[ghost_m2c]

Hey all,
I found out recently that the reason for my awful gas mileage only on MHD stage 1+ (~14mpg or so) is because I have 3 leaky injectors. I would just replace them, but they are completely unavailable on FCP Euro, and the ones on ebay are either from a really sketchy seller, or are in piss poor condition. Is there any way to clean the leaky ones in a last ditch effort for better gas mileage? I have seen a few people use fuel additives, brake cleaner, and even some ultrasonic cleaners. I can't tell if they are bullshit or actually work. Can you dissasemble the leaky ones and fix something inside of them or is there nothing I can do? I would really not like to shell out $2.7k for the brand new ones.

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

I would be more worried about oil fuel dilution rather than MPG here and just not drive the car and remove the leaky ones.

But yeah no I don't see think cleaning them would help with them leaking, I believe it's internal seals or something rather than it being dirty or clogged.

[ghost_m2c]

Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwhal

I would be more worried about oil fuel dilution rather than MPG here and just not drive the car and remove the leaky ones.

But yeah no I don't see think cleaning them would help with them leaking, I believe it's internal seals or something rather than it being dirty or clogged.

I just changed my oil last weekend, It was dark because this is the first change since I have owned it. It did not have any glittery bits or coolant in it, and did not smell of fuel. I really am at a loss here. I pulled the plugs and 3 of them were damp and smelled of fuel after sitting overnight. I just walnut blasted my valves maybe 2 months ago. I replaced the coils in plugs about the same time. I don't know what else to point fingers at.

[iqraceworks]

Originally Posted by ghost_m2c

I just changed my oil last weekend, It was dark because this is the first change since I have owned it. It did not have any glittery bits or coolant in it, and did not smell of fuel. I really am at a loss here. I pulled the plugs and 3 of them were damp and smelled of fuel after sitting overnight. I just walnut blasted my valves maybe 2 months ago. I replaced the coils in plugs about the same time. I don't know what else to point fingers at.

Sounds like the injectors are leaking. Continuing to run the motor with leaking injectors is going to dilute the oil, and eat your bearings up. If you have to, check ebay for used injectors. Anything is better than running the leaking ones you have in there now.

As far as cleaning them....I don't think it's possible. Once they start leaking, they are trashed. Check around online....you can find used ones.


https://www.ebay.com/itm/25526633043...3ABFBM_v6myJZg

[ghost_m2c]

Originally Posted by iqraceworks

Sounds like the injectors are leaking. Continuing to run the motor with leaking injectors is going to dilute the oil, and eat your bearings up. If you have to, check ebay for used injectors. Anything is better than running the leaking ones you have in there now.

As far as cleaning them....I don't think it's possible. Once they start leaking, they are trashed. Check around online....you can find used ones.


https://www.ebay.com/itm/25526633043...3ABFBM_v6myJZg

Can I run 3 index 11/12s with the older ones?

[Saif2018]

Originally Posted by ghost_m2c

Hey all,
I found out recently that the reason for my awful gas mileage only on MHD stage 1+ (~14mpg or so) is because I have 3 leaky injectors. I would just replace them, but they are completely unavailable on FCP Euro, and the ones on ebay are either from a really sketchy seller, or are in piss poor condition. Is there any way to clean the leaky ones in a last ditch effort for better gas mileage? I have seen a few people use fuel additives, brake cleaner, and even some ultrasonic cleaners. I can't tell if they are bullshit or actually work. Can you dissasemble the leaky ones and fix something inside of them or is there nothing I can do? I would really not like to shell out $2.7k for the brand new ones.

Don't bother with injector cleaners or cleaning, doesn't work. I've tried it, certainly won't fix leaking DI injectors N54's use.

The injectors cannot be disassembled and fixed.

Ebay is a dice roll, you might be OK, you might be scammed.

There's only one real solution and that's to replace them.

[iqraceworks]

Originally Posted by ghost_m2c

Can I run 3 index 11/12s with the older ones?

Yes. As long as you code them in correctly, you can mix and match all you want. BMW says you can't....but the facts say otherwise.

[ghost_m2c]

Originally Posted by iqraceworks

Yes. As long as you code them in correctly, you can mix and match all you want. BMW says you can't....but the facts say otherwise.

