[thegump]

Conclusion: Went with a newer GX460. Jeep needed a transfer case, no known root cause of issue, backordered, etc etc. Utilized the exchange policy at dealership. Given the circumstances we couldn't have asked for a better ending. Dealer waived all processing fees and even discounted the GX so the trade ended up being a wash.

A little back story-Wife and I have been looking for a good daily, camping, towing, safe, reliable vehicle. We had it narrowed down to: 4runners, '17+ Grand Cherokees and GX460's. With the 4runners and GX's having minimal safety features and being pigs on the road we decided to go with a Grand Cherokee.

Anyway, we picked up a 28k mile '18 Grand Cherokee Overland last week. One owner, still under warranty, excellent shape etc etc. Well it's now in the shop for a transfer case fault. No actual drive ability issues just a bunch of codes. It won't be diagnosed until Tuesday and the dealer is covering it in case it's not a warranty issue.

Here's the kicker.. We are now second guessing our decision going with a Chrysler product. The dealer has a 30-day exchange policy and there's a '19 4runner sr5 premium on the lot. No safety features, dated designs etc but toyota reliability. We felt like we did our due diligence with JGC noting issues with the '11-'14s but not many problems on the later years.

Vote and let me hear your opinions.

Edit: 4runner is probably out at this point, they let us take it home as a loaner. Not a bad ride at all but besides the residual smell of smoke/ozone cleaning, it's just lacks the creature comforts we're used to. The decision is now leaning towards a GX460.

[pennsiveguy]

Originally Posted by thegump

A little back story-Wife and I have been looking for a good daily, camping, towing, safe, reliable vehicle. We had it narrowed down to: 4runners, '17+ Grand Cherokees and GX460's. With the 4runners and GX's having minimal safety features and being pigs on the road we decided to go with a Grand Cherokee.

Anyway, we picked up a 28k mile '18 Grand Cherokee Overland last week. One owner, still under warranty, excellent shape etc etc. Well it's now in the shop for a transfer case fault. No actual drive ability issues just a bunch of codes. It won't be diagnosed until Tuesday and the dealer is covering it in case it's not a warranty issue.

Here's the kicker.. We are now second guessing our decision going with a Chrysler product. The dealer has a 30-day exchange policy and there's a '19 4runner sr5 premium on the lot. No safety features, dated designs etc but toyota reliability. We felt like we did our due diligence with JGC noting issues with the '11-'14s but not many problems on the later years.

Vote and let me hear your opinions.

In my anecdotal experience through several friends' ownership of Grand Cherokees, their most prominent safety feature is that they spend a lot of time at dealerships and indy shops up on a hoist. While they're on the hoist - as long as you don't sleep under the hoist - the GC is totally and completely safe. However, they're not much fun while they're on the hoist.

Chrysler products are shite, in general. You might defy the statistics and get a super-reliable one, of course. Just not very likely, though.

The 4Runner is an old-school body-on-frame design. Great for towing, although the GC will tow just fine too.

[Burrcold]

How many miles on the 4runner that they have?

[roastbeef]

my wife and i bought a '17 grand cherokee v8 trailhawk to serve as her dd and an occasional tow rig. its been a good truck so far.
the 4runner towing isn't that great.

[5.M0NSTER]

Dump the garbage from Chrysler. Their products look cool, but the there is little to no engineering behind the product. They buy off the shelf components from many suppliers and cram it all in without well through out interface and specification. End result is highest warranty return numbers among US manufacturers.

[RM7]

A 4-runner is pretty cramped inside IMO, at least compared to the Armada/Pilot/Tahoe/Exploder crowd.

[bucketfoot]

Easiest call ever... 4-Runner

I would never own a Chrysler vehicle, biggest piles of...

[flybigjet]

The Toyota will run like a.... well, Toyota.

Put a million miles on it, and it'll just purr like a kitten.

the Jeep/Chrysler? Well, you might make it to the edge of the dealership before needing warranty work. From the few that my friends HAD, they were hanger queens and every one of them has gotten rid of it.

Just my 0.02.

R.

[FuriouslyFast]

Originally Posted by pennsiveguy

In my anecdotal experience through several friends' ownership of Grand Cherokees, their most prominent safety feature is that they spend a lot of time at dealerships and indy shops up on a hoist. While they're on the hoist - as long as you don't sleep under the hoist - the GC is totally and completely safe. However, they're not much fun while they're on the hoist.

