[SoCalJon]

Picking up new car (hopefully) in a couple of days, provided that it has actually been delivered, inspected, dealer prepped, etc.

I'm using outside financing, but will have to sign off on dealer financing in case my bank's check doesn't arrive within 3 days. (Bank won't issue a check without a purchase agreement, dealer won't write a purchase agreement until I inspect the car and make downpayment.) The dealer has assured me that the BMW financing option will be destroyed as long as my check arrives within the timeframe.

I know that I'll have to go sit with the F&I guys to finish up paperwork, especially since I'll have to sign off this optioned loan.

My question is... what else are they going to try to pitch me on? The last time I did this, I had an F&I guy lie to me outright (demonstrably so... numbers don't lie, but you can lie with numbers) and it left a bit of a bad taste in my mouth. I know these guys are doing their job, but I'd feel better prepared if I knew what their pitches likely include.

(My outside financing is 72 months at 2.74%... pretty unlikely they can come close to beating that.)

[Chihuahua]

Anything and everything you can think of. Warranties, service packages, warranties, extended warranties, did I mention warranties? Channel your inner Nancy Reagan and just say no...

[Theruleslawyer]

Make sure every thing adds up and read closely for things snuck in there. I'd make sure I understood every line item and check their math. So many people just sign off without reading it.

As for financing, be sure what happens if you pay it off early. Most financing you just pay interest for the period you have it, but some you need to pay the interest no matter what. Some have prepayment penalties. Don't take 'assurances' have them show you where it says that in writing.

[Westside Guy]

The only thing I purchased is a 5 year tire, wheel and dings type policy from my dealer. I already have replaced two Michelin Pilot SS rear tires that were punctured with nails at no cost in the first year.

[Namelss]

Yeah, they have tire and wheel protection, extended warranties, interior protection/coatings, exterior ceramic coating, PPF, virtually everything and anything they can talk you into.

I usually refrain from purchasing any extras but I did go for the tire and wheel protection this time around as I had a lot of tire problems with my CTS-V and these tires aren't cheap. I think I paid a little too much for it but I have already had one tire replaced in the first 4k mi.

Congrats and good luck! Post some pics post delivery.

[SoCalJon]

What’s a reasonable warranty cost/coverage for 18” runflats? I’ve probably picked up only 1 nail in the last 7 years.

[Chihuahua]

Originally Posted by SoCalJon

What’s a reasonable warranty cost/coverage for 18” runflats? I’ve probably picked up only 1 nail in the last 7 years.

Ditch the run flats and get new tires from Tire Rack, they'll replace them if you pick up an unrepairable puncture (run flats drive like crap)

[SoCalJon]

Originally Posted by Chihuahua

Ditch the run flats and get new tires from Tire Rack, they'll replace them if you pick up an unrepairable puncture (run flats drive like crap)

Thanks. For a variety of reasons, that’s probably not going to happen right away. Maybe not until we replace them in 4 years/50k.

I suppose I could skip the warranty with the knowledge that I’ll likely replace them eventually anyway.

[Efthreeoh]

Your financing process doesn't sound kosher. No bank "writes a check" for a car loan nor "sends a check". If you are financially pre-approved by your lending institution for the amount you plan to borrow for purchasing the BMW, then all the Bank needs is the VIN and the estimated amount of what you are borrowing from them.

Run all the numbers ahead of time on a spreadsheet to have as reference to check the dealer numbers. Excel has a loan calculator formula you can build into a spreadsheet to estimate the monthly payment. The value of the loan is the difference between the out the door price minus the down payment you are providing. Depending on your state tax laws, DMV fees and what dealer fees the dealer charges you can add all that up to figure out the final price. Your DMV should publish how the taxes, registration, and tag fees are determined. You should already have asked what the dealership fees are, some post that information on their website.

The only other adders are the BS protection packages and extended warranties the F&I guys will try to sell you. If you want any if those adders, figure out ahead of time what the coverages are and what the packages should cost, so you don't have to make decisions about them on the fly. Wheel and tire packages are stupid to buy. Wheels are covered by insurance and tires are consumables. BMWs tire and wheel package only covers the tires that came from the factory. Once those tires wear out and you replace them the tires are nolonger covered. Spend the value of the package on lowering your insurance deductible instead. I keep a $100 comprehensive policy deductible instead of $500 like most people do. For me it's an extra $40 per year and the $100 deductible applies to anything covered under comprehensive vs. just wheels under the wheel package from the dealer.

