[benton0311]

Magnuson-Moss Act:

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/.../warranty.shtm

Per the Magnuson-Moss act of 1975 your warranty in the United States cannot automatically be voided. It can only be denied for repairs in which the damage was SPECIFICALLY CAUSED by aftermarket modification or tampering.

BMW NA cannot say that your warranty is void because you have any aftermarket part. However, if that part happens to cause damage then at that point the warranty will not cover that damage that was caused by you or your use of an aftermarket part.

Case in point:

If you have a Procede (Xede), then your warranty is fully intact except for the Procede unit itself which would be warrantied by Vishnu or Chip Torque. They cannot deny you ANY repairs unless the damage is PROVEN to be caused by the Procede.

Now, if you took that Procede and ran it at 100% torque settings on 91 octane, caused severe detonation and wrecked a piston then you are fully liable for all damage.

Same goes for if you are a novice and tried to install your Procede and ended up frying the ECU somehow by mis-wiring it. Then you would be liable for all damage caused by your actions.

One thing to consider is in the case of catless aftermarket downpipes/catless exhausts. While these will not cause any damage to the car if tuned for (i.e. preventing overboost) they are in violation of federal emissions law. The dealership could have you by the balls on that one because they could very easily report to to the authorities for tampering with emissions equipment.


*The use of Procede/Xede was just an example. Exact same goes for any aftermarket part including JB2, Active Processor, E-Manage, Intakes, etc.

[O-cha]

That act only applies to parts of OEM spec not made by the manufacturer. It's not meant to, and does not, protect you from altering a car to run out of it's OEM specifications.

[asdflkijd]

Originally Posted by O-cha

That act only applies to parts of OEM spec not made by the manufacturer. It's not meant to, and does not, protect you from altering a car to run out of it's OEM specifications.

So we have no right to demand a through inspection relating the cause? what if it ends up not being the tune? Will BMW still be able to refuse warranty repairs?

[benton0311]

It's not that it protects you from altering a car to run outside of it's OEM specifications. It's that it has to be proven that your aftermarket modification caused the damage. Not: you have an aftermarket part so your warranty is voided.

I.E. You have a JB2 installed on your car. You bring it in for service and they should note that and keep it in mind in case you bring the car in for a potentially related warranty repair. Your car gets towed in for engine repair and it was the timing chain tensioner that broke. That's not on you - they still have to warranty that because you and the JB2 weren't the cause

[uberschnell]

Manufacturer’s warranties warranty against 1. manufacturer’s defects 2. implied expectations.

1. If a part is fails to provide its intended service because of a manufacturing defect then it is warrantied, regardless of other circumstances that could have affected it. (we effd up)
2. If a manufacturer implies that all parts are covered for a period of time and a part fails before then that part is covered. (shite happens)

#2 is the easiest to deny because often times it states “when used as intended”. #1 is harder because the part will fail regardless of circumstance, i.e. HPFP.

[O-cha]

Originally Posted by benton0311

I.E. You have a JB2 installed on your car. You bring it in for service and they should note that and keep it in mind in case you bring the car in for a potentially related warranty repair. Your car gets towed in for engine repair and it was the timing chain tensioner that broke. That's not on you - they still have to warranty that because you and the JB2 weren't the cause

Right because that's totally un related (lol @ timing chain tensioner by the way) but if a turbo blows or even a rod gets thrown through the block they don't have to warranty that and the burden of proof will fall on you even in court as it's pretty easy to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the JB2 ran the turbo and or engine out of specifications leading to a failure.

[benton0311]

Right. Problem is people are coming away with the understanding that if they install any aftermarket part on their car that their warranty is "VOIDED"

Obviously they won't warranty a part from another manufacturer which you installed. And obviously they won't repair damage that you were responsible for causing. But if you didn't cause the damage then all warranties are still in place.

