[fe7565]

Claim: Valvoline Restore & Protect, the first and only motor oil that removes up to 100% of deposits – restoring your engine to run like new.

You supposed to run 4 consecutive oil changes and it should clean pistons (and else?) to factory original. The oil was designed NOT to clog the oil filter like other heavy cleaning detergent additives may, thus the slower 4 oil change requirement.

Any proof did anyone find? Or personal experience?

[fe7565]

Well, at least Valvoline is honest and not just doing marketing to sell products:

“Thank you for contacting Valvoline Product Support,

Unfortunately, the Restore & Protect does not cover the ACEA B3/B4 or the BMW LL-01FE oil specification your vehicle requires. We do not recommend it’s use. Only our European Full Synthetic 0W-30 and 5W-30 meet this specification and are recommended for your BMW.

If you have any further questions, please feel free to contact us via phone at 800 TEAM VAL or by email at productsupport@valvolineglobal.com for assistance.

Thank you and have a great day.

Valvoline Product Support”

[Tejas1836]

That is just a normal full synthetic, it will help clean up to 100% of deposits.
Pennzoil Platinum Euro Spec 5w/30 will do the same

[fe7565]

Looks like Pennzoil Platinum Euro Spec 5w/30 meets BMW LL-04 specs.


BMW-Specific Oil Info https://www.bimmerworld.com/BMW-Engine-Oil/

BMW Engine Oil Approvals
BMW revises their oil formulations every few years based on contemporary engine design, mileage and emissions requirements, fuel type and quality, region, service plans, and marketing. Each new spec is coded by year and roughly corresponds to new generations of BMW engines. This is not the same as oil viscosity and there can be multiple oil viscosities for the same Approval type. These types are just a guide so that the appropriate oil is used for your engine design.

LL-98 (1998). API SJ. ACEA A3/B3. SAE 5W30, 5W40. The oldest available specification. Anything with this rating has been approved for older model BMWs - all chassis before the E46 and engines before the M54. BMW no longer produces oil in this spec but LL-98 alternatives exist (Red Line 5W40). LL-98 oils are compatible with LL-01 oils.

LL-01 (2001 and 2018). API SJ/SL. ACEA A3/B3. SAE 0W30, 5W30, 5W40, 10W60. The first revision with detergents and additives brought in to work with the ridiculous 15,000 mile oil change interval that BMW promoted at the time. However, once cars and engines were out of warranty and mileage accumulated the nasty effects of extended oil changes were realized (i.e. oil sludge). This was also the start of the decline of ZDDP levels with more additives brought in to take its place. LL-01 is compatible with engines approved for LL-98. LL-01 is still coveted as the best of the "old" oil, and the most compatible with sulfur levels of US fuel. Revised standards were applied in 2018 so that more modern engines could meet the LL-01 rating.

LL-04 (2005). API SM/SN. ACEA C3 (similar to A3). SAE 5W30, 5W40. The LL-04 oils have been greatly misunderstood in the past but this is now in greater demand. Most LL-04 oils are intended for Diesels, although it was also approved for gas engines in Europe and other world markets. BMW never certified LL-04 for the US (see next paragraph). Diesel oil has long been valued by engine builders and tuners because of its higher levels of ZDDP content. LL-04 also has a lower SAPS value which is good news for direct-injection engines (all BMW turbo engines since 2007). You won't find Genuine BMW LL-04 sold here but Red Line Euro-Series oil and Pentosin SP III are produced around this spec.

BMW never certified LL-04 for the US market because a) there weren't many Diesels for sale here, b) it was incompatible with the high amounts of sulfur and Ethanol in US gasoline. However, since 2014 our gasoline more closely matches European sulfur levels and since 2017 it's been lower than the past European levels. Oil analysis can give you more insight how your local fuel is interacting with the oil. LL-04 and LL-01 are interchangeable/compatible but LL-04 is preferred for BMW turbo engines for its higher ZDDP and low SAPS. Food for thought: the official BMW Motorsport oil recommendation for the M4 GT4 race car is a LL-04 spec oil. Our race team has used the Red Line Euro Series 5W40.

LL-12 (2012). New specifications for European market Diesel engines.

LL-14 (2014). API SN. ACEA A1/B1. SAE 0W20. Formulated for certain gasoline BMW engines from the 2014 model year, including the N20 four cylinder engine and all new modular B-series engines. The reasoning for the N20 is unpublished but may have to do with making N20 models more fuel efficient and avoiding gas guzzler and CAFE penalties. LL-14 oils have much lower friction levels than all other BMW oils. The HTHS rating is 2.6cP which makes it unsuitable as a performance oil.

