[tetsuo111]

Non-M half shafts: 38mm diameter

M3 half shafts: 44mm diameter

The spline part on the wheel carrier-side that inserts into the hub may / may not be the same size. The collar nut that secures the axle to the hub are identical between Non-M and M.

Does anybody know if the hubs are interchangeable?

If need be, I'll simply order both and measure, but thought to check-in first with the community.

Thanks.

http://bmwfans.info/parts-catalog/E9.../output_shaft/

http://bmwfans.info/parts-catalog/E9...heel_bearings/

[LMB335IS]

Originally Posted by tetsuo111

Non-M half shafts: 38mm diameter

M3 half shafts: 44mm diameter

The spline part on the wheel carrier-side that inserts into the hub may / may not be the same size. The collar nut that secures the axle to the hub are identical between Non-M and M.

Does anybody know if the hubs are interchangeable?

If need be, I'll simply order both and measure, but thought to check-in first with the community.

Thanks.

http://bmwfans.info/parts-catalog/E9.../output_shaft/

http://bmwfans.info/parts-catalog/E9...heel_bearings/

M3 axles fit 335i hubs when you use the M3 diff. I guess non M axles would fit the M3 hubs but length may be off.

What are you trying to do, if I may ask?

[tetsuo111]

Thank you, LMB335IS.

To clarify, I think that you're confirming that both M and Non-M half-shafts fit both hub types. This is very helpful. Thanks.

I was confident that anyone with the background to answer my question would probably wonder why / what's going on.

The suspension is getting refreshed from ZSP to M3 / JRZ 2-way. This project is meant to be holistic, not limiting to control arms / bushings, but to include the spindles, too. The M spindles differ from Non-M in weight, dimensions, strut clamping, control arm geometry, and brake caliper mounting points. This allows use of the M3 toe arms. The bushings are getting replaced while we're in there. So are the ARBs, bearings and hubs. The full-Monty of M3 chassis stiffeners and braces are already installed.

Since the spindles / carriers differ in brake caliper attachment, new brakes (well, really only caliper brackets) are required. I took the opportunity to upgrade brakes to M3 / StopTech / PFC. The MC will get swapped to the 25 mm M3 version while I'm in there, to optimize the hydraulics as designed. I would like to upgrade the ABS / DSC pump, but the logic resides in the ECU, so without a way to upgrade the SW in MSV80, I don't see a point to that part.

There are no plans to retrofit the M3 drivetrain, as much as I would like to. The CANBUS / computer stuff is too ambitious for me. The Performance Gearing LSD resides inside a 328i pumpkin, and uses Non-M drive axles. Hence my question.

Originally Posted by LMB335IS

M3 axles fit 335i hubs when you use the M3 diff. I guess non M axles would fit the M3 hubs but length may be off.

What are you trying to do, if I may ask?

[LMB335IS]

Great project. Did you consider just buying a complete rear subframe (I'm assuming it would bolt up in a wagon like it does in a E90/92) and having the Mdiff, axles, and just modifying the driveshaft? They're fairly easy to source at a good price when you buy the whole unit. It doesn't require the GWS which I was able to do only because I have a DCT

I don't know anything about the N51/52 DME but to install the M3 DSC/ABS in my 335is didn't require anything as far as the DME was concerned just some creative coding and programming to get the non M car to recognize the M module and program it to the car.

[tetsuo111]

LMB335IS, after reading your signature mods, it looks like you already traveled the road I'm just starting. Strong work and great incentive for people like me. I didn't realize ABS / DSC can be coded into our cars - this is very encouraging and I'll research to implement on the wagon.

Did you change the hydraulic rack and pinion from the RWD 16:1 to M3 12.5:1? That one's also in my project queue for the winter. I found a source for the hard-to-find 1M 135 bar PS pump, reasonably priced.

Re: M3 rear subframe.