If you don't what to screw with all the financial BS, close on the deal on Friday night an hour before the dealer closes. It caps the time the F&I department has to eff with you. If they say the word "nitrogen" just abruptly get up and nicely say "are you really going to BS me about tire air quality?" just to set the tone of the deal closing process.

[Bc2005]

The BMW tire and wheel package covers any tire and wheel that is on the car, for the length of the warranty, but does not pay for cosmetic damage (curb rash, etc.) unless you pay extra. However, there is a point where the warranty may not apply if the tires are too worn down. I’m not sure how that is assessed.

Do not let the service department get it confused with any manufacturer’s tire warranty. They have to look up your VIN and verify with the warranty company, but after that you just get your new tire installed.

I’ve had two tires replaced so far on my 2021 (nail in one; bubble on the other), so I have two tires that are nearly new and two with about 20k miles on them. My dilemma is that I don’t really like the ride of the Pirelli P7 runflats, but I may reach a point where the cheapest solution to extend my mileage is to replace the other two tires with 2 new Pirelli tires. I’d rather switch all 4 to Michelin, but then I’ll need all four tires.

[Anderson11]

A line I use for any addition for sales/service is I maintain a separate service account at my bank with funds for unexpected repairs for my cars. The money is there if I need it and if not I have an annuity sitting in my account earning 1.5%. This ends the discussion quickly.

If you can't afford an unexpected repair eg $1500.00 for a blown tire and cracked wheel get the insurance. These plans however are pure pork for dealers. Don't be shy to negotiate on price especially extended warranties.

[SoCalJon]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Your financing process doesn't sound kosher. No bank "writes a check" for a car loan nor "sends a check". If you are financially pre-approved by your lending institution for the amount you plan to borrow for purchasing the BMW, then all the Bank needs is the VIN and the estimated amount of what you are borrowing from them.

Frankly, I’ve been a little gunshy on this too… (in fact, I posted another thread on this specific issue). However, I have assurances (in emails, not legally binding, but in writing) from both the dealer and the credit union that this is exactly how it will work. We’ll sign the purchase agreement, scan/send it to the credit union, and complete their process by docusign. They will overnight the check to the dealer along with titling instructions. In the interim, we will sign a BMWFS loan as an option for the dealer to exercise if the funds don’t arrive within 3 days. This option loan will allow us to take the car home with us.

If things go sideways, the worst case scenario is that it goes to BMWFS and then we treat it as a refinance.

(Also, that $30k has to get to the dealer somehow: Wire transfer, EFT/ACH, or good old paper check. The Credit Union is a couple hours away, so unless I want to drive four hours R/T, this is how it happens.)

Run all the numbers ahead of time on a spreadsheet to have as reference to check the dealer numbers. Excel has a loan calculator formula you can build into a spreadsheet to estimate the monthly payment. The value of the loan is the difference between the out the door price minus the down payment you are providing. Depending on your state tax laws, DMV fees and what dealer fees the dealer charges you can add all that up to figure out the final price. Your DMV should publish how the taxes, registration, and tag fees are determined. You should already have asked what the dealership fees are, some post that information on their website.

Yup. Got this all figured out down to the penny. Will be able to proof it against their numbers while we sit there. Will reach into my briefcase and grab my laptop if it gets weird.

The only other adders are the BS protection packages and extended warranties the F&I guys will try to sell you. If you want any if those adders, figure out ahead of time what the coverages are and what the packages should cost, so you don't have to make decisions about them on the fly. Wheel and tire packages are stupid to buy. Wheels are covered by insurance and tires are consumables. BMWs tire and wheel package only covers the tires that came from the factory. Once those tires wear out and you replace them the tires are nolonger covered. Spend the value of the package on lowering your insurance deductible instead. I keep a $100 comprehensive policy deductible instead of $500 like most people do. For me it's an extra $40 per year and the $100 deductible applies to anything covered under comprehensive vs. just wheels under the wheel package from the dealer.

Thanks. I’ll run those numbers too. We may just “self-insure” by increasing our emergency fund.

If you don't what to screw with all the financial BS, close on the deal on Friday night an hour before the dealer closes. It caps the time the F&I department has to eff with you. If they say the word "nitrogen" just abruptly get up and nicely say "are you really going to BS me about tire air quality?" just to set the tone of the deal closing process.

