[HoustonRider]

Completely hypothetical:

complete and new loan or lease on a new car (price is irrelevant). You sign all the docs as you are in total agreement to the deal and financing/lease payment.

In the finance office, there are some pre-completed offers for the "extras" like glass coverage, wheel and tire, etc. FS guy says "I'm tossing these in for free, paperwork has $0 on it" the items are nowhere to be found on any of the docs you sign. You sign and your docs do not reflect you paid for these.

Few weeks later, you review the contracts with the financial institution and the docs are different, the items that were "included" and would not impact your rate/price/fees are there, and looks like you agreed to purchase these add-ons.

* basically it appears on your original negotiated price, they included these add-ons, unbeknownst to you. Problem is, they had to separate them for the contracts to be valid, and you already have your docs, what are the chances of you seeing the changed ones from the financial institution.


What would you do?

[1MOREMOD]

Go bat shit crazy.

[csu87]

take your original signed docs to the lender/dealer and get them to correct it.

[Stage1]

walk away...far away

[HoustonRider]

walk away? from what?

Deal is done, payments are made, trade is gone, you have been driving/riding in/on the new vehicle.

[someguywithanm3]

A friend of mine bought a slightly used E350 a few months ago. She negotiated the monthly price and term with the manager (x for 60 months). There was some "miscommunication" and financing changed it to 72 months (same monthly payment). They added warranties etc.

Long story short, I reluctantly went to the dealer a few days after the deal was made and I got them to cancel everything extra. She got the original deal back.

[ideliver]

you got the price you wanted...and more shit than you were able to bargain for for the same price...what's to be mad about?

They could go back to the original deal, same price with no extras

[tony20009]

Originally Posted by csu87

take your original signed docs to the lender/dealer and get them to correct it.

...correct the information the lending institution has, yes...and if they didn't I'd be in touch with the State Attorney General's office.

All the best.

[HoustonRider]

If they didn't load these products in the deal, the overall price would have been a few thousand less and the monthly would have been lower as well.

[SheaButter]

Originally Posted by HoustonRider

Completely hypothetical:

complete and new loan or lease on a new car (price is irrelevant). You sign all the docs as you are in total agreement to the deal and financing/lease payment.

In the finance office, there are some pre-completed offers for the "extras" like glass coverage, wheel and tire, etc. FS guy says "I'm tossing these in for free, paperwork has $0 on it" the items are nowhere to be found on any of the docs you sign. You sign and your docs do not reflect you paid for these.

Few weeks later, you review the contracts with the financial institution and the docs are different, the items that were "included" and would not impact your rate/price/fees are there, and looks like you agreed to purchase these add-ons.

* basically it appears on your original negotiated price, they included these add-ons, unbeknownst to you. Problem is, they had to separate them for the contracts to be valid, and you already have your docs, what are the chances of you seeing the changed ones from the financial institution.


What would you do?

Go back and demand an even BETTER deal, PLUS the discounts. Otherwise you're returning the car, and going to buy the SAME one from another dealership. I'd ask for an extra $500 on top of the free crap. Just for the inconvenience fee.

[RickFLM4]

If the price you are paying for the car and "extras" is what you negotiated before knowing they were rolling this stuff into it, it sounds like you'd be ok paying that price without them. You could complain to the attorney general but not sure you have a "loss" since you agreed to the price for the car alone. In this scenario, theoretically you could have purchased the car for less... but you agreed to that price before knowing they were including the "extras". So, for example, if you objected and said you don't want the "extras" they probably would not have changed the price you agree to pay. It is a slimy business practice without a doubt and changing the docs is likely a violation of some dealer regulation, but you have to ask yourself whether or not it is worth your time to pursue a remedy.

If I misunderstood and you think they slipped in the "extras" and somehow charged you more than you agreed to pay for the car, then cancel the contracts and get a refund.

Ultimately you might want to simply call the dealership general manager to complain and ask for some money back. If they decline,then tell others in this forum, other Forums, Yelp, etc. who this hypothetical dealer is. That may be a better use of time.

[wdb]

Pay cash. Fuck those so-called finance managers.

If the situation is not actually hypothetical, sue them for fraud.

[tony20009]

Originally Posted by HoustonRider

Completely hypothetical:

complete and new loan or lease on a new car (price is irrelevant). You sign all the docs as you are in total agreement to the deal and financing/lease payment.

