[Marrken]

Hello all.
This is my first post. I wish it was a nice writeup about how I replaced my air springs or that all you really need to get those aluminum bolts out of the starter is patience and a good little 7/16 box end wrench.
Unfortunately it is in a field I am NOT so familiar with and that is the diagnostics and coding side.

MY DME IS TOAST

Recap:
Original E70 DME water damaged tried sending for repair and not possible.
Purchased used E90 DME and was able to change the VIN as well as upload E70 code to it.
I am unable to synch the CAS and DME - tried ISTA-P/+, INPA and DIS

I have only setup my laptop and cable since start of Dec.

[Sensible_]

Originally Posted by Marrken

Hello all.
This is my first post. I wish it was a nice writeup about how I replaced my air springs or that all you really need to get those aluminum bolts out of the starter is patience and a good little 7/16 box end wrench.
Unfortunately it is in a field I am NOT so familiar with and that is the diagnostics and coding side.

MY DME IS TOAST

Recap:
Original E70 DME water damaged tried sending for repair and not possible.
Purchased used E90 DME and was able to change the VIN as well as upload E70 code to it.
I am unable to synch the CAS and DME - tried ISTA-P/+, INPA and DIS

I have only setup my laptop and cable since start of Dec.

How did you change the DME VIN? What tools are you using?

You can't just install a used DME in another car as it will be synced/paired with a matching CAS and key.

The easiest way is to normally buy a used DME/CAS/Key set...

You can do it with just the DME but you'll need specialist tools and knowledge...

[bluewater328]

I'd give hassmaschine a ring. He's got some experience and could at least tell you what's in the realm of possibilities, if not be a resource to fix it.

[hassmaschine]

He already messaged me and I told him to post here.

I'm pretty sure you can synch a used DME to your original CAS (you can write an ISN to the CAS, but not to the DME), but that's not something I have done - I'm sure somebody here knows how to do so and can help him out.

Other options are sending the DME/CAS/KEY to a shop that can mate them, or an EWS delete (which I can do now for the MSx80 dmes).

IMO replacing the CAS/KEY/DME from another car is not a great idea because you will have a bitch of a time ordering replacement keys. We also don't know if he has comfort access.

[Sensible_]

I'd suggest talking to Levanime

1. What hassmaschine says is true. A used DME/CAS/KEY set isn't a great way, however it will get the car up and running with no problems. On a car as old as the e9x chassis, it's a very cost effective solution IMHO.

2. Another option which would be the best is to clone your DME. Just read the flash, write it to the used DME then program and code the used DME with winkfp and NCS Expert respectively. Even though your DME is damaged you may still be able to read the dflash.

There is s third option reading ISN and writing it to CAS. But I don't prefer this method.

[hassmaschine]

#2 isn't possible without special hardware, and you can't even do that unless you also have the boot passwords. You can't read the ISN or boot passwords either unless you unlock them first. When you do a full read of a DME, these areas of memory get blanked out. You can't write to them either without boot mode..

Most of the places offering "cloning" just write the ISN to the CAS, they don't actually clone the DME because they don't know how. Honestly I think that makes the most sense anyway, since you get to keep your original key and CAS (not sure why that wouldn't be preferable).

Also, the OP has an X5, not an E90 - but they are similar when it comes to the DME/CAS.

[Sensible_]

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

#2 isn't possible without special hardware, and you can't even do that unless you also have the boot passwords. You can't read the ISN or boot passwords either unless you unlock them first. When you do a full read of a DME, these areas of memory get blanked out. You can't write to them either without boot mode..

Most of the places offering "cloning" just write the ISN to the CAS, they don't actually clone the DME because they don't know how. Honestly I think that makes the most sense anyway, since you get to keep your original key and CAS (not sure why that wouldn't be preferable).

Also, the OP has an X5, not an E90 - but they are similar when it comes to the DME/CAS.

Interesting. I didn't know that. I assumed it wasn't well protected as there are lots of guides that suggest you can clone the MSV8X and MSVX etc etc???? I confess I never tried.

http://blog.obdii365.com/2018/07/12/...ecu-with-ktag/

I'm sure I read somewhere BMW Explorer can do it also, with a small modification to support PTCAN2..

