you take the car back to the Stealership, that is where BMS/Procede shine! IMHO

And for the other posters:

[Sparky66]

Originally Posted by rmdvrs

Neither company can say that one truly innovates while the other completely copies and if you have been around long enough you would know that. There were things on the JB3 that when it was first coming out that procede did not have and was bashing. For example, having no need to drill holes for a power supply so let's not blur the line but let's not be oblivious to it.

Are you a lawyer?......because your twist on words makes it hard to maintain factual information from fiction. Firstly, I've been around on these forums a lot longer than based on your assumptions. Secondly I have had every Procede that Shiv ever released for the N54 and I have never drilled any holes. The fact that it always had solid state electronics rather than just a bunch of resistors is the reason that its power demand asked for a proper power supply.

Originally Posted by rmdvrs

Now honest and ethical is where I find Terry lives, innovates and sets the bar because if you have ever dealt with him you will no this is true. As far as shiv I will not comment. Not because I don't believe the same of him rather because I don't have the same experience or knowledge I do of his practices like I do Terry's. I only make claims and decisions, especially about people on tangible knowledge otherwise it's just called bashing.

Maybe it's best we rewind back to late 2006/2007 where Terry was just a user and not a N54 tuner on these very forums. You want to know why he was really banned?........here is one example of his obnoxious behaviour on E90Post.
Terry was going out of his way trying his best to bring down every Procede forum, trying to gather information from Shiv because he wanted to prove he could create his own competitive tune. He even went so far as reading the then un-encrypted Procede tuner's code and exposing it on these forums for anyone with the knowledge to simulate and make an exact copy of the tune..............rmdvrs is that ethical???

Before people blurt out and spout whatever knowledge they think they have on this subject, I think it's best for all of you to do some research here. I find it very hard to acknowledge anything Terry has acheived up to this point because of his past attitude on these forums. Yes he has succeeded and he is improving his tune but maybe he should be more humble about the direction his tune is taking because they are not his ideas.

I apologise fully for taking this thread off topic .....I won't be doing it again.
Looking forward to what can be improved upon for our N54 tunes road ahead.

[TakeOne]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

+1

To move this thread forward productively let me ask this. JB3 users what features would want to see added? BMS and the crew is busy working away but maybe someone will come up with something they've missed and this is a great opportunity for us to be a positive part of the process.

hmmm, what about making a meth instal even more seamless. Something different than what the JB3 is like now, and even easier than the procede.
Im talking about it basically being BUILT for direct plug and play?
Just a thought.....

[cn555ic]

Steve

BMS claims speed limiter defeat is useless and will be detected by dealership...only then after a few months has a upgrade for speed limiter

http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showth...limiter+defeat

Terry stating throttle closure of Procede, next thing you know he implements it also

http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showth...timing+control

Terry stating Canbus and canbus code clearing is useless compared to BT tool (post 24), which I am sure BT tool will be obsolete once JB incorporates Can into their tune
http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showth...ghlight=canbus

Terry claiming timing control is being used in JB tune which in fact we all now know its not controlled by the JB tune, but I am sure with canbus upgrade for JB it will be implemented then

http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showth...cps+offsetting


Terry claimed logging and user adjustables were useless and it would lead to user error, only to find him implement a loggable chart a year later and allow his users to make changes, which IMO isn't even clear because it doesn't log fast enough!
This was just five minutes of searching over there...Really isn't hard to find but since I met you a couple of times, I just wanted you to read it yourself....I am not a fan of a tune and realize competition is the best for consumers, but I want to buy a product that states the truth!

[A418t81]

Originally Posted by Sparky66

Are you a lawyer?......because your twist on words makes it hard to maintain factual information from fiction. Firstly, I've been around on these forums a lot longer than based on your assumptions. Secondly I have had every Procede that Shiv ever released for the N54 and I have never drilled any holes. The fact that it always had solid state electronics rather than just a bunch of resistors is the reason that its power demand asked for a proper power supply.


