[Sportstick]

Sometimes it is useful/interesting to remind ourselves of what choices we didn't make, would never make, and how lucky we are to be at the other end of the universe. This is particularly well stated.


https://www.freep.com/story/money/ca...ce/1825160002/

[MarkDemma]

Yes BUT ... Chevy Malibu??

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by MarkDemma

Yes BUT ... Chevy Malibu??

I understand that’s not what most of us would consider. I think the point was that for a low relative price for a basic family sedan (no new Bimmers close to that!), it is possible to engineer a superior dynamic experience than Toyota seems to be able to accomplish. I’ve rented both of these and fully agree about the difference between them.

[CP911]

I rented one for my visit to Austin, TX for the 2017 F1 US Grand Prix. I disagree with the author that it lacked feel. I felt nothing but the NA 4-banger's vibration through the tinny construction of the car as it made a ton of noise trying to get up to highway speed. The car is total rubbish. It just gets you from point A to point B reliably. If that's what you want, then good for you, but I'll take my chances with anything else out there.

[Never_Enough]

If you wanna fall asleep at the wheel, buy a Toyota.

[GiofromNJ]

Originally Posted by Never_Enough

If you wanna fall asleep at the wheel, buy a Toyota.

...even the car wants to off itself...

you tell it to stop and it keeps on rollin!

[insanecoder]

Lotsa people are not into cars and just want to get from A to B without calling the mechanic
this is their car I suppose
no drama
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz
hey everybodys different

[Run Silent]

Yep - I spent nearly 20 years in the automotive business before ending up in my current career. People still ask me for auto buying advice. I always tell those who are not 'car people' the same thing. If you are looking at a vehicle the same way you look at buying a refrigerator - i.e. as an appliance, then go with a Toyota or Honda. Both will work reliably and frugally and get you from point A to B with little drama. They will occupy a place in your life just like a fridge does, an appliance to get a job done.

For those who want a bit more excitement or who enjoy cars/driving, then these are not the choices for you.

[stbm5]

i disagree with that review. i drove a camry last year and thought it was pretty decent for what it is. basic transport. of course its not a thrilling drive but its not terrible either. its reliable transportation thats inexpensive and practical. no one is buying a camry because its a high performance sedan. they want a 200/mo payment, decent gas mileage and for it to not break down. i suspect in those regards its daily perfect.

[Germanauto]

This article is bull. Yes the Camry is boring, but once they started bringing the shitty Malibu into the mix they lost all credibility. An inferior product that is butt ugly with mediocre reliability and residuals Give me a break.

This is a typical metro Detroit mentality. There is still a strain of anti-Japanese mentality in the area. Way less than there used to be but it's sad that it's still there. Build a better product then people would buy your shit. GM is one of the worst automakers in the world. They treated my father and so many others like garbage.

I'm a Michigan native and that always bugged me. It's backwards thinking. I know for a fact that is the motive of this article.

[Z K]

The Camry is very boring. I drove one for a while. It was very comfortable and dependable. The one I had had over 200k miles and ran no different than new. It was great for long drives on straight roads. But it was so boring I couldn't stand it after a year. I stuck on stiffer sport shocks and summer tires in an effort to make it more exciting... but there was no helping the car.

I totally understand why people would want it though. It's exactly what people want - a car as a appliance to get from point A to B with the minimum amount of fuss.

The author brought up the Malibu? I would not get a Malibu over a Camry. The Camry would be much more reliable and last longer. The Malibu is a terrible car and after a year lose 50% of its resale value.

[Not Sure]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

This article is bull. Yes the Camry is boring, but once they started bringing the shitty Malibu into the mix they lost all credibility. An inferior product that is butt ugly with mediocre reliability and residuals Give me a break.

This is a typical metro Detroit mentality. There is still a strain of anti-Japanese mentality in the area. Way less than there used to be but it's sad that it's still there. Build a better product then people would buy your shit. GM is one of the worst automakers in the world. They treated my father and so many others like garbage.

I'm a Michigan native and that always bugged me. It's backwards thinking. I know for a fact that is the motive of this article.

exactly right. it's blatant pandering to the big 3, which only makes them more complacent and less inclined to innovate or improve.

[Red Bread]

After my work parking garage converted itself to an amusement park ride, I had a month in a Camry and a second month in an Elantra. Both had 35k miles and were basic, four cylinders with roughly the same options.

The Camry felt beaten to within minutes of its expiration date. Shocks were blown, brakes were warped, transmission seemed lost. Interestingly, it also had very poor interior storage and the dumbest feature, a permanent rear center headrest, which looked absolutely tortured after a month of having a LATCH strap smashing it down. I really hated this car as it had no strong suit, aside from not exploding or failing to run, nothing stood out.

The Elantra was surprisingly more of a real car and even with the same mileage and being a rental car, felt almost new. Everything worked better. It approached being fun to drive and the suspension was much less Buick-esque and the brakes actually provided some feedback. Storage was much more practical and it was easier to get the kid seat in and out. How does Toyota F up this fundamental thing?!

