[5soko]

Hey guys i was thinking.

I know the benefits of having meth and so on, this is just a off the top of the head question:

I rarely go to the track, so when i do go, i would throw a 5-10 gallons of ms109 in the tank and run Map 8.

With meth, you can run map 8 aswell as its like running 100+octane all the time.

In terms of power what would the difference be here.

Not taking into accounting money vs use and such.

[JayKay335i]

I feel that you'd probably wind up with a little more power from meth due to the deceased IATs. There should be some dynos around here of race gas maps as well as meth maps to compare.

[enrita]

yes i guess the real plus with meth is that it lowers IAT and Engine temperature as well. Go with Meth :-)

[badass1g]

if you put say 110 octane, and had meth, would it be like going from 91 octane to the 104+ that people say meth equates to? (so pretty much would be like running apprx 125 octane) kinda be like race gas on steriods?

[GeorgiaTech335coupe]

I think that you'd have a little more power with MS109 being 105 octane. I think meth + 93 wouldn't give you as much gains if you already have an upgraded FMIC with 105 octane, IMO.

[Former_Boosted_IS]

Originally Posted by GeorgiaTech335coupe

I think that you'd have a little more power with MS109 being 105 octane. I think meth + 93 wouldn't give you as much gains if you already have an upgraded FMIC with 105 octane, IMO.

Methanol is a different animal in a sense. It is not just resistence to knock, but evap cooling that makes it so effective. Think about it like this, MS109 is more resistent to knock and that is it. This allows much more heat in the combustion chamber without pre-ignition occurring. If you add water/methanol on top of that, well now you are cooling the charge substantially. The bottom line is you can add more boost now before you would knock on the same MS109 because the charge is so much cooler.

My experience shows no knock with pump and a 66/34 methanol-to-water mix (540 ml/min) on JB3 Map 8/9. I did get some KR on Map 10, but it was the last dyno run so it is hard to pinpoint the cause. Since then, I have raised my injection to around 650 ml/min and I will be dyno'ing that again soon to see if there are any differences.

[GeorgiaTech335coupe]

Originally Posted by Former_Boosted_IS

Methanol is a different animal in a sense. It is not just resistence to knock, but evap cooling that makes it so effective. Think about it like this, MS109 is more resistent to knock and that is it. This allows much more heat in the combustion chamber without pre-ignition occurring. If you add water/methanol on top of that, well now you are cooling the charge substantially. The bottom line is you can add more boost now before you would knock on the same MS109 because the charge is so much cooler.

My experience shows no knock with pump and a 66/34 methanol-to-water mix (540 ml/min) on JB3 Map 8/9. I did get some KR on Map 10, but it was the last dyno run so it is hard to pinpoint the cause. Since then, I have raised my injection to around 650 ml/min and I will be dyno'ing that again soon to see if there are any differences.

Yes, I know the difference between the two. My point was that 105 octane may still be better than ~100 octane w/cooling effects of meth. It probably depends on mods and weather.

[Former_Boosted_IS]

Originally Posted by GeorgiaTech335coupe

Yes, I know the difference between the two. My point was that 105 octane may still be better than ~100 octane w/cooling effects of meth. It probably depends on mods and weather.

What I am saying is that both is best. You can always drop MS109 in anytime you want.

[5soko]

OK so are we agreeing that MS109 and Meth make around the same power dis-regarding IAT and other factors?

Now im talking drag strip runs 0-120mph or so, if they make the same power from there respective octane level and there effects, then the next thing to look at is that Ms109 wont lower IAT and keep them as cool during the run as meth would.

Now how much cooler will meth keep IAt compared to MS109 on a stock intercooler and how much of that cooler IAT will translate in measurable WHP during that 1 single run.

[Former_Boosted_IS]

Originally Posted by 5soko335i

OK so are we agreeing that MS109 and Meth make around the same power dis-regarding IAT and other factors?

Now im talking drag strip runs 0-120mph or so, if they make the same power from there respective octane level and there effects, then the next thing to look at is that Ms109 wont lower IAT and keep them as cool during the run as meth would.

Now how much cooler will meth keep IAt compared to MS109 on a stock intercooler and how much of that cooler IAT will translate in measurable WHP during that 1 single run.

I have measured the IATs with the exact same mods. The tests were done with a STETT CAI, AA FMIC, and every other bolt on known to man. The air temperatures, humidity, and pressure were nearly identical. I came up with a best of 109F on multiple gear pulls without methanol and 75F max with the Snow Performance Stage 3 kit. That is a drop of 34F from the methanol. With the stock intercooler and DCI, I measured about 154F at heat soak. That is 79F cooler with my setup. Here is the log:



Now this is repeatable over and over and over.

[5soko]

Great test former, i was looking for exactly that!! i can def see meth with such a intense cooling effect have enough of a effect on IAT on a long WOT to show a consistent amount power throughout that run compared to Ms109 race even though creating power not being able to sustain it throughout that entire run.

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Depending on your boost level you may want to run both!

Mike

[beepbeep]

Not to be a PITA, but for new readers of the thread(s), the water component does most of the cooling. Also, very high output aviation engines in WW2 used 140 Octane gas (much lead) and water injection to boot. No matter how high the octane, water injection just adds more power (boost) capability.
Cheers

[SnowTech.4]

^Good info.

But with regard to cooling; water does have a higher latent heat of vaporization, but it does not absorb heat as quickly as methanol. A great example of this is putting some alcohol on your skin. It feels very cool because it absorbs heat so readily, but then it is gone quickly due to a relatively low latent heat of vaporization. Water will not feel as cool, but it will stay on your skin longer because it abosrbs more before evaporating.

Long story short, methanol plays a big role in the IAT drops because it absorbs a lot of heat almots instantly, and water plays a big role in controlling actual combustion temps.

[Former_Boosted_IS]

Originally Posted by 5soko335i

Great test former, i was looking for exactly that!! i can def see meth with such a intense cooling effect have enough of a effect on IAT on a long WOT to show a consistent amount power throughout that run compared to Ms109 race even though creating power not being able to sustain it throughout that entire run.

No problem at all.

[White335i10]

You do not need a KILL SWITCH for MS109.......enough said.

[JayKay335i]

Originally Posted by White335i10

You do not need a KILL SWITCH for MS109.......enough said.

Nor do you for meth when running the right precautionary measures.

[White335i10]

Originally Posted by JayKay335i

Nor do you for meth when running the right precautionary measures.

Alot more can go wrong with Meth, I would know, I have ran meth on 4 different cars (not any problems personally to me though). Matters on the level of aggressive tunning you have done for it and anyone in their right mind would have a kill switch involved. "Precautionary" measures only work for so long.

[JayKay335i]

I believe at least one, if not both of the big two piggy back tunes have "meth maps" that switch to meth maps under certain conditions. If there is any interruption in flow they automatically switch back to a lower map to prevent you from nuking the motor.

I dont believe those with flashes have this sort of capability yet.