[chaz58]

How do you guys set DSC/DTC for the track?

Someone got slammed for suggesting people drive with DTC off at the track not too long ago, while some in the M3 topic think you lose 2 seconds/lap unless you turn everything off.

What do you think? Where do you set DSC/DTC at the track?

[Gearhead999s]

As I have stated many times.All nannies off all the time on the track,dry or wet.DSC or MDM does nothing to improve your driving and will help to raise your brake temps which are marginial at best if you are pushing hard.If you are concerned about your car control skills invest in some skid pad time to learn these skills!.

[chaz58]

Whopse - didn't mean for this to be in the M3 forum.

[blownturbo]

Back when I started, DSC or traction control were not available. That does not mean all these are not useful.

Concerning the M3, you can start with MDM on, and let the car move a little bit sideways. I think full DSC is far too intrusive for track use.

You can actually see when MDM lets the electronics kick in, and evaluate if you are comfortable with it correcting.

You either love it or hate it, depending on your driving skills.

From my experience, when you are starting to drive fast, the car drifts naturally. If you leave MDM on, it will kill your speed.

Just increase the speed with the electronics on, whenever you feel you can go beyond, turn them off.

Be aware your car unleashed will not be all that easy. It weighs a lot and inertia plays a major role in turning. You can take advantage of it, but it will take time. The M3 e92, bone stock, is no race car by any means.

Another downside is tyre wear. It will get problematic when driving fast. You will have to consider major geometry changes which, may alter normal day driving.

[lucid]

There is a detailed discussion on this in one of the sticky threads in the M3 track section:

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=289303

[lucid]

Originally Posted by chaz58

Whopse - didn't mean for this to be in the M3 forum.

I will move it to the E90post track section then.

[Porschefile]

I think it depends on how much you've driven cars on tracks/events similar to what you're doing. When I started doing auto-x I ran DTC then ran full off. When I started doing track days I ran full on and now I run full off. For some reason when I had DTC on at VIR the car went into limp mode way more frequently than with traction full on. More wheelspin/higher revs maybe?

[S4to335]

I have all mine off...but then again...I probably have 130-150 track days under my belt (sorry..lost count)

[RX7guy]

Hmmmmmmmmm

In before the weenies.

Turn it all off.

I'm more concerned about TC than DSC. TC will cut power when you are trying to power out of turns and a little tire slip at full throttle is better than a massive power cut. With an open diff, its very easy to overpower the rear tires on corner exit, and cutting all power will be pretty depressing. A little controlled wheel spin never hurt anyone, but if you're a total noob, maybe leave it on Sport...

my faith in the forum may have been restored

[chaz58]

Interesting that so many people turn everything off when the forum came down hard on RX7 guy for turning his DSC off.

I’ve done this for decades and for the most part don’t even use cars with ABS (much less DTC and DSC). Is there a reason why you would not keep the stability control on for the track?

On my (non M3) car, the DTC off mode only bothers me on hilly tracks. The Stability Control does not like lifting wheels (as often happens on hilly tracks), but if the track is flat (and not patched) I have to be pretty rough to get the “relaxed” stability control to impede my progress.

The traction control is too intrusive for the street, much less the track – although I understand keeping it on for newbie’s. I had wondered why all those BMWs were so darn slow, but that explains it!

[S4to335]

Originally Posted by chaz58

Interesting that so many people turn everything off when the forum came down hard on RX7 guy for turning his DSC off.

I’ve done this for decades and for the most part don’t even use cars with ABS (much less DTC and DSC). Is there a reason why you would not keep the stability control on for the track?

On my (non M3) car, the DTC off mode only bothers me on hilly tracks. The Stability Control does not like lifting wheels (as often happens on hilly tracks), but if the track is flat (and not patched) I have to be pretty rough to get the “relaxed” stability control to impede my progress.

The traction control is too intrusive for the street, much less the track – although I understand keeping it on for newbie’s. I had wondered why all those BMWs were so darn slow, but that explains it!

