[YouAreMyWorld]

Hello everyone, I haven't been keeping up with the tuning scene as much as I used to (considering I now have an N55 and we're not getting much love currently), but I've stumbled upon some posts of people saying that they're running E85--straight.

Now, last I recall is that running E85 wouldn't be possible as our injectors aren't large enough to spray enough E85 to compensate the demand when under load. And that's leaving out the obvious things that would need to be upgraded, such as the fuel pump, etc.

With the advent of TBI and Port Injection, are 'upgraded' injectors no longer necessary as the aforementioned extra fueling methods compensate for our injector size?

For us unfortunate souls that have no choice but to use pump 91, is running straight E85 that much better? Personally I wouldn't mind running straight E85.. what I have a problem with is accurately measuring every time in the case of a mixture. I've seen a good enough number of horror stories on our own platform to not want to deal with that.

[andydna15]

I'm running full e85. All that's needed is a Stage 2 Lpfp and TBI. My understanding was that the injectors were never the issue, but the hpfp which could not keep up with the demand of full e85.If you have access to E85 I would recommend using it, even if you don't run full E85

[Miller335]

Where are you doing your research cause I havent read one thing about the injectors being the weak link?
HPFP yes, injectors not so much.

[Fred_Boosted]

E60 is the most popular blend, most people will see a noticeable power increase with E30.

Like they all said, HPFP will be the thing holding you back on full E85

[MRamos]

I'm running straight E85 currently. At a certain level (E60) there's no additional power gains. At that point it's more of a convince factor. All I have is the stage 2 fuel it pump.

[YouAreMyWorld]

Originally Posted by Miller335

Where are you doing your research cause I havent read one thing about the injectors being the weak link?
HPFP yes, injectors not so much.

I read that in threads from literally almost a year ago tbh, when I had my N54 and was beginning to get more into modding. That was apparently the consensus at the time; hell TBI wasn't even mentioned at that time--or at least it wasn't as widely used as it is now.

[Kallibrated]

I run straight E85.... with port injection.

The fuel system (stock INJ and HPFP) don't seem to mind at all.

[neroneuman]

Originally Posted by MRamos

I'm running straight E85 currently. At a certain level (E60) there's no additional power gains. At that point it's more of a convince factor. All I have is the stage 2 fuel it pump.

Higher blends after E60 wont provide any increase in power? only cooling the engine?

[Fred_Boosted]

Originally Posted by neroneuman

Higher blends after E60 wont provide any increase in power? only cooling the engine?

Yes and no.

The thing is, E60 will cool the engine/increase octane rating of the fuel. So when you tune the car, they can run more boost AKA more aggressive tune. MHD and JB4 all have E60 maps if I'm correct. You will feel noticeable power gain and it will definitely show on dyno.

[neroneuman]

Currently I'm running E50 with E85 BEF and Walbro 455. I can go upto E60 with this setup.
I'm running 18psi on stock turbos and stock TMAP. Also I wont be able to run more boost than 21-23 on stockers reliably even in midrange. But I'm trying to find if running Full E85 with TBI will make a lot of difference compared to E50/60 given that boost will be 21-23 max.

[135Pats]

Straight E85 for about a year now...in the winter I'll mix in some 260gt to help w cold starts and make up for the octane drop of winter blend ethanol.

Car is not daily driven obviously.

[BQTuning]

Anyone check injectors if they are gunked up after a year using straight E85 ? I heard one car report on this, don't know exactly if the car was being driven daily as I hear if your car is garaged most of the time that's where the problem will come in.

[YouAreMyWorld]

Originally Posted by BuraQ

Anyone check injectors if they are gunked up after a year using straight E85 ? I heard one car report on this, don't know exactly if the car was being driven daily as I hear if your car is garaged most of the time that's where the problem will come in.

That's one of the "issues" I read that was popping up on some EVO's running straight E85. Apparently the way to remedy this, for them, was to use this: http://www.jayracing.com/index.php?m...roducts_id=263

It says "Universal Fitment", but is it actually?

[135Pats]

Originally Posted by BuraQ

Anyone check injectors if they are gunked up after a year using straight E85 ? I heard one car report on this, don't know exactly if the car was being driven daily as I hear if your car is garaged most of the time that's where the problem will come in.

I don't put more than 30-50 miles a week on the 1er but I try to make a habit out of running a 1/2 tank of straight pump gas every few months to clean out the fuel system. Gasoline does a great job of removing any deposits left on the injectors from high concentration ethanol. TBH at this point it's purely conjecture with N54s.