As long as your aftermarket tuning/intake/etc. doesn't cause any damage then there is no issue. If something breaks (and on a German car it WILL) and you didn't cause it then it will be fixed under warranty.

Long story short: Know you rights and know your aftermarket components. Know what an aftermarket part does and any potential effects it may have. Chances are, a properly tuned chip/piggy back won't cause any problems at all if used as directed. Turn up the wick on bad gas, install it wrong, let the car overheat, etc. and you'll have to pay for your actions.

[BuLoOoSki]

The service manage at my dealership is a good friend of mine and I asked him about the warranty if the car is chipped
according to him hes like "you can do what ever you want to the car and you are free to bring it to the dealership with the mods as long as there isn't anything wrong with the car. BUT if something happens to the car, and we can relate the problem to the mod you have, then we would void your warranty."

[asdflkijd]

gotcha. thanks for clarifying, I was just so intimidated by all the hard core documents.

[FirstClass]

Originally Posted by O-cha

Right because that's totally un related (lol @ timing chain tensioner by the way) but if a turbo blows or even a rod gets thrown through the block they don't have to warranty that and the burden of proof will fall on you even in court as it's pretty easy to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the JB2 ran the turbo and or engine out of specifications leading to a failure.

+1
You read it as if BMW has to prove your mod caused it, all they have to prove is the mod made it run outside spec and your whole powertrain warranty is void. (whether or not the failure would have happened without the mod because who can know?)

[ganeil]

See here and here.

[scottp999]

You have to have the $ to pay a lawyer to make that act work for you anyway. Who's willing to go to court for years over a depreciating hunk of metal and spend 10's of thousands of $ on lawyers. The lawyers are the only ones who really win.

[GGreek5]

Originally Posted by benton0311

Right. Problem is people are coming away with the understanding that if they install any aftermarket part on their car that their warranty is "VOIDED"

Obviously they won't warranty a part from another manufacturer which you installed. And obviously they won't repair damage that you were responsible for causing. But if you didn't cause the damage then all warranties are still in place.

As long as your aftermarket tuning/intake/etc. doesn't cause any damage then there is no issue. If something breaks (and on a German car it WILL) and you didn't cause it then it will be fixed under warranty.

Long story short: Know you rights and know your aftermarket components. Know what an aftermarket part does and any potential effects it may have. Chances are, a properly tuned chip/piggy back won't cause any problems at all if used as directed. Turn up the wick on bad gas, install it wrong, let the car overheat, etc. and you'll have to pay for your actions.

Wow. I was trying to say this in the other post and no one understood it.
Well put.

[stressdoc]

The way it works in the real world of BMW NA is that when you bring your car into get fixed and the tech/SA finds a mod, several things can happen. First, the mod can be permanently entered into your service record. Second, if the mod is on a list of stuff that the higher ups have said are verbotten, you can lose your warranty for the area affected by the mod. Period. This has been reported here multiple times.

What the SIB provides is a pretty clear statement that if your engine has a piggy or flash then there is a very good chance that you will lose engine and drivetrain warranty coverage. Radio breaks, no problem. But turbo wastegate, etc., then you have a problem, because the regional reps are going to give your local dealership a big headache about any warranty work. The SAs are stuck, because the info/data from the ECUs is processed at a much higher level.

The Dinan situation is evidently an evolving and very complex one. It is apparent that the tenor of the relationship between Dinan and BMW AG has changed in the past few years. What the consequences of this are for BMW owners with Dinan mods is a bit obtuse. For example, say I get a Dinan flash from a Dinan shop in St. Louis. I have an engine problem, and bring my car into my local dealership here in Columbia, who I trust to do first-rate service. But the dealer here is not a Dinan shop. A far as they are concerned, I have no BMW warranty, so they have to deal with Dinan, with whom they have no clear legal relationship. In this situation, I am at the mercy of the goodwill of Dinan inc., because I'm not at a dealer that gives a damn about Dinan, indeed, they are likely to be antagonistic. Not good.