This was the starting line for my suspension upgrades, for the same reasons you listed. The M3 subframe should be a direct replacement on the E91, just like the other E9X platforms. I was especially interested in having the large M3 diff included in the deal, and only needing to organize one deal, rather than several parts orders.

I changed plans for a couple of reasons. 1) N52 power is an oxymoron, therefore I chose to drop weight to compensate. The M3 diff weighs over 103 lbs, the 328i diff is only 69 lbs. 2) Mission creep - as you know, the subframe swap requires modding the prop shaft in length and rebalancing. Not such a big deal, but at this point the benefit seemed trivial in comparison to the added cost and complexity. 3) I have a spare Performance Gearing 30/60 diff in 3.91 FD that needs a new home. Like this wagon... I may be wrong in some assumptions, but that was my thought process. If I had N54/55 power, there would be more gains to be had by doing the complete rear end swap, like you did, IMO.

Originally Posted by LMB335IS

Great project. Did you consider just buying a complete rear subframe (I'm assuming it would bolt up in a wagon like it does in a E90/92) and having the Mdiff, axles, and just modifying the driveshaft? They're fairly easy to source at a good price when you buy the whole unit. It doesn't require the GWS which I was able to do only because I have a DCT

I don't know anything about the N51/52 DME but to install the M3 DSC/ABS in my 335is didn't require anything as far as the DME was concerned just some creative coding and programming to get the non M car to recognize the M module and program it to the car.

[LMB335IS]

Originally Posted by tetsuo111

LMB335IS, after reading your signature mods, it looks like you already traveled the road I'm just starting. Strong work and great incentive for people like me. I didn't realize ABS / DSC can be coded into our cars - this is very encouraging and I'll research to implement on the wagon.

Did you change the hydraulic rack and pinion from the RWD 16:1 to M3 12.5:1? That one's also in my project queue for the winter. I found a source for the hard-to-find 1M 135 bar PS pump, reasonably priced.

Re: M3 rear subframe.

This was the starting line for my suspension upgrades, for the same reasons you listed. The M3 subframe should be a direct replacement on the E91, just like the other E9X platforms. I was especially interested in having the large M3 diff included in the deal, and only needing to organize one deal, rather than several parts orders.

I changed plans for a couple of reasons. 1) N52 power is an oxymoron, therefore I chose to drop weight to compensate. The M3 diff weighs over 103 lbs, the 328i diff is only 69 lbs. 2) Mission creep - as you know, the subframe swap requires modding the prop shaft in length and rebalancing. Not such a big deal, but at this point the benefit seemed trivial in comparison to the added cost and complexity. 3) I have a spare Performance Gearing 30/60 diff in 3.91 FD that needs a new home. Like this wagon... I may be wrong in some assumptions, but that was my thought process. If I had N54/55 power, there would be more gains to be had by doing the complete rear end swap, like you did, IMO.

M3 rack swap is on the to-do list, especially getting servotronic as a working option in the M Drive menu. Pm me that 1M PS pump info if it's not a closely guarded secret, please!

The M3 diff is a beast, you're absolutely correct there and you have very valid reasons to skip it. Keep it simple is a great way to approach projects and life in general.

I had a guy PM a few weeks back about some info. He takes wagons and does a full N54/DCT drivetrain swap and then sells them. Really interesting stuff. It's a real shame the E91 N54 variant never made it over here, they're beautiful rides when done correctly.

[DR-JEKL]

Originally Posted by LMB335IS

Great project. Did you consider just buying a complete rear subframe (I'm assuming it would bolt up in a wagon like it does in a E90/92) and having the Mdiff, axles, and just modifying the driveshaft? They're fairly easy to source at a good price when you buy the whole unit. It doesn't require the GWS which I was able to do only because I have a DCT

I don't know anything about the N51/52 DME but to install the M3 DSC/ABS in my 335is didn't require anything as far as the DME was concerned just some creative coding and programming to get the non M car to recognize the M module and program it to the car.

Wow you have a fully functioning ///M DSC setup?