Reason why in theory it would be more prone to happening on cars which sit for long periods of time (we're talking months, not days or weeks) is due to the ethanol breaking down into sugar. Not ideal

Originally Posted by YouAreMyWorld

That's one of the "issues" I read that was popping up on some EVO's running straight E85. Apparently the way to remedy this, for them, was to use this: http://www.jayracing.com/index.php?m...roducts_id=263

It says "Universal Fitment", but is it actually?

Interesting....It's just a series of barbs so should fit with some potential changes to hose ID.

Either way I don't think it's a huge concern with the injection pressure the piezos generate.

[YouAreMyWorld]

Would one run into any issues running straight e85 on a bone stock vehicle, with no tune, literally just stock?

You could say "what's the point", but it's merely an experiment before inevitably having to upgrade the LPFP, and getting the vehicle a little more adjusted to what's ahead.

Just curious on the possible pro's and cons.

Reason why I'm asking is because of reading this: http://www.fillyourtankwithfreedom.c...-only-car.html


Gotta love the link title, lmaooo.

BuraQ
135Pats

FREEEEEEDOMMMM

[bradsm87]

Yes, you would max fuel trims and throw codes. You need a tune for it.

[BQTuning]

Originally Posted by YouAreMyWorld

Would one run into any issues running straight e85 on a bone stock vehicle, with no tune, literally just stock?

You could say "what's the point", but it's merely an experiment before inevitably having to upgrade the LPFP, and getting the vehicle a little more adjusted to what's ahead.

Just curious on the possible pro's and cons.



Gotta love the link title, lmaooo.

BuraQ
135Pats

FREEEEEEDOMMMM

It a very valid point, if gas prices start to sky rocket there is an alternative gas to go to. However putting straight E85 in with stock tune will, well, land you into getting SES and CEL. You will need a map to run that fuel with nothing else done to it.

The only changes that would need to be addressed is the AFR, Scalars, Fuel pressure (if newer N54) and Timing

[csu87]

Originally Posted by YouAreMyWorld

Would one run into any issues running straight e85 on a bone stock vehicle, with no tune, literally just stock?

You could say "what's the point", but it's merely an experiment before inevitably having to upgrade the LPFP, and getting the vehicle a little more adjusted to what's ahead.

Just curious on the possible pro's and cons.

Reason why I'm asking is because of reading this: http://www.fillyourtankwithfreedom.c...-only-car.html


Gotta love the link title, lmaooo.

BuraQ
135Pats

FREEEEEEDOMMMM

Cant do it without tuning for it. This car doesnt have enough wiggle room on fueling to auto adjust.

Can do it with tuning and no lpfp, just dont expect any better power or economy.

[135Pats]

Originally Posted by YouAreMyWorld

Would one run into any issues running straight e85 on a bone stock vehicle, with no tune, literally just stock?

You could say "what's the point", but it's merely an experiment before inevitably having to upgrade the LPFP, and getting the vehicle a little more adjusted to what's ahead.

Just curious on the possible pro's and cons.

Reason why I'm asking is because of reading this: http://www.fillyourtankwithfreedom.c...-only-car.html


Gotta love the link title, lmaooo.

BuraQ
135Pats

FREEEEEEDOMMMM

As others have said, straight e85 would cause substantial issues on a stock tune and/or stock fuel system.

You need a LOT more fuel from a hardware standpoint, and you'd also need to adjust scalar a an absolute minimum. Ideally you'd flatten the IAT comp tables and fiddle w a few other tables to really reap the benefits.

I wouldn't recommend more than E20 on a stock car. Even then, the only reason would be for testing purposes (IE if you're trying to track down timing pulls and want to rule out octane as a cause)

For reference, @26PSI on an HTA3586 I have a bit of fuel headroom...but not a ton. That's with a stg3+external FPR, port injection, etc.

[Sered]

Originally Posted by YouAreMyWorld

I read that in threads from literally almost a year ago tbh, when I had my N54 and was beginning to get more into modding. That was apparently the consensus at the time; hell TBI wasn't even mentioned at that time--or at least it wasn't as widely used as it is now.

One year ago TBI was most definitely being talked about. PI already existed. Not sure where you were reading. This forum doesn't keep up very well, but PI was definitely in circulation for the bigger turbo guys.