[IBellassai]

Yes, I know I am quite dim-witted in this situation. A classic "too may cooks in the kitchen" scenario.

Brother in law and I were working on various things for my 2009 328xi. An oil change was one of the processes we were tackling. We both assumed the other put oil back In the car and started the thing. The car ran for a couple minutes. Then we tried pumping my tire up with a compressor that plugs into the car's outlet because it has a slow leak from having a hole plugged. Mind you my car hadn't left the garage in at least two weeks. As we are pumping the tire up the whole car slowly shut all the way down and then would not start again. The codes read P0015 and P0016. Engine is NOT seized. The car cranks but doesn't seem like it has the pressure to start up. Is this a feature designed to preserve the engine?

Please help!

[ewicky]

Was the "oil pressure low" light on the whole time the engine was running?
Did you try finally putting the oil in?
How do you know the engine is "NOT" seized? I ask because a "seized engine" doesn't necessarily mean only an act of God can move the crankshaft. It just means it won't turn as smoothly as it is supposed to. If the battery, starter, etc are good but it is clearly laboring and can't fire enough combustion to keep it idling, you probably toasted the engine and it is essentially "seized".
Good luck! Start budgeting for the potential of buy another engine.

[ewicky]

Originally Posted by IBellassai

Is this a feature designed to preserve the engine?

I don't believe there is any such feature.

[IBellassai]

Originally Posted by ewicky

Was the "oil pressure low" light on the whole time the engine was running?
Did you try finally putting the oil in?
How do you know the engine is "NOT" seized? I ask because a "seized engine" doesn't necessarily mean only an act of God can move the crankshaft. It just means it won't turn as smoothly as it is supposed to. If the battery, starter, etc are good but it is clearly laboring and can't fire enough combustion to keep it idling, you probably toasted the engine and it is essentially "seized".
Good luck! Start budgeting for the potential of buy another engine.

No oil light was seen or heard as we were out of the car pumping the tire before it powered off.

I put oil in as soon as I realized what boneheaded move was made.

My brother in law (who is much more mechanically inclined than myself) manually turned the engine and mentioned the pressure was building up at the appropriate times ( don't ask me anything about this, I went to art school) lol.

I would like to remain hopeful. The car seemed like it wanted to start a couple times randomly out of the many attempts.

Thanks

[ewicky]

building pressure is good news. After trying to start it a few times and such, you might open the oil filter lid and see if there's a lot of metal in it. If so, then it's confirmed you toasted it.

On the other hand, it's possible the oil drained out of the VANOS system, and that's why it is running so rough. But it should be able to flush the air out out of VANOS and run reasonably well after a few attempts.

[IBellassai]

Originally Posted by ewicky

building pressure is good news. After trying to start it a few times and such, you might open the oil filter lid and see if there's a lot of metal in it. If so, then it's confirmed you toasted it.

On the other hand, it's possible the oil drained out of the VANOS system, and that's why it is running so rough. But it should be able to flush the air out out of VANOS and run reasonably well after a few attempts.

It's not running at all because it won't start.

[IBellassai]

Originally Posted by ewicky

building pressure is good news. After trying to start it a few times and such, you might open the oil filter lid and see if there's a lot of metal in it. If so, then it's confirmed you toasted it.

On the other hand, it's possible the oil drained out of the VANOS system, and that's why it is running so rough. But it should be able to flush the air out out of VANOS and run reasonably well after a few attempts.

Checked oil filter and saw no metal of any kind

[Aceway]

Your engine is done. Not sure how anyone here will be able to help you. I understand you're holding on to hope but the fact is you left an engine running without oil for a few minutes. You probably could have gotten away with a few seconds, but a few minutes, absolutely no chance.

[Gamb1t]

On a typical oil change, you can only drain out ~5L. there should still be 1-2L oil left inside the engine. Sorry to hear that regardless. All the best.