I have a full M3 driveline with brakes would be interested in this.

After recently fitting the M3 rack would be very keen on the 1M PS pump also as the steering at low speeds is kinda heavy and annoying...

[LMB335IS]

Originally Posted by DR-JEKL

Wow you have a fully functioning ///M DSC setup?

I have a full M3 driveline with brakes would be interested in this.

After recently fitting the M3 rack would be very keen on the 1M PS pump also as the steering at low speeds is kinda heavy and annoying...

I'll PM you the info as soon as I get a chance. I learned the hack from a guy in Sydney while we had a group doing the M3 DCT retrofit to our non M DCT cars.

[tetsuo111]

If not too much trouble, I would be grateful for the servotronic hack also. Thank you.

I'm reaching out to the 1M PS pump seller tomorrow. Will share contact info after confirming units are in stock.

Originally Posted by LMB335IS

I'll PM you the info as soon as I get a chance. I learned the hack from a guy in Sydney while we had a group doing the M3 DCT retrofit to our non M DCT cars.

[marconi118]

I am interested in the ///M DSC setup and 1M pump and servotronic control
as I have the M3 steering rack and full rear M3 subframe and front suspension with M3 brakes...

[LMB335IS]

Ok, here's some starter info on getting a M3 ABS/DSC unit to work in a non M car. I have a 2013 335is with DCT that had been retrofitted with the M3 GWS, KOMBI, full M3 drivetrain w/ LSD, M3 GTS DCT flash, M3 center console trim with working Drivelogic switch and a installed three switch Power/EDC/DSC off unit, not yet connected at that point. Now how this will play out with a Step, I have no idea, the manual trans should be fairly easy since that was a option on the M3. I'm working towards having MDM and a working MDrive setup so you have to have the M3 ABS/DSC unit and SZL (clockspring) to get there. The final piece is a IKMOS (1M) custom ROM that will allow you access MDM and the MDrive menu just like in the 1M since it was the only N54 model to have these features.

You will need a working BMW Standard Tools 2.12 software setup and ISTA/D is VERY handy for this. And you really need to be comfortable using it and being able to troubleshoot any errors that pop up.

Cruise control has not been sorted out yet. I had $544 (CC Dynamic braking) and I've downgraded to $540 (CC, only one offered on M3) and recoded, went through M3 TRC files looking for differences, etc. I'm missing something or haven't reset something or...I'm working on it. So if CC is very important to you this could be problematic.

Pre LCI will need to change their yaw sensor to the M3 piece. LCI should be fine but check part numbers on realOEM to be sure yours will work. My car had the correct one. Front wheel sensors are different. I have the M ones but haven't installed them because they weren't causing errors, BUT it may be why my CC doesn't work, I doubt it but possible. Pretty much any M3 ABS/DSC unit will work, externally they're the same, I always try to get the newest one possible. You will need a M3 clockspring, it's part of the ABS/DSC system. Be aware of the different types, rain sensor, lighting, etc. so match up the PN's to what you need.

You will need to wire the DSC unit (pin 41), I have the PN for the connector somewhere, directly to your DSC button on the dash, whatever pin that may be. The M3 signal does not go through the JBBF like ours does so it needs to be bypassed. I have mine wired directly to the DSC off button on the console switches, you will not have that option. There will no longer be a two press option, it's either DSC on or off. And while I'm thinking about it, it's really mandatory IMO to have a LSD before doing this. There is no Ediff or any other traction control nannies in the M3 DSC. You'll truly be one wheeling it if you don't, dangerous.