[FikseGTS]

Save yourself an Automatic Headache and remove the ecu mods before going to the dealer.....

[ganeil]

Originally Posted by FikseGTS

Save yourself an Automatic Headache and remove the ecu mods before going to the dealer.....

Or be honest and "pay for playing."

[5soko]

umm so what i have been reading right?

unless something goes wrong with your car, this is the only way you need to take the tune out in case bmw trys to blame the tune on the cause. they cant void warranty for a oil change and because they see it.

but if you take out the tune, there is no physical evidence. they cannot deny warranty.

[Mr. 5]

Originally Posted by BuLoOoSki

The service manage at my dealership is a good friend of mine and I asked him about the warranty if the car is chipped
according to him hes like "you can do what ever you want to the car and you are free to bring it to the dealership with the mods as long as there isn't anything wrong with the car. BUT if something happens to the car, and we can relate the problem to the mod you have, then we would void your warranty."

Let's think about this for a second. You only need a warranty when something goes wrong. I dare you to bring your modded car into the dealer when one of your turbos is shot.

Here's another thing:
People love to quote the MM act, but what does it all come down to?
Money!

Are you going to spend thousands on a lawyer or thousands on your car?
BMW already has the lawyers ready and waiting for those who come in claiming the MM act.

[Mr. 5]

Originally Posted by 5soko335i

umm so what i have been reading right?

unless something goes wrong with your car, this is the only way you need to take the tune out in case bmw trys to blame the tune on the cause. they cant void warranty for a oil change and because they see it.

but if you take out the tune, there is no physical evidence. they cannot deny warranty.

You're telling me that there's no physical evidence?
Every time I switch out a tune or take one out and go to stock, I can definitely tell that the ECU was tampered with.

What about the marks on the tab to get the wire holder out of the slot?
What about the tape residue on the wires?
No residue? Did you clean the wires? So since you cleaned the wires the markings and numbers only on the wires that you touched are faded a bit while all the others haven't?

I'm not saying that I don't mod my car. I'm just saying that there seems to be 2 extremes here.

There are the people that are too confident claiming the MM act.
There are the other people who are so paranoid that they're scared to change the tires to a different brand.

All I'm saying is be smart about it and don't take things for granted!

[5soko]

hey hey, i didnt see it but have been reading it in some of these threads. FWIW, a SSTT, it baically doesnt really leave any physical evidence what so ever. but im not sure if they can void your warranty any other way aka by looking at values and codes? how can they not assume the TMAP is faulty at one point or another? your ran your car at high altitude? i mean as Jeff said the SSTT is invisibile to even the new v81 dme.

just some speculation to what some people have been saying and a example.

btw i posted in your dyno sticky thread

[Mr. 5]

Originally Posted by 5soko335i

hey hey, i didnt see it but have been reading it in some of these threads. FWIW, a SSTT, it baically doesnt really leave any physical evidence what so ever. but im not sure if they can void your warranty any other way aka by looking at values and codes? how can they not assume the TMAP is faulty at one point or another? your ran your car at high altitude? i mean as Jeff said the SSTT is invisibile to even the new v81 dme.

just some speculation to what some people have been saying and a example.

btw i posted in your dyno sticky thread

How did you unclip the clip for the SSTT?
Did you use a screwdriver or something else maybe?

I'll bet there are markings underneath or near the clip from taking it off.

[Brian GT PRO]

BMW NA is acting like the Gestapo, and I plan on doing something about it. I have contacted the legal dept. at SEMA, I am a SEMA member for over 10 years, and might see the possibility of a class action lawsuit on behelf of this whole situation. I am one who has 2400 miles on a car that had the entire powertrain warranty voided for getting my sunroof fixed (yes that's right guys, fixed my sunroof voided my powertrain), OH, and BTW in the process, they scratched the hell out of my quarter panel and backed up into another car dented my back bumper, and scratched the bumper too!!!