Perfect. Also, you think that this listing is decent? Looking to replace all 6 while im in there.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/303674484086

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Originally Posted by ghost_m2c

Perfect. Also, you think that this listing is decent? Looking to replace all 6 while im in there.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/303674484086

That seems to be the generic China ebay fakes. 6 injectors for the price of one? Plus from China is another sign (not to say everything from China is bad).

The only remanufactured ones I would buy are the ones FCP euro offer but out of stock. I would look at used genuine injectors if you can't afford to not drive the car or buy new ones from somewhere in stock.

[studio54]

Originally Posted by ghost_m2c

Hey all,
I found out recently that the reason for my awful gas mileage only on MHD stage 1+ (~14mpg or so) is because I have 3 leaky injectors. I would just replace them, but they are completely unavailable on FCP Euro, and the ones on ebay are either from a really sketchy seller, or are in piss poor condition. Is there any way to clean the leaky ones in a last ditch effort for better gas mileage? I have seen a few people use fuel additives, brake cleaner, and even some ultrasonic cleaners. I can't tell if they are bullshit or actually work. Can you dissasemble the leaky ones and fix something inside of them or is there nothing I can do? I would really not like to shell out $2.7k for the brand new ones.

Hey,

Out of curiosity, did you get any related DME codes ?
(I need to check mine aswell)

I know that some people here got leaking injector(s) without getting any code, you aswell?
Beside high MPG, no other symptoms ? small misfires, or unwanted burbles/pops ? Long cranking?
By any chance, do you have a log running with your leaking injectors ?

I found it not reassuring that the DME won't detect such leaks.

Price are crazy... It's now almost as expensive to replace 6 injectors than to replace turbos

[Saif2018]

Originally Posted by studio54

Hey,

Out of curiosity, did you get any related DME codes ?
(I need to check mine aswell)

I know that some people here got leaking injector(s) without getting any code, you aswell?
Beside high MPG, no other symptoms ? small misfires, or unwanted burbles/pops ? Long cranking?
By any chance, do you have a log running with your leaking injectors ?

I found it not reassuring that the DME won't detect such leaks.

Price are crazy... It's now almost as expensive to replace 6 injectors than to replace turbos

I had about 3 leaking injectors if I recall correctly, my LTFT was all over the place, was getting 14-15 mpg regardless of how I drove. No codes or misfires. You'll Have to pull plugs and check injectors to make sure, logs alone won't confirm.

https://datazap.me/u/shelim2020/v51?...-23&zoom=0-117

Bought a full set for about £1500 now they are even more expensive

[studio54]

Originally Posted by Saif2018

I had about 3 leaking injectors if I recall correctly, my LTFT was all over the place, was getting 14-15 mpg regardless of how I drove. No codes or misfires. You'll Have to pull plugs and check injectors to make sure, logs alone won't confirm.

https://datazap.me/u/shelim2020/v51?...-23&zoom=0-117

Bought a full set for about £1500 now they are even more expensive

Thanks I remember you already sent me this log cause I was curious, you said you had 3 leaking injectors in the same bank, but you didn't remember which bank, which is weird because on the log, both bank are almost following with not much difference.

One thing I would like to know if you remember, for your MPG, for example with the instant display of MPG, it was displaying 14 or 15MPG while cruising at stabilized highway speed (~100 kph or 60 mph) in 6th gear ??

[Saif2018]

Originally Posted by studio54

Thanks I remember you already sent me this log cause I was curious, you said you had 3 leaking injectors in the same bank, but you didn't remember which bank, which is weird because on the log, both bank are almost following with not much difference.

One thing I would like to know if you remember, for your MPG, for example with the instant display of MPG, it was displaying 14 or 15MPG while cruising at stabilized highway speed (~100 kph or 60 mph) in 6th gear ??

That's why I couldn't see anything pointing to 1 particular bank. In my opinion logs are not a good indication of leaking injectors.

Cruising wasn't the issue, could get 30mpg+ I would expect cruising mpg to be good, since your going at steady throttle. It's city driving and combined which dropped to between 14-15mpg.

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Originally Posted by studio54

Hey,

Out of curiosity, did you get any related DME codes ?
(I need to check mine aswell)

I know that some people here got leaking injector(s) without getting any code, you aswell?
Beside high MPG, no other symptoms ? small misfires, or unwanted burbles/pops ? Long cranking?
By any chance, do you have a log running with your leaking injectors ?