LL-17 (2018). API SN/SP. ACEA C5. SAE 0W20. Replaces the LL-14 spec for N20, B38, B46, B48, and B58 engines. This appears to be a minor update to the LL-14 formula and designed for improved emissions.

[Tejas1836]

If you want the best of the best- Redline Euro 5w30. Ester/PAO, very expensive, but is what I use, I want to keep this last non-hybrid X5M for a long time. See above post, re: BMW Motorsport oil...
If I didn't use Redline, most likely I would use the PP Euro above

[fe7565]

More empirical info on how the Valvoline Restore and Protect works. A caution: if you engine is dirty, keep an eye on your oil filter and replace it sooner vs normal interval while using this oil.

Some background:

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by Tejas1836

That is just a normal full synthetic, it will help clean up to 100% of deposits.
Pennzoil Platinum Euro Spec 5w/30 will do the same

Watched a semi hype video from the oil geek about this oil. They went into a lot of detail about how it is not just a normal oil. It's also not formulated anything like their older cleaning oil because I guess that cleaned too quickly for automotive filters.

It's a semi interesting watch, but seeing as it also gave major infomercial vibes, I dunno that I'd take it at face value.

The real question is what do you think needs cleaned up, and why?

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by fe7565

Looks like Pennzoil Platinum Euro Spec 5w/30 meets BMW LL-04 specs.


BMW-Specific Oil Info https://www.bimmerworld.com/BMW-Engine-Oil/

BMW Engine Oil Approvals


LL-01 (2001 and 2018). API SJ/SL. ACEA A3/B3. SAE 0W30, 5W30, 5W40, 10W60. The first revision with detergents and additives brought in to work with the ridiculous 15,000 mile oil change interval that BMW promoted at the time. However, once cars and engines were out of warranty and mileage accumulated the nasty effects of extended oil changes were realized (i.e. oil sludge). This was also the start of the decline of ZDDP levels with more additives brought in to take its place. LL-01 is compatible with engines approved for LL-98. LL-01 is still coveted as the best of the "old" oil, and the most compatible with sulfur levels of US fuel. Revised standards were applied in 2018 so that more modern engines could meet the LL-01 rating.

Proof? I have an N52 with 425,000 miles and an average lifetime OCI of 12,400 miles. I've opened up both the top end and bottom end for gasket replacements, not a speck of sludge. I've only ever used BMW LL-01 and OE/OEM MANN HU-816 filter. Several change intervals went 18,000 miles, numerous went 17,000 miles.

[fe7565]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

Watched a semi hype video from the oil geek about this oil. They went into a lot of detail about how it is not just a normal oil. It's also not formulated anything like their older cleaning oil because I guess that cleaned too quickly for automotive filters.

It's a semi interesting watch, but seeing as it also gave major infomercial vibes, I dunno that I'd take it at face value.

The real question is what do you think needs cleaned up, and why?

Yes, has some infomercial tone to it...but all claims are explained and not exaggerated. Lake Speed jr (the Oil Geek guy) may have some good relations with them (professional or otherwise), but he does stick with the facts he is aware of.

I do not see any issues with oil consumption in my car, but after 111K miles it must have some carbon accumulation on the rings and the intake valves. So I hope to clean the rings and the combustion chamber. Also, based on the info given in the videos, there may be a residual cleaning action from the exhaust recirculation system carrying the blow by gases mixed with the oil over the intake valves. But this is not something they measured or advertised. They only advertised the rings and combustion chamber.

Direct injection does not clean valves, so short of walnut blast or other invasive methods that require opening the engine block, this may be the safest way to try to ensure the intake valves are clean. If they are still clean, it will not hurt.

However, it supposed to take about 2-4 oil changes for the rings to clean up. So this is not a detergent flush type of process, but a regular oil (with mild detergent qualities) used during normal operation.

[fe7565]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Proof? I have an N52 with 425,000 miles and an average lifetime OCI of 12,400 miles. I've opened up both the top end and bottom end for gasket replacements, not a speck of sludge. I've only ever used BMW LL-01 and OE/OEM MANN HU-816 filter. Several change intervals went 18,000 miles, numerous went 17,000 miles.

