[- Paul -]

Anyone use them?

I've just put some of this in

http://www.millersoils.net/1_Millers...ETAIL-dps4.htm

The claims on the bottle seem a little optimistic to me..

BHP up by upto 17.5%
MPG up by upto 7%
upto 70% less exhaust smoke

cetane rating of fuel up by upto 4 numbers

[xenon]

As soon as I read this:

By addition to fuel in the ratio 1 part to 1000 parts [1 ml/L]. May also be used at double strength for additional performance.

... all credibility vanished.

As if to say, mix it in this ratio of 1 to 1000 - but if you use more it's even better!! Hardly scientific.

An additive that allows you to double the dose sounds to me like an additive that does sweet FA.

Still, I'm a cynical sod so you'll have to let us know.

[gr4z]

Think Fifth Gear did a test on these in their last series - proven to actually make BHP and MPG worse!

[- Paul -]

I'm a cynic too - only driven it for 10 miles so far and only thing I've really noticed so far is the sound - seems quieter/smoother. Could be the placebo effect though....

[- Paul -]

Originally Posted by gr4z

Think Fifth Gear did a test on these in their last series - proven to actually make BHP and MPG worse!

Well, I'll post on here my findings

[- Paul -]

video of test - for petrols.

[spandeli]

The BMW Agents garage here in my coutry uses this one,

http://www.cyclo.com/additives_fuel.asp


6XT™ Diesel Fuel Treatment

Moreover one of my best friends who runs a BMW specialising service garage also recommends this product, and he also suggests that it is probably the only one in the market that does a job, in case of dirty injectors.

[encee]

Glad you posted this mate, as you reminded me that I hadn`t done so !

Noticed some of the Miller`s stuff whilst I was out the other day, and wondered if it was any good, and meant to post the question.

It would seem that the concensus is that it isn`t up to much !

Oh well.........

[agh!]

I've been using it (Millers Diesel Sport 4) since about April last year, 20,000 miles in my 320d 163bhp
*** BHP up by upto 17.5%
Really no, I don't beleive that, 3%-5% *perhaps*. If you start out with an old dirty fuel system diesel car then may be you *might* be restoring lost power as the additive cleans and get that increase, otherwise no.
*** MPG up by upto 7%
from around tank 2 or 3 onwards the economy improvement does get up to 5% to 7% measured by brim to brim fuel used / miles covered and not trusting the OBC. So yes.
*** upto 70% less exhaust smoke
Never noticed smoke from my car even with foot to the floor so I cannot say.

I do think the engine is a little smoother with it. I do see these effects reverse pretty quickly if I don't use it in a tank.

Don't fall for the double dose sillieness it is bow-larks and when a couple of us on another forum confronted them about it on the phone with just a tiny bit of science to back us up they said it is best to just stick to the standard dose.
That little bit of science is:
To meet EN590 standard for diesel fuel in Europe it must have a minimum cetane rating of 51 (it's a measure of how well the fuel burns). I forgot the exact science behind why 55 is the maximum useful cetane rating, but anything above that is of no further benefit though does no harm.
Millers adds 4 so your guaranteed is then at least 55 (will often be higher as diesel fuel varies a lot which is why a fuel is stated as having a guaranteed minimum 51). So double dosing gives you 59+ which is pointless.

This also means using premium fuels like BP Ultimate Diesel and Millers together is pointless because BP UD is already at 55+, as is Shell V-Power, Total Excellium 53+, regular Shell 53+, anything else 51+.

So go with anyones regular diesel and add Millers to the standard dose, any more than that is wasting money.

[- Paul -]

Originally Posted by agh!

I've been using it (Millers Diesel Sport 4) since about April last year, 20,000 miles in my 320d 163bhp
*** BHP up by upto 17.5%
Really no, I don't beleive that, 3%-5% *perhaps*. If you start out with an old dirty fuel system diesel car then may be you *might* be restoring lost power as the additive cleans and get that increase, otherwise no.
*** MPG up by upto 7%
from around tank 2 or 3 onwards the economy improvement does get up to 5% to 7% measured by brim to brim fuel used / miles covered and not trusting the OBC. So yes.
*** upto 70% less exhaust smoke
Never noticed smoke from my car even with foot to the floor so I cannot say.

I do think the engine is a little smoother with it. I do see these effects reverse pretty quickly if I don't use it in a tank.