I found it not reassuring that the DME won't detect such leaks.

Price are crazy... It's now almost as expensive to replace 6 injectors than to replace turbos

I believe the first symptoms you can notice you have an issue is on cold starts after letting the car sit for like a day. For example me, my starts sounded a bit more aggressive and violent and had some "farting" so to say, like all the gas that was sitting in the piston overnight just suddenly combusts you know. Eventually, I got a misfire code to on startup on rare occasions.

[studio54]

Originally Posted by Saif2018

That's why I couldn't see anything pointing to 1 particular bank. In my opinion logs are not a good indication of leaking injectors.

Cruising wasn't the issue, could get 30mpg+ I would expect cruising mpg to be good, since your going at steady throttle. It's city driving and combined which dropped to between 14-15mpg.

Ok thanks.

Mixed city/road (no highway and driving/boosting agressively more than often) I am at 18 MPG.

I tested to drive slower/not aggressive to see MPG, and I remember it's around 26-28MPG but no pleasure at all. On cruising on 2 lane/highway the instant shows 30+ but I never drive like that for a long time

Also I am not sure, but I feel V10 drinks more fuel than V7, but it boosts more.. so...

Concerning logs, maybe if the leak is big, I do believe that it should be seen at least on AFR reading, on let off, if one bank is leaking, you should see it having lag to return to 234 due to a rich condition (not on your log, but I seen logs with this behaviour).

I remember reading some tuner saying he could tell if injector leaks just by reading logs but probably won't tell for every cars, depends probably of the leak level.

Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwhal

I believe the first symptoms you can notice you have an issue is on cold starts after letting the car sit for like a day. For example me, my starts sounded a bit more aggressive and violent and had some "farting" so to say, like all the gas that was sitting in the piston overnight just suddenly combusts you know. Eventually, I got a misfire code to on startup on rare occasions.

Ok thanks, never experienced that, my paranoid is kicking a bit because I do believe my car burbles a bit without MHD burble, it just burbles a bit on let off.

[Saif2018]

Originally Posted by studio54

Ok thanks.

Mixed city/road (no highway and driving/boosting agressively more than often) I am at 18 MPG.

I tested to drive slower/not aggressive to see MPG, and I remember it's around 26-28MPG but no pleasure at all. On cruising on 2 lane/highway the instant shows 30+ but I never drive like that for a long time

Also I am not sure, but I feel V10 drinks more fuel than V7, but it boosts more.. so...

Concerning logs, maybe if the leak is big, I do believe that it should be seen at least on AFR reading, on let off, if one bank is leaking, you should see it having lag to return to 234 due to a rich condition (not on your log, but I seen logs with this behaviour).

I remember reading some tuner saying he could tell if injector leaks just by reading logs but probably won't tell for every cars, depends probably of the leak level.

Ok thanks, never experienced that, my paranoid is kicking a bit because I do believe my car burbles a bit without MHD burble, it just burbles a bit on let off.

18 mpg with aggressive driving sounds about normal. Yeah big leaks should be but small leaks probably won't affect AFR's, significantly, my AFR's were fine, just mpg tanked, that's probably a good indicator to inspect plugs and injectors.

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Originally Posted by studio54

Ok thanks, never experienced that, my paranoid is kicking a bit because I do believe my car burbles a bit without MHD burble, it just burbles a bit on let off.

If it happens while driving I'd say it's perfectly fine and not related at all. It's really just when the car has sat overnight because the leaking fuel needs to pool slowly inside the combustion chamber. So then, when you start your car, it will start a bit rough but quickly become normal once all the fuel is combusted. Also, if it reaches a bad point you will surely have misfire codes on startup.

But yeah if you are paranoid you can easily DIY test, you let your car sit overnight, then, make sure you do not start it up, remove all 6 spark plugs and take a good smell of them. Those that are leaky will be very strong fuel smell and their color should be a bit different.

[iqraceworks]

Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwhal

If it happens while driving I'd say it's perfectly fine and not related at all. It's really just when the car has sat overnight because the leaking fuel needs to pool slowly inside the combustion chamber. So then, when you start your car, it will start a bit rough but quickly become normal once all the fuel is combusted. Also, if it reaches a bad point you will surely have misfire codes on startup.