That’s awesome. I already asked the sales manager to let F&I know that we are unlikely to consider any new proposals at time of pickup, and if they want us to consider something, they should provide it to us in advance. I’m sure he didn’t pass that along to them, but I may just interrupt the conversation early on with “I’m sorry…. _____ must not have told you. We asked to have anything you wanted us to consider sent in writing three days before delivery. It must not really be that important if you couldn’t have been bothered to send it to us.”

Less adversarial, I might say: “do you remember Ralph Wolf and Sam Sheepdog? Those guys were good friends, clocked in and out together, ate lunch together, but spent the day doing two different jobs. Ralph Wolf’s job was to steal the sheep and Sam Sheepdog’s job was to protect them. I’m sure you’re a great guy and we could enjoy a meal together. But right now, your job is to sell me stuff… and my job is to say no.”

Alternatively, if he says something about “protecting your investment,” I may just start to gather my papers and stand up. It demonstrates a lack of financial credibility to use the word “investment” to describe an asset that is moments away from a guaranteed 10% depreciation.

Mostly this is bluster… they have a job to do, and I know that. I just want to expedite my time and figure out the nicest way to say “stop wasting my time and yours.”

[SoCalJon]

Originally Posted by Anderson11

A line I use for any addition for sales/service is I maintain a separate service account at my bank with funds for unexpected repairs for my cars. The money is there if I need it and if not I have an annuity sitting in my account earning 1.5%. This ends the discussion quickly.

If you can't afford an unexpected repair eg $1500.00 for a blown tire and cracked wheel get the insurance. These plans however are pure pork for dealers. Don't be shy to negotiate on price especially extended warranties.

Thanks. Helpful. And that’s essentially our plan. Let that money work for me instead of someone else.

[Anderson11]

Originally Posted by SoCalJon

Thanks. Helpful. And that’s essentially our plan. Let that money work for me instead of someone else.

LOL

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Bc2005

The BMW tire and wheel package covers any tire and wheel that is on the car, for the length of the warranty, but does not pay for cosmetic damage (curb rash, etc.) unless you pay extra. However, there is a point where the warranty may not apply if the tires are too worn down. I’m not sure how that is assessed.

Do not let the service department get it confused with any manufacturer’s tire warranty. They have to look up your VIN and verify with the warranty company, but after that you just get your new tire installed.

I’ve had two tires replaced so far on my 2021 (nail in one; bubble on the other), so I have two tires that are nearly new and two with about 20k miles on them. My dilemma is that I don’t really like the ride of the Pirelli P7 runflats, but I may reach a point where the cheapest solution to extend my mileage is to replace the other two tires with 2 new Pirelli tires. I’d rather switch all 4 to Michelin, but then I’ll need all four tires.

When I bought my E90 in 2006 and the finance guy tried to sell me a tire/wheel insurance I specifically asked if the insurance covered all the replacement tires for the life I owned the car. He said no, only the factory tires, I actually laughed at him.

Looking at the current plan on BMW's website, the plan covers wheels and tires for a maximum of 7 years, so perhaps BMW realized covering just the original tires was stupid. The current plan does not cover tires at or below 3/32nds tread depth and does not cover tires that are "repaired/replace without prior authorization". So "prior authorization" means you have to buy tires to BMW factory specs, which means you have to buy run-flat tires, so that means you can't swap to non-runflat tires. There are other exclusions as the website brochure states, "Additional exclusions may apply. Please see your Agreement for specific coverage details, including limitations and exclusions." Those words probably mean you have to repair the tire at a BMW dealer and probably buy replacement tires once they wear to 3/32nds tread depth from a BMW dealer. And that is the part I suggested to the OP, that he avoid at the F&I department time having to read fine print under the pressure of buying the car. 99.999% people don't read the fine print; they come to find once they've replaced the tires with non-runflats "without prior authorization" and come in to get a tire replaced, the dealer smiles and says the tires are not covered. There is a reason the BMW website does not have all the fine print in the downloadable brochure, so you are unprepared at F&I time and thus make a poor decision under a pressure situation.

Also, you have to buy the tire plan at the time of original vehicle purchase AND with another BMW protection plan product to avoid paying a deductible; if you don't buy the tire plan with an accompanying protection plan at the time of vehicle purchase there is a $50 deductible. And there is no coverage in construction zones. How that is determined is not stated. Cosmetic damage repair is an additional plan cost.

Like I said, auto insurance covers wheel damage, and tire damage too if caused by an accident. If a person who buys a car can't self-insure for an occasional tire replacement, then perhaps buying an expensive European car is not a good financial decision.