My car is about the same as far as BMW spec oil, change intervals, and MANN filter, but only 111k miles. During warranty BMW only changed oil every 15k-20K miles, and I only started to change oil myself after 50k miles, every 7.5k-12k miles. Recently, every 5k-7.5k miles. So, based on your observations, the BMW spec oils also do a great job cleaning. But you visually inspected, and I do not plan to do that, no need yet.

I do not see any measurable oil consumption, my oil level always stays at the max mark until changing oil. It's a bit strange, but not complaining. I figured that although the Valvoline R&P is not BMW specs oil...for 2-4 oil changes under normal driving and oil filter replaced after 500 miles, 1500 miles, 2500 miles, and 5000 miles should not hurt. Then will go back to BMW specs oil.

The Oil Geek guy (Lake Speed Jr) confirmed to me via email that in his opinion this will not harm my N26. He seemed to had some reservations about this method for BMW diesel engines, which mine is not.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by fe7565

Yes, has some infomercial tone to it...but all claims are explained and not exaggerated. Lake Speed jr (the Oil Geek guy) may have some good relations with them (professional or otherwise), but he does stick with the facts he is aware of.

I do not see any issues with oil consumption in my car, but after 111K miles it must have some carbon accumulation on the rings and the intake valves. So I hope to clean the rings and the combustion chamber. Also, based on the info given in the videos, there may be a residual cleaning action from the exhaust recirculation system carrying the blow by gases mixed with the oil over the intake valves. But this is not something they measured or advertised. They only advertised the rings and combustion chamber.

Direct injection does not clean valves, so short of walnut blast or other invasive methods that require opening the engine block, this may be the safest way to try to ensure the intake valves are clean. If they are still clean, it will not hurt.

However, it supposed to take about 2-4 oil changes for the rings to clean up. So this is not a detergent flush type of process, but a regular oil (with mild detergent qualities) used during normal operation.

Agreed, Lake is definitely knowledgeable and gives off vibes that he's a a corporate shill yet, but as with the way the world is, any time a YouTube video slightly gives off infomercial vibes, I assume it's a paid advertisement for the product, and it usually is.

[4JawChuck]

The real issue is the EGR function the ECU is programmed on the engine to reduce emissions, the carbon builds up above the oil control ring pack so I doubt an oil would have any effect on it.

However MMO in the fuel does the trick, you can check via a spark plug pull and camera inspection of the piston tops.

At 60 000kms my pistons were choked with carbon down to the oil control rings.

[DocL]

I started adding 2oz of the Lucas Fuel Injector cleaner now for about three months. It helps with the ethanol content and supposedly cleans the entire fuel system. It's cheap at Costco and probably doesn't hurt.

[David70]

1st video is complete marketing, 2nd video completely independent, 3rd was a tour and explanation of why it's great but all from Valvoline. Independent video showed a 2008 F150, unknown miles or history, tons of sludge in the engine that came out with the oil. 1994 Camry didn't have much come out of it. Interesting that with the F150 he recommended a case of oil filters and replace them every 300 miles but the 3rd video Valvoline says (15:00 in) their oil won't remove sludge fast enough to clog the filter.

There are tons of oil cleaning additives on the market (Liqui Moly, Seafoam, other), with the Camry being 30 years old, well maintained and showing it's clean, I won't buy this oil as I don't have a car close to this old and also maintain mine in a similar way.

All the different additives and extra cleaners seem suspect to me as they are assuming what comes standard isn't good enough. Like using 2x the soap to wash your hands, if they come out clean you don't need more soap.

[fe7565]

Originally Posted by 4JawChuck

The real issue is the EGR function the ECU is programmed on the engine to reduce emissions, the carbon builds up above the oil control ring pack so I doubt an oil would have any effect on it.

However MMO in the fuel does the trick, you can check via a spark plug pull and camera inspection of the piston tops.

At 60 000kms my pistons were choked with carbon down to the oil control rings.

Yes, carbon build up inside the combustion chamber best addressed with fuel additives in direct injection engines. Carbon could cause premature detonation as well...misfire. But oil may slip past the piston rings into the combustion chamber, depending on clearances/wear. So this Valvoline oil's cleaning inside the combustion chamber and on the intake valves are not the primary method it was designed for...but may clean via oil blow-by effect....which may or may not amount to anything substantial depending on your engine's wear and your EGR/PCV system.

At next spark plug change I will remind myself to check inside the chamber with a camera...good idea.

[fe7565]

Originally Posted by DocL

I started adding 2oz of the Lucas Fuel Injector cleaner now for about three months. It helps with the ethanol content and supposedly cleans the entire fuel system. It's cheap at Costco and probably doesn't hurt.