The magic to getting the car to recognize the DSC unit as a M3 piece is changing the VO. The VO is stored in the CAS and NFRM. When you code everyone usually just defaults to the CAS when reading the car out. What I've done is create two different VO's. The one stored under CAS is my regular 335is VO with some of the changes I've made over the years like adding FLA, 2MD, 2MK, and a few others. Under NFRM I changed the model identifier code to KG91 (EU LCI E92 M3 left hand drive) along with all the other various VO changes I've made for other things. This will allow the car to think it's a M3 when it reads out the VO when using NCS Expert and choosing NFRM as the module to read the VO from. The date may need to be changed as well depending on what yr vehicle you have. I choose the EU M3 over the NA just because it will default to Euro MDM and Euro settings when the DSC is coded in. You will know you've done this correctly when you process ECUs and in the ECU tree the DSC shows as MDSC. You can find model code identifiers with realOEM by going through the model selection menu and it will show next to the browse parts button. See photo

You will still need to do the DSC valve calibration, bleed the brakes, steering angle sensor, and I used Winkfp to flash/update VIN in the DSC along with clearing all learned variants in the Engine menu in INPA. Hopefully this will get you close. This link, while long has a lot of good info for this, pages 5-15 or so. https://b m w.s p o o l s t r e e t. com/threads/discussion-about-issues-encountered-whilst-converting-to-m3-flash-and-gws.3011/ delete the spaces.

[LMB335IS]

Originally Posted by tetsuo111

If not too much trouble, I would be grateful for the servotronic hack also. Thank you.

I'm reaching out to the 1M PS pump seller tomorrow. Will share contact info after confirming units are in stock.

I don't have a servo hack...yet. Once I get mine and install it I'll hopefully get it figured out. Besides wiring up the servo unit, to make it adjustable may require a different ROM. I don't know if the 1M had adjustable servo, unlike the M3 with Mdrive which does. And to have Mdrive, I'm almost positive a custom hybrid ROM is necessary which leaves anyone that's not a N54 out of luck.

[tetsuo111]

Originally Posted by LMB335IS

Ok, here's some starter info on getting a M3 ABS/DSC unit to work in a non M car.....

LMB335IS Thanks a million for sharing your progress on this. I'm surprised more readers haven't remarked - this information is priceless for anyone wanting to implement the system in a Non-M platform.

Have you noticed an improvement resulting from the move to M ABS control?

- Does the system allow more yaw before the nannies kick-in?

- You mentioned wiring DSC PIN 41 to the switch on the dash. Are you referring to the door lock / DTC switch beneath the emergency hazard flasher? Did you consider wiring this to the DSC switch on your MS center console (part of the 'Power / DSC" buttons).

Thanks again for sharing.

[LMB335IS]

Originally Posted by tetsuo111

LMB335IS Thanks a million for sharing your progress on this. I'm surprised more readers haven't remarked - this information is priceless for anyone wanting to implement the system in a Non-M platform.

Have you noticed an improvement resulting from the move to M ABS control?

- Does the system allow more yaw before the nannies kick-in?

- You mentioned wiring DSC PIN 41 to the switch on the dash. Are you referring to the door lock / DTC switch beneath the emergency hazard flasher? Did you consider wiring this to the DSC switch on your MS center console (part of the 'Power / DSC" buttons).

Thanks again for sharing.

It's much looser with the M3 unit that's why it's important to have a LSD installed. If you have NCS Dummy, take a look at MK_87.C0F (335i DSC software) and MK_M3.C08 (M3 software). There's almost a total absence of electronic nannies present in the M3 software. There's a couple oversteer friction coefficients that can be played with but that's about it. It's either on or off until I get MDM (Euro of course) functional for the time being.

Yes, that's the switch I'm talking about. I do have mine wired directly to the M3 center console switch and replaced the door lock/DTC switch with the M3 door lock/TPMS switch. I just need to dig into the wiring diagrams to see how the TPMS portion is wired in.

You're welcome. It's a great mod to have.

[tlow98]

Just stopping by to thank you all for the amazing thread.

Thanks for the great info!

[marconi118]

yes thanks for the great info!


for my 07 E92 N54 6MT do I need only the M3 ABS unit?