Chrysler products are shite, in general. You might defy the statistics and get a super-reliable one, of course. Just not very likely, though.

The 4Runner is an old-school body-on-frame design. Great for towing, although the GC will tow just fine too.

Every brand has bad apples. Way back in the day I had a POS 88 Daytona Shelby Z.

My Hellcat has been reliable

[Conissah]

90% of the people that hate on FCA are older folks who went through the Dodge/Chrysler shit show in the 90s and 2000s, and refuse to give the company another shot. How many people in this thread who are saying FCA is shit have ACTUALLY owned an FCA vehicle post 2014...? *Your mothers friends uncles best friends husband who had one doesn't count.*

I had a 2015 Grand Cherokee that I bought at 80k miles. I put 20k miles on it 8 months, towed with it a ton, and then sold it at 100k. 0 problems, got 24 mpg, loved it. Loved it so much, my next vehicle WILL BE an SRT GC or an SRT Durango. The ZF tranny is amazing, surprisingly nice inside, adaptive cruise is awesome. There's a reason the streets are littered with Grand Cherokees, Wranglers, Chargers, Challengers, etc.

You can't go WRONG with the Toyota, but in general they are archaic. 2019 model years still dont have AA or Carplay. 5k tow capacity is pretty low. I wouldn't let 1 code thrown ruin your experience. If you're that uncomfortable with taking it to the dealer, then you probably already have your mind made up.

[thegump]

Originally Posted by Burrcold

How many miles on the 4runner that they have?

29k

Originally Posted by Conissah

I wouldn't let 1 code thrown ruin your experience. If you're that uncomfortable with taking it to the dealer, then you probably already have your mind made up.

If we knew this would be a one time occurrence we'd feel much differently and would keep the Jeep as it's been our favorite by far. But given statistics, toyota/lexus has the edge on reliability which is our conundrum, wants vs needs (all speculative of course, we could end up with a garbage toyota).

[dsad1]

If you look at other forums, no one in their right mind would own a BMW. If you look at this forum, no one in their right mind would own anything but a BMW.

The one exception is Honda/Toyota, everyone seems to agree they are pretty reliable. Reliability doesn't always beat excitement though.

Take what everyone says with a grain of salt, most people that comment don't have actual experience with the car they are commenting on. Just take a look at the land rover thread right below yours.

[W///]

No question for me, I'd go 4Runner or a GX as you said. While I'm a BMW fanatic, I absolutely swear by Toyota SUV/Trucks.

I've always liked the Tacomas while I was in college, but it wasn't until I bought a 97 4Runner on Craiglist back in 2011 that I got to experience their reliabilty. I paid $2800 for it and it had +300k miles. Absolutely everything worked on it. Sure it leaked a little, but after all those years, many accidents and parked outside its whole life, the thing was still trucking along. Also, when I changed the trans fluid, it was a milkshake texture/color because radiator leaked coolant. Transmission ran absolutely fine the whole time I had it.

I was so sold on Toyota products I replaced it with a 2016 Toyota Tundra Platinum. Their reliability is just so much better than anything I'm used to. I plan on this being the only truck I own for decades to come. They take forever to update technology (Tundra STILL doesn't have direct injection or start/stop), but that's why their stuff is so proven.

So for me, it depends how much you need to tow. Otherwise, DD vehicle = Toyota/Lexus all day.

[The HACK]

Originally Posted by Conissah

How many people in this thread who are saying FCA is shit have ACTUALLY owned an FCA vehicle post 2014...?

Me.

Owned a Fiat 500e from 2014-2017. In 30+ years of owning and driving a variety of new, used, domestic, Asian, and European cars, the Fiat was the only other car to leave me stranded, other than a 14 year old, 120,xxx mile Nissan Maxima due to a dead alternator.

Don’t get me wrong, it was a fun car and for my first experience with a pure plug-in electric, it’s fully converted me to the EV life. Except it also convinced me to never get an FCA vehicle in my life too.

In the 3 short years, it was subjected to numerous recalls, each one requiring a day to up to a week to perform. While commuting home on a busy freeway it lost all forward propulsion out of nowhere and I was stuck in the 2nd lane with no way to move the car. Took 30 minutes for a tow truck to pull me off the freeway. It spent 4 weeks at the dealership for an issue with the 12V battery that no one seems to know how to solve.