They key to avoiding a stressful situation at the sale in the F&I office is preparation.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by SoCalJon

Frankly, I’ve been a little gunshy on this too… (in fact, I posted another thread on this specific issue). However, I have assurances (in emails, not legally binding, but in writing) from both the dealer and the credit union that this is exactly how it will work. We’ll sign the purchase agreement, scan/send it to the credit union, and complete their process by docusign. They will overnight the check to the dealer along with titling instructions. In the interim, we will sign a BMWFS loan as an option for the dealer to exercise if the funds don’t arrive within 3 days. This option loan will allow us to take the car home with us.

If things go sideways, the worst case scenario is that it goes to BMWFS and then we treat it as a refinance.

(Also, that $30k has to get to the dealer somehow: Wire transfer, EFT/ACH, or good old paper check. The Credit Union is a couple hours away, so unless I want to drive four hours R/T, this is how it happens.)



Yup. Got this all figured out down to the penny. Will be able to proof it against their numbers while we sit there. Will reach into my briefcase and grab my laptop if it gets weird.



Thanks. I’ll run those numbers too. We may just “self-insure” by increasing our emergency fund.



That’s awesome. I already asked the sales manager to let F&I know that we are unlikely to consider any new proposals at time of pickup, and if they want us to consider something, they should provide it to us in advance. I’m sure he didn’t pass that along to them, but I may just interrupt the conversation early on with “I’m sorry…. _____ must not have told you. We asked to have anything you wanted us to consider sent in writing three days before delivery. It must not really be that important if you couldn’t have been bothered to send it to us.”

Less adversarial, I might say: “do you remember Ralph Wolf and Sam Sheepdog? Those guys were good friends, clocked in and out together, ate lunch together, but spent the day doing two different jobs. Ralph Wolf’s job was to steal the sheep and Sam Sheepdog’s job was to protect them. I’m sure you’re a great guy and we could enjoy a meal together. But right now, your job is to sell me stuff… and my job is to say no.”

Alternatively, if he says something about “protecting your investment,” I may just start to gather my papers and stand up. It demonstrates a lack of financial credibility to use the word “investment” to describe an asset that is moments away from a guaranteed 10% depreciation.

Mostly this is bluster… they have a job to do, and I know that. I just want to expedite my time and figure out the nicest way to say “stop wasting my time and yours.”

I've never used a credit union to finance a car, so perhaps its different. I use my Bank where my retirement funds are, so I get a great finance rate and preapproval for a financed amount up front. I bought a SUV in July and went through the process I described. My monthly payment was about 90 cents off and due to the difference in my formula for calculating the payment vs. the F&I lady's; it had to do with the interest length of time being the first payment is 45 days out vs. 30 days as I calculated it. $60 over the loan, BFD.

But I did go in late on Friday a few hours prior to closing. Since the wait for the SUV was nearly 2 years I had a developed a good relationship with the dealer and my sales guy, I told them I wasn't buying anything extra at F&I time. They didn't even try; time was up anyway. The F&I lady wanted to get home as much as I did. LOL.

[Westside Guy]

If you have run flats and replace them at your dealer with Michelin's BMW 'star" non run flat tires will they be covered?

[Mason Hatcher]

If I had outside financing I would never agree to sign up for dealer financing. Sounds like a great way to let someone take advantage of you.

[taek]

I told them ahead of time I won't be buying any of the financial products but feel free to pitch them to me as part of their job. Finance guy and I spent 20 minute talking about our favorite detailing products while paperwork was done.

[RMS73]

I spent about 15 minutes with the F&I rep at my local BMW dealer when I picked up my new X3 today. He could not have been more courteous and professional. He showed me a list of all available maintenance and warranty packages along with a shorter list of recommended choices. He answered a few questions, but then gave no pushback or additional sales pitch when I declined everything.

This is far different from what I've seen in dealerships selling less-expensive brands. One rep went so far in explaining how expensive repairs were for the car my son was buying (a Honda, no less) that I finally told him that we would reconsider the sale if his product was so problem-prone. That shut him up.

[DarkNight707]

I’m mot sure if I can recommend a youtube page here but google “ How to TAKE CONTROL and Save $1,000's When You Buy a Car” and you will find gold! They are great and have many more videos. Hope it helps!

[jkoral]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

No bank "writes a check" for a car loan nor "sends a check".

I saw above you haven't used a credit union, but my credit union is out of state. I email them a signed purchase agreement and they overnight a check either to me or the dealer (I've had both happen). A physical check that I hand to the dealer at delivery (if sent to me).