[ricx]

Originally Posted by IBellassai

Checked oil filter and saw no metal of any kind

It doesn't look good, but I believe in miracles. p0015 and 16 deals with vanos, but I'd take a reading with inpa or ista to get a more detailed reading. Maybe those Germans did engineer in an idiot auto shut off . A generic code reader won't give you the information you need.

[IBellassai]

Originally Posted by Aceway

Your engine is done. Not sure how anyone here will be able to help you. I understand you're holding on to hope but the fact is you left an engine running without oil for a few minutes. You probably could have gotten away with a few seconds, but a few minutes, absolutely no chance.

To be fair it was idle and wasn't bone dry. It didn't have any issue until the air pump powered down after maybe 10-15 seconds of that running.

I appreciate your honest opinion but will continue the path.

[Aceway]

Originally Posted by IBellassai

To be fair it was idle and wasn't bone dry. It didn't have any issue until the air pump powered down after maybe 10-15 seconds of that running.

I appreciate your honest opinion but will continue the path.

Wouldn't expect any less. Good luck.

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by IBellassai

...the whole car slowly shut all the way down and then would not start again. The codes read P0015 and P0016. Engine is NOT seized. The car cranks but doesn't seem like it has the pressure to start up. Is this a feature designed to preserve the engine? [NO, actually OIL is the feature designed to preserve the engine ]

That's NOT an "oil change" -- it's an "oil removal", and becomes a "change" ONLY when you replace what was removed. P0015 & P0016 codes are consistent with NO oil pressure, as it takes oil pressure to move the VANOS units on each cam from their "default" position of "Over-retarded." If both cams are Over-retarded (as would be expected from NO oil pressure), the engine would run rougher & slower as it warmed, combined with some additional heat & friction at the piston rings from lack of lubrication, and those combined effects COULD make the engine die as you describe.

I do NOT immediately see why it would NOT start after cooling down, or at least attempt to fire during Starter Cranking. I have NOT seen any mention of an "automatic shutdown" due to low oil pressure for "x" Seconds, but there IS of course a Low Oil Pressure Switch warning light, and also a Low Oil Level Signal, along with oil temperature measurement, by the OZS (Oil Condition Sensor).

Since you are providing P-codes, I would suggest getting ALL DME (Engine Control Module) Fault Codes read by a BMW-specific Scan Tool, or with INPA or ISTA software on a laptop. If you know anyone with such tools/ software, or can find someone who will come by with a laptop & K+DCAN cable and read the codes AND Freeze Frame Data (ONLY takes ~ 5 minutes once hooked up, to read codes and copy the screens to a thumb drive you provide, which you can then post here). I would NOT attempt to start the engine until getting ALL DME Fault Codes read.

I would have expected P0012 for Intake cam over-retarded as well. Here are the Bentley Manual Defintions for the two reported codes:
P0015 | 2A87 | 'B' Camshaft Position Timing Over-Retarded (Bank 1)
P0016 | 2AA4 | Camshaft Position Sensor Correlation) Bank 1 Sensor 'A')

So those two codes are reporting EXHAUST cam timing "over-retarded (from lack of oil pressure), and INTAKE cam position sensor "correlation" error (presumably correlation of camshaft position to crankshaft position). There ARE counterparts to each of those codes:
P0012 | 2A82 | 'A' Camshaft Position Timing Over-Retarded (Bank 1)
P0017 | 2AA5 | Camshaft Position Sensor Correlation) Bank 1 Sensor 'B')

Rather than beat yourself up & imagine the worst, since the engine was ONLY run at idle for ~ 5 minutes or less, if the starter turns the engine at ~ normal RPM (~ 150 RPM), there is a chance none of the bearings were damaged from oil starvation. You won't really know until you run the engine with proper oil pressure.