In the finance office, there are some pre-completed offers for the "extras" like glass coverage, wheel and tire, etc. FS guy says "I'm tossing these in for free, paperwork has $0 on it" the items are nowhere to be found on any of the docs you sign. You sign and your docs do not reflect you paid for these.

Few weeks later, you review the contracts with the financial institution and the docs are different, the items that were "included" and would not impact your rate/price/fees are there, and looks like you agreed to purchase these add-ons.

* basically it appears on your original negotiated price, they included these add-ons, unbeknownst to you. Problem is, they had to separate them for the contracts to be valid, and you already have your docs, what are the chances of you seeing the changed ones from the financial institution.


What would you do?

Originally Posted by RickFLM4

If the price you are paying for the car and "extras" is what you negotiated before knowing they were rolling this stuff into it, it sounds like you'd be ok paying that price without them. You could complain to the attorney general but not sure you have a "loss" since you agreed to the price for the car alone. In this scenario, theoretically you could have purchased the car for less... but you agreed to that price before knowing they were including the "extras". So, for example, if you objected and said you don't want the "extras" they probably would not have changed the price you agree to pay. It is a slimy business practice without a doubt and changing the docs is likely a violation of some dealer regulation, but you have to ask yourself whether or not it is worth your time to pursue a remedy.

If I misunderstood and you think they slipped in the "extras" and somehow charged you more than you agreed to pay for the car, then cancel the contracts and get a refund.

Ultimately you might want to simply call the dealership general manager to complain and ask for some money back. If they decline,then tell others in this forum, other Forums, Yelp, etc. who this hypothetical dealer is. That may be a better use of time.

In light of the post above, OP, I want ask you to clarify something for us.

• Do the papers the financing institution have show you paying $0.00 for those extras?
• Is the total sum you agreed to pay with the dealer the same as the total price the financing institution expects you pay?

All the best.

[FogCityM3]

Confusing post...do you have evidence that the dealer will honor these extras? Why did you sign something with no documentation of the extras? Did you not get a copy of what you signed? If you didn't, ask for that copy. If the dealer won't give it to you, ask the financing institution for what the dealer sent them. Are the total payments/price from the dealer the same as what the financial institution said they were. These questions need to be answered before rendering advice.

Now if you have evidence of the contract where dealer will perform the "extras", it is signed by you and the dealer, and the price/payments of what the dealer stated are the same as the institution, I don't see anything wrong other than that you potentially may have gotten a lower price without the "extras", but that's after the negotiations purportedly ended. Not the smartest thing to do from a dealer perspective, quite bizarre actually (as reveals they got more than adequate margin), and if all these things were thrown in, some may have said wait a minute, if this is all "free" what is the real price without these "free extras". Nothing is really free. Alternatively, the finance guy could have just not said anything and said this is the deal and not bring up the "extras" and there would be no question about anything. Again more clarification needed.

[NickyC]

Originally Posted by wdb

Pay cash. Fuck those so-called finance managers.

Hello, let me welcome you to 'Murica. Here in the land of the debt enslaved and the home of the sheep, we buy crap we don't need with money we don't have. I'm not sure where you come from but 'round here seven year car loans are now king.

[VB5ER]

If you are comfortable with the current payment, just cancel the extra Warranties and the refunds will be taken off your loan balance. If you want to lower the payments, get with the lender to restructure the loan after the refunds are applied to the balance. I would use this as an opportunity to keep the Warranties and negotiate a better price for them in lieu of cancelling them all together. The dealership makes money off those extras and would rather make a little than nothing at all. Big pain to do all this, but sometimes life can be a personal challenge. Don't let em win, hypothetically.

[Nkc]

Hypothetically, I have no idea.

[HoustonRider]

Originally Posted by FogCityM3

Confusing post...do you have evidence that the dealer will honor these extras? Why did you sign something with no documentation of the extras? Did you not get a copy of what you signed? If you didn't, ask for that copy. If the dealer won't give it to you, ask the financing institution for what the dealer sent them. Are the total payments/price from the dealer the same as what the financial institution said they were. These questions need to be answered before rendering advice.