The best part of the ownership experience was the 4 weeks at the dealership we were given a Grand Caravan. In the 4 weeks we went on a camping trip, picked up a couch, helped a buddy move some furnitures, and went to Vegas.

I’m sure there are some people who have had zero problems with their FCA products. I have a friend with a 2019 Jeep Rubicon that has not had to spend extended time at the Jeep dealership yet. Out of all my car owning buddies though, he is the ONLY one that has not had negative experience with his FCA product yet. I can’t tell you how many more horror stories and buy-backs and lemons there are that are more like mine amongst my collection of friends.

[FuriouslyFast]

Originally Posted by thegump

29k



If we knew this would be a one time occurrence we'd feel much differently and would keep the Jeep as it's been our favorite by far. But given statistics, toyota/lexus has the edge on reliability which is our conundrum, wants vs needs (all speculative of course, we could end up with a garbage toyota).

You can predict the future now? You are PARANOID.

[thegump]

Originally Posted by FuriouslyFast

You can predict the future now? You are PARANOID.

Absolutely.. who wouldn't after one week of ownership?

Thanks for the input tho

[5.M0NSTER]

Here are a few opinions for you:

CR
https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/jeep/

And full list with Jeep taking 26/30
https://eu.usatoday.com/story/money/...es/2578463001/

JD
You'll find 5 Jeeps on this list
https://www.cheatsheet.com/money-car...ity-test.html/

And this doesn't surprise me one bit. I worked closely with FCA for a few years starting in 2016. The toxic culture of fear and trying to look better than others is the root cause. But when you have new owners every 5 to 6 years this shows. People become more worried about their job than doing a good job. Suddenly the right thing or good engineering judgement are out the door, and short term political game is the standard for decision making. And to make things more complicated Daimler, Fiat and now PSA re-org and cannibalize what they can, while injecting their own vehicle architectures and network communication protocols. This leaves behind a hodgepodge and a dumpster fire of convoluted engineering. And it the end things don't work as expected. Who would have though.

[dreamingat30fps]

Get an F150 call it a day. Hopefully you are not towing anything serious with either of those vehicles.

[thegump]

Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER

And this doesn't surprise me one bit. I worked closely with FCA for a few years starting in 2016. The toxic culture of fear and trying to look better than others is the root cause. But when you have new owners every 5 to 6 years this shows. People become more worried about their job than doing a good job. Suddenly the right thing or good engineering judgement are out the door, and short term political game is the standard for decision making. And to make things more complicated Daimler, Fiat and now PSA re-org and cannibalize what they can, while injecting their own vehicle architectures and network communication protocols. This leaves behind a hodgepodge and a dumpster fire of convoluted engineering. And it the end things don't work as expected. Who would have though.

Very helpful monster, I guess we were seduced by the features and didn't take in the bigger picture. Well just have to add it to our box of lessons learned.

I work in the industry as well and see this happen often. I find myself completely dumbfounded by some of the decisions that are made albeit cost savings or to save face.

[thegump]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

Get an F150 call it a day. Hopefully you are not towing anything serious with either of those vehicles.

This was supposed to serve as a double duty vehicle for the wife. Wouldn't tow anything crazy, just a lightweight camper and gear.

[FuriouslyFast]

Originally Posted by thegump

Very helpful monster, I guess we were seduced by the features and didn't take in the bigger picture. Well just have to add it to our box of lessons learned.

I work in the industry as well and see this happen often. I find myself completely dumbfounded by some of the decisions that are made albeit cost savings or to save face.

You had one problem that is being covered under warranty. All of a sudden the sky is falling & it's a bad buy? Dude, you gotta RELAX

[chassis]

The 4Runner may be the single most reliable vehicle available today. Plus it offers interior space in addition to off roading capability.

I owned a 4Runner for 14 years and sold it recently for a good price with 206k miles on the clock. It sold in 2 days, which suggests the (relatively high) price I sold it for was not high enough. These vehicles are in high demand on the used market.

The 4.0L V6 has been used for about 20 years and is as reliable as they come. The transmission is made by Aisin, one of the two best transmission manufacturers in the world. The other is ZF.