Here is what I would do:
1) Get Fault Codes & FF Data read with INPA or ISTA;
2) Make sure that the Drain Plug, Oil Filter Element & O-rings were properly installed;
3) Make sure 7 quarts of new oil were added;
4) Charge Battery;
5) Remove Plugs;
6) Add ~ 1 ml of oil (just a squirt) into each cylinder via the spark plug hole;
7) Crank the Starter ~ 10 to 15 seconds at a time (NO more than 15 seconds to prevent heat damage to starter); wait a minute or two and repeat; do that about 3 or 4 times, and MONITOR the Tach as the Starter cranks, recording the reading (hopefully in ~150+ RPM Range);
8) Get a compression tester and measure the PSIG pressure in each cylinder cranking ~ 5 seconds on each reading & recording each reading; add a squirt of oil to the cylinder to be tested BEFORE cranking (wet test);

Since "Bro'n-law" is more technically inclined, run this suggested test list by him for his review.

Please let us know what you find, and do NOT contemplate sticking a fork in ANYTHING until doing those tests and reporting findings.

George

[S65Hunter]

I worked at a shop for a little while, a guy there that was known to drink heavily before work did an oil change or "oil removal " on a mini cooper. He drove the car down the street and back with no oil in it. He realized he forgot to add oil so when he got back he filled her up and sent It on it's way. Nothing ever happend....that we know of.

[smass]

Your engine is fine. There is not much stress on a engine at idle. And everything was coated in enough oil to provide minimal protection for a few minutes. It should start once you build enough oil pressure to readjust everything. Crank the car with a 2nd battery to avoid starter damage and build oil pressure faster.

[mxchris727]

Bearings hold a slight film of oil almost indefinitely; that's why engines don't seize on cold starts with zero oil pressure for a few seconds. While I can see 20-30 seconds with no measurable damage, a few minutes would absolutely produce enough heat to seize the pistons or spin a bearing dry.
Luckily, N52s are dirt cheap and plenty. Find a reputable shop to throw another one in.

[tlow98]

Originally Posted by Gamb1t

On a typical oil change, you can only drain out ~5L. there should still be 1-2L oil left inside the engine. Sorry to hear that regardless. All the best.

Not this engine. It has no oil cooler. If it only drains 5 why does it take 7 whole quarts every time it’s changed? With this logic after 3 oil changes there would be between 10-13 quarts in the motor.

Op, I’ve said a prayer to the sweet, sweet baby motoring gods for you. He/she in all their motoring splendor are the only one that can help you.

Or, maybe George, but you have to do what he says, bc it’s logical and goood advice. Pray before each step and get the motor blessed. Get a priest from each denomination or maybe in your case makes plea with Andy Warhol.

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by AlpineE93

I worked at a shop for a little while, a guy there that was known to drink heavily before work did an oil change or "oil removal " on a mini cooper. He drove the car down the street and back with no oil in it. He realized he forgot to add oil so when he got back he filled her up and sent It on it's way. Nothing ever happend....that we know of.

Beware the "Return Customer", returning "on foot" (sans Mini)?

[Tambohamilton]

Charge the battery.

My money is on the engine being fine...though it surely won't have appreciated being run 'dry'.

Good luck

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Gamb1t

On a typical oil change, you can only drain out ~5L. there should still be 1-2L oil left inside the engine. Sorry to hear that regardless. All the best.

BS. If drained on a level surface and the 10 ounces in the OFH is removed, the only oil left is a small amount in the oil pump.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by gbalthrop

That's NOT an "oil change" -- it's an "oil removal", and becomes a "change" ONLY when you replace what was removed. P0015 & P0016 codes are consistent with NO oil pressure, as it takes oil pressure to move the VANOS units on each cam from their "default" position of "Over-retarded." If both cams are Over-retarded (as would be expected from NO oil pressure), the engine would run rougher & slower as it warmed, combined with some additional heat & friction at the piston rings from lack of lubrication, and those combined effects COULD make the engine die as you describe.

I do NOT immediately see why it would NOT start after cooling down, or at least attempt to fire during Starter Cranking. I have NOT seen any mention of an "automatic shutdown" due to low oil pressure for "x" Seconds, but there IS of course a Low Oil Pressure Switch warning light, and also a Low Oil Level Signal, along with oil temperature measurement, by the OZS (Oil Condition Sensor).