Now if you have evidence of the contract where dealer will perform the "extras", it is signed by you and the dealer, and the price/payments of what the dealer stated are the same as the institution, I don't see anything wrong other than that you potentially may have gotten a lower price without the "extras", but that's after the negotiations purportedly ended. Not the smartest thing to do from a dealer perspective, quite bizarre actually (as reveals they got more than adequate margin), and if all these things were thrown in, some may have said wait a minute, if this is all "free" what is the real price without these "free extras". Nothing is really free. Alternatively, the finance guy could have just not said anything and said this is the deal and not bring up the "extras" and there would be no question about anything. Again more clarification needed.

not really confusing... My post said I signed contracts with $0 cost on these extras, and the docs BMWFS sent me showed contracts WITH costs on them (the costs were added AFTER they were signed).


Bottom line, on a $97,000 deal, the dealer decided to "back in" some add-ons (finance guys get spiffs on these ad-ons when they are sold). My signed docs do not show these add-ons cost me anything.

I called BMWFS and they emailed me all the docs. Totally different on several of them, some don't even match my signature. My long (3ft long contract) from BMWFS has these products added in, where my copy does not.

So the agreed price actually included these add-ons from the start, without my knowledge. The only way the dealer could "sell" these to me, was to present them in a way that I would agree/sign the add-on docs.

The AG complaint has been filed, BMW Customer Relations is aware as has contacted the dealer. The Dealer GM called me Friday and "was shocked", but would look into it as he thinks he may have a larger problem.

He will contact me this week with what he thinks is an amicable resolve, but not sure refunding those $3,000 in add-ons will be worth me continuing with my complaint and beating these guys up on every forum and social media review site I can find.

[dsad1]

I am still confused, you negotiated a price, and from what I understand the final deal was for the price you negotiated.

They reworked the negotiated price to add some kick ins for the finance department, but what you are paying stayed the same. I am not sure why it matters to you, unless I am just being slow and not understanding this correctly.

[tony20009]

Originally Posted by HoustonRider

....
He will contact me this week with what he thinks is an amicable resolve, but not sure refunding those $3,000 in add-ons will be worth me continuing with my complaint and beating these guys up on every forum and social media review site I can find.

I think that'd be a waste of time and effort unless all those sites and what not are pertinent to Houston car buyers. That is to say, as a D.C. resident, I don't give a damn what you write about that Houston dealer or how "off" it's practices are because I'm never going to shop for a car in Houston.

If you insist on dragging the dealer's reputation through the muck, file a BBB complaint. At least that way, readers of your complaint will know that you aren't just "blowing smoke" and misrepresenting facts.

Originally Posted by djsaad1

I am still confused, you negotiated a price, and from what I understand the final deal was for the price you negotiated.

They reworked the negotiated price to add some kick ins for the finance department, but what you are paying stayed the same. I am not sure why it matters to you, unless I am just being slow and not understanding this correctly.

I find that strange too and like you wonder what the OP is actually grumbling about.


All the best.

[RickFLM4]

Originally Posted by djsaad1

I am still confused, you negotiated a price, and from what I understand the final deal was for the price you negotiated.

They reworked the negotiated price to add some kick ins for the finance department, but what you are paying stayed the same. I am not sure why it matters to you, unless I am just being slow and not understanding this correctly.

OP was effectively sold products he didn't want. OP agreed to the car price without these add-ons, so didn't really suffer a loss but believes the dealer should have provided a better price on the car without them included, which may or may not be the case.

If unaware of the practice, the people most pissed off should be the dealership owner and GM because the finance guy pissed away margin to roll in F&I products and earn more commission for himself, while potentially exposing the dealership to a regulatory violation (and fines). If OP was willing to pay the same price without these products, it would have been a higher margin for the dealership because they wouldn't have to pay the companies that provide the add-ons.

[dsad1]

Originally Posted by RickFLM4

OP was effectively sold products he didn't want. OP agreed to the car price without these add-ons, so didn't really suffer a loss but believes the dealer should have provided a better price on the car without them included, which may or may not be the case.

If unaware of the practice, the people most pissed off should be the dealership owner and GM because the finance guy pissed away margin to roll in F&I products and earn more commission for himself, while potentially exposing the dealership to a regulatory violation (and fines). If OP was willing to pay the same price without these products, it would have been a higher margin for the dealership because they wouldn't have to pay the companies that provide the add-ons.

I might be in the minority, but if I negotiate a price let's say at $1000 over invoice I know the dealer is making more than that $1000. At the same time I don't really care how he gets to that number as long as I get to pay what was agreed upon.

In this case the dealer gave the price to the customer that was agreed upon, the dealer shouldn't be blamed because they are making more on the car than the customer thought.

I understand the internal dealership issues, but that shouldn't effect the customer in this situation.