Don't fall for the double dose sillieness it is bow-larks and when a couple of us on another forum confronted them about it on the phone with just a tiny bit of science to back us up they said it is best to just stick to the standard dose.
That little bit of science is:
To meet EN590 standard for diesel fuel in Europe it must have a minimum cetane rating of 51 (it's a measure of how well the fuel burns). I forgot the exact science behind why 55 is the maximum useful cetane rating, but anything above that is of no further benefit though does no harm.
Millers adds 4 so your guaranteed is then at least 55 (will often be higher as diesel fuel varies a lot which is why a fuel is stated as having a guaranteed minimum 51). So double dosing gives you 59+ which is pointless.

This also means using premium fuels like BP Ultimate Diesel and Millers together is pointless because BP UD is already at 55+, as is Shell V-Power, Total Excellium 53+, regular Shell 53+, anything else 51+.

So go with anyones regular diesel and add Millers to the standard dose, any more than that is wasting money.

Thanks for the input - I'm using it on standard Tesco stuff..

[330cdsport]

I have been using it with standard diesel for the last 3 or 4 tankfuls. I have not noticed much difference - I think - in the performance and i did not test the economy.
The car may feel more torquey when pulling in 6th from low revs but not sure.

I will probably use the rest of the bottle and then see if I see if I notice any degradation before I try it again.

[jonsteele]

As BMW specifically state not to add any additives in the fuel, how does this go down with warranty issues?

[agh!]

Originally Posted by 330cdsport

I have been using it with standard diesel for the last 3 or 4 tankfuls. I have not noticed much difference - I think - in the performance and i did not test the economy.
The car may feel more torquey when pulling in 6th from low revs but not sure.

I will probably use the rest of the bottle and then see if I see if I notice any degradation before I try it again.

If a power increase is the only reason for using it, it's not worth it, I agree with your observation, any power increase is very subtle if present at all.
I use it for economy and to keep things clean inside.

[agh!]

Originally Posted by jonsteele

As BMW specifically state not to add any additives in the fuel, how does this go down with warranty issues?

They are just covering themselves because they do not know what you may add.

BP Ultimate Diesel / Shell V-Power / Total Excellium is different from regular diesel only by the additives the manufacturer uses. Millers is just doing much the same for yourself.
In the end I beleive all european diesel has additives to improve what comes directly out of the refining process.

[- Paul -]

Well - I've been using it for around 300 miles now and have to say I'm quite impressed with the MPG!!

I would normally get 48mpg on a mixed motorway run - On the way back from the last meet the car averaged 51.5.

[GhostsForge]

I used Millers for a few months and can't say I noticed any performance or economy gains

Haven't a clue if the insides of the engine are any cleaner

[agh!]

Originally Posted by GhostsForge

I used Millers for a few months and can't say I noticed any performance or economy gains

Haven't a clue if the insides of the engine are any cleaner

I've known a small number of people to say this.
I would ask if there is something else changing to increase fuel consumption that masked the improvement that might have been happening.

If you use regular Shell diesel it has an unusually high guaranteed minimum cetane number of 53 for a "non-premium" fuel so using Millers would not change it by much.
Did you use a premium fuel anyway like BP Ultimate Diesel? - in which case you would not see any change.
Did you start using Millers just as the weather got colder?
In Winter I find fuel consumption can be as much as 10% higher than in Spring / Summer / Autumn temperatures of around 15DegC.

[mjbmw]

I hear 'Snake oil' is very good!

[agh!]

Originally Posted by mjbmw

I hear 'Snake oil' is very good!

Nah, clogs the fuel filter

[mjbmw]

Mmmmmmmm!

Now I think about it maybe a 'Can of Compression' would be better!

[dxb335d]

where in essex are you bud?

[GhostsForge]

Originally Posted by agh!

I've known a small number of people to say this.
I would ask if there is something else changing to increase fuel consumption that masked the improvement that might have been happening.

Not that I am aware of, same motorway miles and driving style

Originally Posted by agh!

If you use regular Shell diesel it has an unusually high guaranteed minimum cetane number of 53 for a "non-premium" fuel so using Millers would not change it by much.
Did you use a premium fuel anyway like BP Ultimate Diesel? - in which case you would not see any change.

Only fill up with the cheap stuff from Tesco, mainly because it is on the way to work and there are no BP or Shell stations close by.

Originally Posted by agh!

Did you start using Millers just as the weather got colder?
In Winter I find fuel consumption can be as much as 10% higher than in Spring / Summer / Autumn temperatures of around 15DegC.

Started using Millers is May, when the weather is supposed to be getting warmer