Both had F30 style EPS, both were borderline dangerously slow, both got decent mileage and were comically quieter and more civilized than my previous GTI or the new one. Both are a size that as a 6'2" father of a four year old, a dog owner and a person with lots of outdoor activities I don't really understand. Why would you want something this large as a daily driver?

But from my experience, if anyone still buys sedans in five or ten years, the Hyundai deserves to be the sales leader, the Camry is getting too close to a crusty old Buick.

[FC4]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

Sometimes it is useful/interesting to remind ourselves of what choices we didn't make, would never make, and how lucky we are to be at the other end of the universe.

LOL...easy there, big guy. With a '15 228i and a '18 330i GT, how far do you really feel towards "the other end?"

[ASAP]

FWIW, If I wanted an average boring car to drive, I think I would choose the Accord Sport. It seems to do the job...


...ah who am I kidding, a CPO 3 series for the same price is available, cmon.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by ASAP

FWIW, If I wanted an average boring car to drive, I think I would choose the Accord Sport. It seems to do the job...


...ah who am I kidding, a CPO 3 series for the same price is available, cmon.

Is it sad that I actually have to think about which one of those I'd rather have?

I'd say that maybe the G2x would fix things, but with no manuals, it won't appear on my radar.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Is it sad that I actually have to think about which one of those I'd rather have?

I'd say that maybe the G2x would fix things, but with no manuals, it won't appear on my radar.

Well FWIW, I'd still choose the RWD option... also the Accord CVT wouldn't be for everyone. I think only 2 good FWD cars exist in this world, the GTI and Civic Type R... if someone put a gun to my head and said you need a FWD car, the GTI would take top spot no doubt.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by ASAP

Well FWIW, I'd still choose the RWD option... also the Accord CVT wouldn't be for everyone. I think only 2 good FWD cars exist in this world, the GTI and Civic Type R... if someone put a gun to my head and said you need a FWD car, the GTI would take top spot no doubt.

Funny, I just chose between those two. Now make a CTR in the body of a Mazda 3 hatch and I'd switch camps.

[Z K]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

But from my experience, if anyone still buys sedans in five or ten years, the Hyundai deserves to be the sales leader, the Camry is getting too close to a crusty old Buick.

I had the opposite experience with Hyundai. They appear to be good on the surface but mechanically they are terrible cars. The reliability and technology under the hood is no where close to the Toyota and Honda. Hyundai/Kia is usually 1 generation behind on engine and drive train tech. On the surface they appear to be good, but drive both for 200k miles and one will be much more reliable at 200k.

My friend purchased a new Santa Fe, the car would stall out while driving. Hyundai could not figure out what was causing it. He ended up selling at a loss because he could not trust the safety of his family inside the car. Engine stopping while on the highway or anywhere is very dangerous.

[backhill]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

This article is bull. Yes the Camry is boring, but once they started bringing the shitty Malibu into the mix they lost all credibility. An inferior product that is butt ugly with mediocre reliability and residuals Give me a break.

This is a typical metro Detroit mentality. There is still a strain of anti-Japanese mentality in the area. Way less than there used to be but it's sad that it's still there. Build a better product then people would buy your shit. GM is one of the worst automakers in the world. They treated my father and so many others like garbage.

I'm a Michigan native and that always bugged me. It's backwards thinking. I know for a fact that is the motive of this article.

Spot on. It's the FreeP. Used to be in the Auto Industry and at GM, and my FIL is still a union guy for Ford. That's the mentality EVERYONE here has.

Any anti-Japanese motoring article will be received well. I'd say domestics (if you can even call them that anymore) outnumber Japanese vehicles 10:1 if not 15:1 on your average commute here. Go more than 50 miles in any direction from downtown Detroit and Japanese eco-boxes rule the road.

[Z K]

Originally Posted by backhill

Spot on. It's the FreeP. Used to be in the Auto Industry and at GM, and my FIL is still a union guy for Ford. That's the mentality EVERYONE here has.

Any anti-Japanese motoring article will be received well. I'd say domestics (if you can even call them that anymore) outnumber Japanese vehicles 10:1 if not 15:1 on your average commute here. Go more than 50 miles in any direction from downtown Detroit and Japanese eco-boxes rule the road.

That article is definitely biased. Throwing the Malibu in? There's many other American cars that are better than that! Ones I feel like are competitive - things like the Ford Focus hatchback and the Chevy Volt.

[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by backhill

Spot on. It's the FreeP. Used to be in the Auto Industry and at GM, and my FIL is still a union guy for Ford. That's the mentality EVERYONE here has.

Any anti-Japanese motoring article will be received well. I'd say domestics (if you can even call them that anymore) outnumber Japanese vehicles 10:1 if not 15:1 on your average commute here. Go more than 50 miles in any direction from downtown Detroit and Japanese eco-boxes rule the road.

It saddens me thinking of what the Detroit region could have been had they opened their arms to foreign automakers back in the day. It could have been the Silicon Valley of the entire automotive industry. Imagine all those automakers having their NA HQ and factories in Michigan!

Instead the politicians bought into the Big 3's lobbying and everybody set up shop out of state. The region lives and dies with the Big 3. Even in the good times their stock is still trading at mediocre prices, the state is forever confined to middle-class status. Generally, if you want to make real $$ you leave for greener pastures, like my family did.