I meant the ISN extract from DME and insert into CAS is not my preferred option. I always went with cloning ECUs or just replacing the whole set. But each to there own. The 3rd option still requires advanced tools though.

[hassmaschine]

It can't clone the full DME because you still need the boot password to read and write to the protected memory area. Also, those Chinese clones are even worse than a real ktag, which IMO is kindof crap to begin with.. but I digress.

You can clone an MSV70 etc. easier because you don't need boot passwords (but you still need physical access). MSV80 is even more of a pain in the ass because you have to solder on a bunch of missing components to the PCB to even get boot mode to work. On the tri-core DMEs, it's easier to copy the ISN from the donor into the original CAS (I just don't know how to do that myself, I only know it can be done).

[Levanime]

Originally Posted by Sensible_

How did you change the DME VIN? What tools are you using?

You can't just install a used DME in another car as it will be synced/paired with a matching CAS and key.

The easiest way is to normally buy a used DME/CAS/Key set...

You can do it with just the DME but you'll need specialist tools and knowledge...

I would be careful suggesting this this way on E70
even on E90/E60 engine will start and run but will have lots of lights as for different VIN in CAS, that he can not change with standard tools.

on E70 its even worse, you know on E70 both 6HP and 8HP have EWS active, so in addition to lights, car will not move.

As mentioned, proper way is to either Clone original DME to replacement one, if its readable and is bosch MPC or Tricore (I missed engine info) if using clone ktag
or ori ktag can clone siemens tricore too,
or, go to someone who has necessary tools to do it correctly.

I know someone in Toronto who can do it but I'm afraid it will be considered as ad and admins will block me.

[hassmaschine]

OP: a temporary (or permanent maybe) solution would be to just delete EWS in the DME. It would at least be driveable as-is and can be done remotely via OBD.

[Marrken]

I really appreciate all the support.

I will connect and check more information after I connect again later.

I have VERY little experience with all these tools that I have acquired. I ordered a kit off of eBay with all the software and cables. I work in IT so the install while REALLY tedious was manageable.

After watching several videos and reading lots of posts I was able to take a used E90 DME (from eBay and taken from a 2007 328i) and change the VIN to match my 2007 E70 as well as install E70 code onto it using Winkfp.

So now the only stumbling block is the synch with CAS.

After reading what you have posted above - I would much prefer to copy the ISN from the DME to the CAS and keep my keys working fine. I also don't like 'rolling the dice' on someone else's used parts.

[Marrken]

I just got back from the garage. I tried taking a look with ISTA/P and telling it that I had replaced the DME.

It showed me fault codes that could not be removed:

DME/DDE
- 0x2F49 (12105) (0x58)
DME: Immobilizer anti-tampering protection
- 0x2FA4 (12196) (0x58)
DME: Incorrect data record

Additional information for DME:

Variant: MSV80
Bus Connection: PT-CAN
Still programmable: Unlimited
Hardware number: 00
Part number of basic control unit: 7602220
Part number of programmed control unit (actual): 8609170
Part number of programmed control unit (specified): 8609170
Programming status: 1

Model series: E70

Type/description: FE43 / E70 N52B30 LHD US

Vehicle integration level(Plant): E070-06-12-550
Vehicle integration level(Old): E070-16-11-500
Vehicle integration level(New): E070-16-11-500

ISTA/P version: 3.65.2.000

[Sensible_]

Originally Posted by Marrken

I just got back from the garage. I tried taking a look with ISTA/P and telling it that I had replaced the DME.

It showed me fault codes that could not be removed:

DME/DDE
- 0x2F49 (12105) (0x58)
DME: Immobilizer anti-tampering protection
- 0x2FA4 (12196) (0x58)
DME: Incorrect data record

Additional information for DME:

Variant: MSV80
Bus Connection: PT-CAN
Still programmable: Unlimited
Hardware number: 00
Part number of basic control unit: 7602220
Part number of programmed control unit (actual): 8609170
Part number of programmed control unit (specified): 8609170
Programming status: 1

Model series: E70

Type/description: FE43 / E70 N52B30 LHD US

Vehicle integration level(Plant): E070-06-12-550
Vehicle integration level(Old): E070-16-11-500
Vehicle integration level(New): E070-16-11-500

ISTA/P version: 3.65.2.000

Ok, so you now need to read your ISN from the MSV80 DME and write it to the CAS. BMW Standard Tools cant do this.