Been using Marvel Mystery Oil for fuel only (Walmart had them for $7, can use it for upto 4 tanks of gas). Before that I used Berryman B-12 for a couple of years.

[fe7565]

Originally Posted by David70

1st video is complete marketing, 2nd video completely independent, 3rd was a tour and explanation of why it's great but all from Valvoline. Independent video showed a 2008 F150, unknown miles or history, tons of sludge in the engine that came out with the oil. 1994 Camry didn't have much come out of it. Interesting that with the F150 he recommended a case of oil filters and replace them every 300 miles but the 3rd video Valvoline says (15:00 in) their oil won't remove sludge fast enough to clog the filter.

There are tons of oil cleaning additives on the market (Liqui Moly, Seafoam, other), with the Camry being 30 years old, well maintained and showing it's clean, I won't buy this oil as I don't have a car close to this old and also maintain mine in a similar way.

All the different additives and extra cleaners seem suspect to me as they are assuming what comes standard isn't good enough. Like using 2x the soap to wash your hands, if they come out clean you don't need more soap.

Yes, there is some contradiction with the claimed slow-working cleaning through 4 oil changes and normal oil filter replacement intervals...vs the independent findings. I assume that each car has different level of sludge/dirt/deposits, and a car that is saturated with deposits will obviously accumulate a lot more sludge faster with this Valvoline oil vs a car that has average/normal deposits. So keeping an eye on the oil filter or the oil itself (which hard since my BMW does not have a dip stick) is important in the first 500-2000 miles of use of this Valvoline oil.

The problem with the oil additives are two fold...IMHO. And you would need a lab and long professional level observation, because the results differ from car to car and from base oil to base oil.

First is what you also pointed out: why use this Valvoline oil, if the OEM spec oil already supposed to clean your engine/keep it clean. So if you used that OEM spec oil and changed it at reasonable intervals...your engine should be clean.

Second is that oil additives may add positive effect to OEM oil in some engines, while negative in others when using different base oils. The chemicals in the oil additive may work in a synergic way with the base oil and lead to excellent cleaning...while it could also destroy the base oil's protective/detergent/lubricating qualities in other situations.

[BlkGS]

That's kind of the point with an oil like this, take the guesswork out. Will this additive work with my oil, etc. you run this stuff, it cleans the motor, you walk away happy.

As to when you'd use it, I can think of 2 off the top oft my head. Case 1) purchase of a used car where you want to clean the engine for whatever reason. 2) dirty piston rings. A buddy has a Q7 with the supercharged V6, and it burns tons of oil due to a design flaw where the piston rings get carbon build up on them and no longer are able to rotate, causing oil blow by. This oil in theory could free them up and resolve the issue, maybe.

[fe7565]

Another supposedly independent video with great results. 10qt capacity Toyota engine burning 1qt oil every 1500 miles since 120k miles. At 190k miles they started using the Valvoline oil an did two oil changes in10k miles, Stopped burning oil.

I have 3ea 5qt 5x20 Valvoline Protect and Restore on the way for $80 from Amazon (-3 x $5 Valvoline factory digital rebate). Already bought two MANN oil filters so ready for doing the first oil change (myself). I do not have any measurable oil consumption after 111k miles, but at the same costs as BMW spec oil change I am willing to go out of specs (with normal driving) for 2-3 oil changes. Will cut the oil filters open, just for curiosity.

Question: how long should I use it? In the comments below the video he responds to someone who commented on how clean his oil is now at 2k miles into the third oil change: "We are on the third oil change since switching to this oil. The first two oil changes were black, so it seems the cleaning is done". Which had me a light go off in my head, because all my 5k-7.5k oil changes are black when using the BMW spec oil. So, it seems that BMW spec oils also do a good job at cleaning the engine. May be that's why I am not burning oil yet at 111k miles.

[fe7565]

Do you need to add additives in your oil?: asks the Oil Geek guy. And he answers: if you need to add additives to your oil, you have the wrong oil. Why? Because some additives can change the chemical qualities of your oil. The extent and effect varies from oil to oil. Some oils do not become corrosive prone, etc....while others may.

[fe7565]

Changed oil to 5w-20 Valvoline R&P yesterday, using Mann oil filter. Will likely change filter at 1000 miles since no way to check oil color.

I don’t think my engine is dirty, but won’t hurt for a couple of oil changes.