Since you are providing P-codes, I would suggest getting ALL DME (Engine Control Module) Fault Codes read by a BMW-specific Scan Tool, or with INPA or ISTA software on a laptop. If you know anyone with such tools/ software, or can find someone who will come by with a laptop & K+DCAN cable and read the codes AND Freeze Frame Data (ONLY takes ~ 5 minutes once hooked up, to read codes and copy the screens to a thumb drive you provide, which you can then post here). I would NOT attempt to start the engine until getting ALL DME Fault Codes read.

I would have expected P0012 for Intake cam over-retarded as well. Here are the Bentley Manual Defintions for the two reported codes:
P0015 | 2A87 | 'B' Camshaft Position Timing Over-Retarded (Bank 1)
P0016 | 2AA4 | Camshaft Position Sensor Correlation) Bank 1 Sensor 'A')

So those two codes are reporting EXHAUST cam timing "over-retarded (from lack of oil pressure), and INTAKE cam position sensor "correlation" error (presumably correlation of camshaft position to crankshaft position). There ARE counterparts to each of those codes:
P0012 | 2A82 | 'A' Camshaft Position Timing Over-Retarded (Bank 1)
P0017 | 2AA5 | Camshaft Position Sensor Correlation) Bank 1 Sensor 'B')

Rather than beat yourself up & imagine the worst, since the engine was ONLY run at idle for ~ 5 minutes or less, if the starter turns the engine at ~ normal RPM (~ 150 RPM), there is a chance none of the bearings were damaged from oil starvation. You won't really know until you run the engine with proper oil pressure.

Here is what I would do:
1) Get Fault Codes & FF Data read with INPA or ISTA;
2) Make sure that the Drain Plug, Oil Filter Element & O-rings were properly installed;
3) Make sure 7 quarts of new oil were added;
4) Charge Battery;
5) Remove Plugs;
6) Add ~ 1 ml of oil (just a squirt) into each cylinder via the spark plug hole;
7) Crank the Starter ~ 10 to 15 seconds at a time (NO more than 15 seconds to prevent heat damage to starter); wait a minute or two and repeat; do that about 3 or 4 times, and MONITOR the Tach as the Starter cranks, recording the reading (hopefully in ~150+ RPM Range);
8) Get a compression tester and measure the PSIG pressure in each cylinder cranking ~ 5 seconds on each reading & recording each reading; add a squirt of oil to the cylinder to be tested BEFORE cranking (wet test);

Since "Bro'n-law" is more technically inclined, run this suggested test list by him for his review.

Please let us know what you find, and do NOT contemplate sticking a fork in ANYTHING until doing those tests and reporting findings.

George

So here is what I don't understand. According to everything I've read on the N52, the ECU does a static oil level check before the engine starts (when the ignition is turned on). Unless whomever started the engine didn't even look at the gauge cluster, just to see the tachometer reach idle speed, I'd think there would be some notification immediately that there was an insufficient oil level in the sump. The low oil pressure light would remain on, and the lifters after a few seconds would be making an awful racket. I guess the tire air compressor masked the lifter noise...

OP, when I did my oil pan gasket replacement and clutch replacement over a few weekends, I did this...

[IBellassai]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

So here is what I don't understand. According to everything I've read on the N52, the ECU does a static oil level check before the engine starts (when the ignition is turned on). Unless whomever started the engine didn't even look at the gauge cluster, just to see the tachometer reach idle speed, I'd think there would be some notification immediately that there was an insufficient oil level in the sump. The low oil pressure light would remain on, and the lifters after a few seconds would be making an awful racket. I guess the tire air compressor masked the lifter noise...

OP, when I did my oil pan gasket replacement and clutch replacement over a few weekends, I did this...

For accuracy, this engine is the N51 SULEV.