There are many tools that can, but they are very expensive, Autohex II for example. Too expensive for one off use which is why a shop or specialist is a good idea. Simply take your used DME and your CAS to them.

If you want to do it yourself I guess the cheapest would be CGDI Prog BMW. You could buy it then sell it on after use to recoup some money.

Or just buy a suitable CAS/DME/Key set which will likely be the cheapest option. If careful you won't have any problems. This is why I suggested it to you. But hey, if money is no object...

[Levanime]

cgdi cant do cas3+ afaik

with other set it will start but will not move as isn will be different in egs and cas.
if hassmaschine can disable EWS in MSV80 remotely (did not know it was possible) thats easiest.
next is to go to shop.

he also will need to fix power class, otherwise car will run on low power, and for that he needs to zero working hours.
but I believe hassmaschine has workaround for that too as long as he does not need to sign flash

[hassmaschine]

yeah, I didn't realize he had 2FA4. That definitely needs fixed. At the very least, you need to have the power class changed in the tune.

yes, I can delete EWS on MSx80/81 and MSV70 DMEs. The tri-core DMEs can be done remotely. Technically, they still can't steal your car or hotwire it (easily) because the CAS won't activate the starter without the right key.

[hassmaschine]

Originally Posted by Sensible_

Or just buy a suitable CAS/DME/Key set which will likely be the cheapest option. If careful you won't have any problems. This is why I suggested it to you. But hey, if money is no object...

that won't work for him because the transmission also has EWS (hadn't thought of that). He would need to have the computer in the transmission swapped out too for the one that matches the cas/dme/key, which I'm guessing is not so simple.

[Sensible_]

Ok, I'll accept that you guys don't like that method. You are both for more experienced in this area than myself.

My local shop has a BMW explorer though and I've seen it done many times. BMW Explorer can definitely deal with the CAS - EGS. I've 100% seen it, so I assume other clones may be able to.

Changing the power class isn't a problem either.

[Levanime]

yeah, bmw explorer can read ISN on 6hp on e70 and write into the cas
and reset ews on 8hp on f series

[Marrken]

Update:
I found someone local who was able to match the CAS to the DME.
I brought it home excited like a little puppy and put the modules back in.
Tried to start...
galloping with hints of wanting to start and a heavy unburned fuel smell in the garage.

The X5 has been sitting unstated since September.
It is also stupid cold tonight and for the next few days and I can't feel my hands.
currently -16 C with a windchill of -27.
and it is going to be colder than that for the daytime high over the next couple of days.

ISTA/P
Replacement followup - Successful
Update Integration Level - Failed
Vehicle Order Alignment - successful

Fault codes look good except for DSC: steering -angle sensor, adjustment; JDE: Mirror/spray nozzle heating

[Terraphantm]

Originally Posted by Levanime

cgdi cant do cas3+ afaik

with other set it will start but will not move as isn will be different in egs and cas.
if hassmaschine can disable EWS in MSV80 remotely (did not know it was possible) thats easiest.
next is to go to shop.

he also will need to fix power class, otherwise car will run on low power, and for that he needs to zero working hours.
but I believe hassmaschine has workaround for that too as long as he does not need to sign flash

We don’t have a good method to zero the hours (there’s a function that clearly is designed to do so, but invoking it is still a mystery to me), but we can modify the program to just ignore the hours limit. Or as hass said, the power class can also be changed in the tune (but then it would also have to be changed in the CAS, and I don’t know if that has an hours limit as well).

[hassmaschine]

I *think* you can change it in the CAS, but not the DME. I'm not certain about that though.

Is there a way to read/write the eeprom on MSx80? Boot mode? I saw Ktag had an option for the eeprom, but Ktag is pretty crummy..

[Marrken]

Not sure if you caught my last post.

I'm not getting CAS related messages anymore. But there is definitely something wrong with the tune of the engine. How can I correct that?

I'm going to take a look and see if the DME version has changed with WinKFP.