But yeah if you are paranoid you can easily DIY test, you let your car sit overnight, then, make sure you do not start it up, remove all 6 spark plugs and take a good smell of them. Those that are leaky will be very strong fuel smell and their color should be a bit different.

This. Just do this simple test and see if any injectors are leaking. Only takes a few minutes...and it will tell you for sure so you don't have to wonder.

[studio54]

Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwhal

If it happens while driving I'd say it's perfectly fine and not related at all. It's really just when the car has sat overnight because the leaking fuel needs to pool slowly inside the combustion chamber. So then, when you start your car, it will start a bit rough but quickly become normal once all the fuel is combusted. Also, if it reaches a bad point you will surely have misfire codes on startup.

But yeah if you are paranoid you can easily DIY test, you let your car sit overnight, then, make sure you do not start it up, remove all 6 spark plugs and take a good smell of them. Those that are leaky will be very strong fuel smell and their color should be a bit different.

Originally Posted by iqraceworks

This. Just do this simple test and see if any injectors are leaking. Only takes a few minutes...and it will tell you for sure so you don't have to wonder.

Ok thanks, I will try this ASAP. Is it supposed to be obvious? Like the plug dripping wet ? or just smell? (Can I use a paper tissue to check?)
Does normal plug won't smell fuel at all?

I will also try another approach, which is to remove the fuel pump fuse (to avoid key on pump priming) and let the car sit over night, then log rail pressure psi with engine off in the morning to see if it dropped. I would imagine that a leaking injector all night will make the pressure fall.

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Originally Posted by studio54

Ok thanks, I will try this ASAP. Is it supposed to be obvious? Like the plug dripping wet ? or just smell? (Can I use a paper tissue to check?)
Does normal plug won't smell fuel at all?

I will also try another approach, which is to remove the fuel pump fuse (to avoid key on pump priming) and let the car sit over night, then log rail pressure psi with engine off in the morning to see if it dropped. I would imagine that a leaking injector all night will make the pressure fall.

The smell definitely should be obvious yeah, especially when you compare to others. I can't recall what the normal plug smelt like if anything. Visually, I'm not sure, I assume if yours is leaking very badly it could?

I assume that could work to I've just never read about it before. The spark plug leaky injector check is somewhat common if you search it up.

[studio54]

Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwhal

The smell definitely should be obvious yeah, especially when you compare to others. I can't recall what the normal plug smelt like if anything. Visually, I'm not sure, I assume if yours is leaking very badly it could?

I assume that could work to I've just never read about it before. The spark plug leaky injector check is somewhat common if you search it up.

Ok

Yes, I only read about the plug smelling method on N54 forums too but this should theoretically work. I need to experiment this
It could confirm injectors are not leaking, but can't confirm it's leaking.

The LPFP check valve should hold ~72psi (according to the Bentley manual).

When we shut the engine, HPFP pressure (very high psi figures) fall back very fast, relieved by the LPFP check valve that hold up to 72 psi.

If logged psi value of the HPFP remains steady or do not dramatically fall, I imagine we can assume that injectors aren't leaking.
I can't imagine them leaking for hours, pooling in cylinder, wetting plugs, without bleeding this psi value.

However, if the pressure drops a lot, it does not necessary mean that the injector are leaking, could be a weak check valve or another leak. But if it remains steady overnight (or just drop a bit and stay in let's say in the 60-72 psi range), I would guess injectors are not leaking.

I will try to test both methods at the same time to see that !

[ghost_m2c]

Originally Posted by studio54

Hey,

Out of curiosity, did you get any related DME codes ?
(I need to check mine aswell)

I know that some people here got leaking injector(s) without getting any code, you aswell?
Beside high MPG, no other symptoms ? small misfires, or unwanted burbles/pops ? Long cranking?
By any chance, do you have a log running with your leaking injectors ?

I found it not reassuring that the DME won't detect such leaks.

Price are crazy... It's now almost as expensive to replace 6 injectors than to replace turbos

No log yet, no codes getting thrown, no unwanted burbles, long cranking sometimes but only like 3-4 seconds. For some reason idk why the DME would bot detect such an abnormal amount of fuel being used, but then again im no engineer.