Maybe it's best we rewind back to late 2006/2007 where Terry was just a user and not a N54 tuner on these very forums. You want to know why he was really banned?........here is one example of his obnoxious behaviour on E90Post.
Terry was going out of his way trying his best to bring down every Procede forum, trying to gather information from Shiv because he wanted to prove he could create his own competitive tune. He even went so far as reading the then un-encrypted Procede tuner's code and exposing it on these forums for anyone with the knowledge to simulate and make an exact copy of the tune..............rmdvrs is that ethical???

Before people blurt out and spout whatever knowledge they think they have on this subject, I think it's best for all of you to do some research here. I find it very hard to acknowledge anything Terry has acheived up to this point because of his past attitude on these forums. Yes he has succeeded and he is improving his tune but maybe he should be more humble about the direction his tune is taking because they are not his ideas.

I apologise fully for taking this thread off topic .....I won't be doing it again.
Looking forward to what can be improved upon for our N54 tunes road ahead.

I know you have a googly eye'd view of tuning the N54, but I have some news for you, it works just like every other car out there. Also, Terry removed a single character or two from the hex code of a "encrypted" xede calibration file and loaded it in a Haltech tuning program to show that the xede, indeed, was a haltech piece of hardware. If you think that calibration file lead to Terry's "eureka," you clearly have no understanding of how this all works.

Biasing the widebands, the fuel pressure signal, the map signal, etc all just took logging, and trial and error once he had the hardware necessary to test it all. Same for the PID based boost control. Guess what, NONE of these things were new at that time in the world of piggyback management. They weren't invented by Shiv, Terry, or anybody else affiliated with the N54. There are resources online where people who know A LOT about these very esoteric things congregate and discuss ideas. Most of them are homebrew management systems like megasquirt forums, etc.

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Originally Posted by TakeOne

hmmm, what about making a meth instal even more seamless. Something different than what the JB3 is like now, and even easier than the procede.
Im talking about it basically being BUILT for direct plug and play?
Just a thought.....

how bout wireless meth
jk lol

[supracg]

Originally Posted by A418t81

I know you have a googly eye'd view of tuning the N54, but I have some news for you, it works just like every other car out there. Also, Terry removed a single character or two from the hex code of a "encrypted" xede calibration file and loaded it in a Haltech tuning program to show that the xede, indeed, was a haltech piece of hardware. If you think that calibration file lead to Terry's "eureka," you clearly have no understanding of how this all works.

Biasing the widebands, the fuel pressure signal, the map signal, etc all just took logging, and trial and error once he had the hardware necessary to test it all. Same for the PID based boost control. Guess what, NONE of these things were new at that time in the world of piggyback management. They weren't invented by Shiv, Terry, or anybody else affiliated with the N54. There are resources online where people who know A LOT about these very esoteric things congregate and discuss ideas. Most of them are homebrew management systems like megasquirt forums, etc.

Haha wow, so once again terry tried to hack the code? Ridiculous..its called ethics, and even if you are not worried about ethics..that's trying to "copy" EXACTLY what was downplayed by terry and co. a few months ago..wow just wow

EDIT: also, a couple hex characters in 100s of lines of code? ofcourse there will be overlaps???

[cn555ic]

Originally Posted by supracg

Haha wow, so once again terry tried to hack the code? Ridiculous..its called ethics, and even if you are not worried about ethics..that's trying to "copy" EXACTLY what was downplayed by terry and co. a few months ago..wow just wow

Although he lacks ethics, he tries to make it up with customer service, which IMO is really great from what I have read and seen! It would be great if he had both attributes covered, then It would be totally different, at least to me!

[AlpineG05]

Why is this thread flooded with bullshit?

[RiXst3r]

Originally Posted by A418t81

Terry removed a single character or two from the hex code of a "encrypted" xede calibration file and loaded it in a Haltech tuning program

Terry is the one that suggested using that method to be able to open it, but actually (unfortunately) I *think* I was the first one to actually do it... lol

A lot can change in over 3 years... get over it people.