I havent changed my tune..I still think it is stupid for a newbie to turn off the DSC/DTC until they have good car control skills...and that doesnt mean on their second session of that track day. To reiterate my position...even though I personally turn off that stuff..I still dont recommend turning that off for newbies on track. Its the old "do as I say, not as I do".

[lib]

^ The one thing that worries me about that approach is the thought of someone getting faster & faster and then suddenly turning off the TC and finding out the hard way it was saving his ass.

I know it _shouldn't_ happen that way and a person should know to take it easy once they have TC off for the first time but there's always someone that pushes it too hard that first time and gets into trouble.

IMO, it's better to learn those mistakes while you're going slower. (You're a hell of a lot better at this than I am so you're welcome to tell me I'm wrong. I simply think this way because one of the guys I hang out with ended up doing exactly that right in front of me.)

[Hit_Apex]

Originally Posted by lib

^ The one thing that worries me about that approach is the thought of someone getting faster & faster and then suddenly turning off the TC and finding out the hard way it was saving his ass.

But at least I won't be in the passenger seat!

Seriously, early on in my HPDE career it rained at Buttonwillow and my instructor took the opportunity to turn off DSC so we could "explore" in the slow turns. A good instructor will know when you are ready to explore. However, instructors have different levels of risk tolerance so experiences vary between "I don't care if you're an A student, leave it on" to "hey it's raining, let's play a little and learn something new".

[ellipsis212]

lol @ race cars with electronic nannies!!

[jgalaxy]

I turn DSC/DTC off my XI on the track. As you approach the limits with the car, DSC/DTC will actually impede your performance on the track and may cause serious adverse affects.

Initially when I first got into the sport I started with the nannies on as I took my car closer and closer to the limits. As I got more comfortable I would turn them off to avoid the erratic braking and power cuts that the DSC/DTC system would invoke to try to keep the car under control.

Do it in baby steps. Good luck.

[DrDomer]

Newbies leave it on (first 2-3 track days), gradually take it off. Do NOT take it off the last session of the afternoon when you're most fatigued. There is a lot of teaching the DSC/DTC will do when you have it on. I agree that as you gain experience, having all the nannies off is the fastest way to go.

If you are in the "never have it on" camp, then my rebuttle would be to by a low-powered momentum car that has no traction control to start with as a car to learn in. That's if you are really serious about learning to drive on a track. Gradually work your way up to higher horsepower cars, etc. I know most won't agree with this.

[Dascamel]

Originally Posted by Hit_Apex

But at least I won't be in the passenger seat!

Seriously, early on in my HPDE career it rained at Buttonwillow and my instructor took the opportunity to turn off DSC so we could "explore" in the slow turns. A good instructor will know when you are ready to explore. However, instructors have different levels of risk tolerance so experiences vary between "I don't care if you're an A student, leave it on" to "hey it's raining, let's play a little and learn something new".

+1

If your going to do it, have someone skilled with you the first few times at least....

[chaz58]

The question isn't what should beginners do, it is what do YOU do and why. The beginner thing has been beaten to death.

[S4to335]

Originally Posted by chaz58

The question isn't what should beginners do, it is what do YOU do and why. The beginner thing has been beaten to death.

On my first trip to the track with it...I really didnt like how it reduced the throttle in places where I wanted to be full throttle..so I have been on full disablement since March 2007 with this car.

[DrDomer]

I used it first 2 times on the track and part of the time on my 3rd track day. Then I got tired of overheating and bought a Miata. It has no nannies, and I love it. /story

[chaz58]

+1 Better track car than a BMW.

Originally Posted by DrDomer

I used it first 2 times on the track and part of the time on my 3rd track day. Then I got tired of overheating and bought a Miata. It has no nannies, and I love it. /story

[Hit_Apex]

Originally Posted by DrDomer

Then I got tired of overheating and bought a Miata.

Classic N54 story. Well executed solution.