Is it needed to change the whole unit or only the electronic module leaving the valve body of the 335i?

this could avoid to mess with brake oil bleeding

an used M3 ABS block could do the trick or has it to be new?

[LMB335IS]

Originally Posted by marconi118

yes thanks for the great info!


for my 07 E92 N54 6MT do I need only the M3 ABS unit?


Is it needed to change the whole unit or only the electronic module leaving the valve body of the 335i?

this could avoid to mess with brake oil bleeding

an used M3 ABS block could do the trick or has it to be new?

You'll need the M3 longitudinal sensor and M3 SZL (clockspring) as well. Make sure you get the right clockspring for your options, rain sensor, xenon, etc. I don't know if you can get the module off the ABS block without pulling it all out but you might as well because you'll need to run a wire from pin 41 of the module connector to the appropriate pin on the back of your DTC/DSC switch or you won't be able to turn DSC off. The M3 is directly wired while the 335i is ran through the JBBF. You may or may not need to replace the wheel sensors since your car is older. Mine is a 2013 and it was fine. And of course you'll need ISTA and BMW Standard tools from bleeding, DSC valve calibration, steering angle sensor, changing the VO, writing the VIN, etc.

Used is fine. I bought a complete unit used for $300 USD.

[BB_cuda]

tetsuo111, I read early part of thread but not whole thing. I might be repeating what someone else says. I don't have time right now to read through all before commenting. I have done some of the updates you mention to my 2011 335d.

the M3 specific toe links will not work on your 335 type rear sub frame. You have to use both the M3 specific rear hubs AND the M# subframe for this to be a go.

I have the M3 rear lower camber links, guide links, upper wishbones, and rear E92 type swaybar. I replaced the 335d toe links with adjustable ones from bimmerworld with spherical bushings in them.

The be able to use the lower camber arms, I had to buy an M3 conversion kit from Ground Control. The shocks are M3 specific and have a lower eye to properly fasten to the camber arms. The spring rates are custom at 550 #/in R and 440#/in F.

[marconi118]

do you know if disabling the 335i 07 6mt DSC by a long press will disable the eDiff ?

[LMB335IS]

Originally Posted by marconi118

do you know if disabling the 335i 07 6mt DSC by a long press will disable the eDiff ?

The ediff has to be coded out to disable it. If you dont have a LSD I highly recommend leaving it functional though. Disabling it without a LSD turns the car into a one wheel wonder.

[tetsuo111]

Thanks for this, BB_cuda

You may have saved a big headache here. I understood the M3 toe arms to work with M3 rear spindles AND Non-M rear subframe. Given your guidance, I'll need to revisit those control arms. Thanks.

Any durability challenges using the Bimmerworld adjustable toe arms on the street? I'm less concerned about noise, more concerned about longevity of the bearings without seals on the street.

Could you speak further to your experience using the lower control arms? Specifically, do the M3 lower control arms pair seamlessly with M3-specific dampers and springs? I thought the GC conversion kit is for M3 dampers used with non-M lower camber arms.

Thanks again.

Originally Posted by BB_cuda

the M3 specific toe links will not work on your 335 type rear sub frame. You have to use both the M3 specific rear hubs AND the M# subframe for this to be a go.

I have the M3 rear lower camber links, guide links, upper wishbones, and rear E92 type swaybar. I replaced the 335d toe links with adjustable ones from bimmerworld with spherical bushings in them.

The be able to use the lower camber arms, I had to buy an M3 conversion kit from Ground Control. The shocks are M3 specific and have a lower eye to properly fasten to the camber arms. The spring rates are custom at 550 #/in R and 440#/in F.

[marconi118]

Originally Posted by LMB335IS

The ediff has to be coded out to disable it. If you dont have a LSD I highly recommend leaving it functional though. Disabling it without a LSD turns the car into a one wheel wonder.

I have a complete M3 suspension with brakes and M3 LSD

What do you advise to recode? ediff, brake fading compensation ....?

only temporary before I go the M3 MDM route later this year