[JackSpadesSI]

I’m looking to buy a new 2011 BMW 335i Sedan this week. I’d like your thoughts on the following:

Base 2011 335i Sedan (manual, RWD) = $40,600
Jet Black/Black Leatherette/Aluminum Trim = $0
Cold Weather Package = $1,150
Heated Steering Wheel = $0 (with CWP)
Satellite radio with 1 year subscription = $350
iPod and USB adapter = $400
BMW Assist with Bluetooth = $750
Harman Kardon surround sound system = $875
Navigation system = $2,100
Destination & Handling = $875
TOTAL MSRP = $47,100

Firstly, can someone tell me what the dealer’s invoice is on this car (as equipped)? I searched online and found one number, but after asking dealerships they claim other numbers (some lower than what I found!). I would like to know how much profit each offer below represents to the dealer.

Offer #1:
Car w/ destination = $43,640.00
Doc fee = $180.00
Tax, title, plate transfer = $2,652.20
Total “out the door” = $46,472.20
Notes: claimed this was their rock-bottom best price

Offer #2:
Car w/ destination = $43,698.00
Doc fee = $190.00
Tax, title, plate transfer = $2,680.88
Total “out the door” = $46,568.88
Notes: when told about a better offer, said they had “hundreds, not thousands” left to lower

My POTENTIAL counter to #2:
Car w/ destination = $43,397.17
Doc fee = $190.00
Tax, title, plate transfer = $2,662.83
Total “out the door” = $46,250.00
Notes: I just worked backwards from $46,250.00… that’s why the car price is a strange figure

Please rate all three offers (#1, #2, and #2’s counter) from 1-10. 10 is “practically stealing the car” and 1 is “all your friends will laugh at you”.

I’ve got to get back with both dealerships on Monday, so your input is greatly appreciated as soon as possible. Thanks!

[serg1282]

Invoice as built: $43,345

Offer 1 = Invoice + 295

Offer 2 = Invoice + 353

Since all else is basically equal, offer 1 is better unless you can get #2 to accept your counter (which I doubt they will).

In terms of ratings they're basically both about 8. I'd consider anything within Invoice + 500 to be a good deal. I think for a 9 you'd need to be getting invoice, for a 10 something less than invoice.

[Frzdrdhppy]

In your post you said you're buying, not leasing. If that's the case I'd drop the Nav system and add the premium package. That way not only would you get leather dakota seating plus some extras, you will have better resale and the MSRP would be $46,900 with same other options. If you need navigation, buy a Garmin for $150.

Just my $.02

[JackSpadesSI]

Originally Posted by serg1282

Invoice as built: $43,345

Offer 1 = Invoice + 295

Offer 2 = Invoice + 353

Since all else is basically equal, offer 1 is better unless you can get #2 to accept your counter (which I doubt they will).

In terms of ratings they're basically both about 8. I'd consider anything within Invoice + 500 to be a good deal. I think for a 9 you'd need to be getting invoice, for a 10 something less than invoice.

Thanks for providing an invoice number. From that number, I assume you find the invoice price of the base car to be $37,350. I had been looking at AOL Autos, which claimed the base invoice to be $37,530. Dyslexia on their part, perhaps?

So I guess a little more definition on the numbers is in order:
10 = below invoice
9 = extremely close to invoice
5-6 = the statistically-average selling price
2 = extremely close to MSRP
1 = over MSRP

Remember, their offers may be low, but they're adding a $180/$190 doc fee to the cost. At LEAST $150 of which is likely dealer profit. Therefore, you can't really look at 'Offer - Invoice' to claim a good deal, it must be 'Offer + Doc Fee - Invoice'.

Are offers #1 and #2 still an 8 by these new definitions? What about my counter ($43,397.17), is it a 9?

[JackSpadesSI]

Originally Posted by Frzdrdhppy

In your post you said you're buying, not leasing. If that's the case I'd drop the Nav system and add the premium package. That way not only would you get leather dakota seating plus some extras, you will have better resale and the MSRP would be $46,900 with same other options. If you need navigation, buy a Garmin for $150.

Just my $.02

Thanks for your input. I'm absolutely with you that no one should buy a $2,100 Navigation system if they're just looking to find their way from point A to point B.

To me: 70% of the value of the Navigation system is its interface with the stereo system (music on a hard drive, playing MP3s off a DVD, etc.); 20% is the LCD screen (way better way to read information than the standard 2-line readout in red font for music and Bluetooth phone contacts, and frankly it looks awesome); and 10% as a GPS unit.

That said, is the Navigation system still way overpriced? YES! But, I don't know of any way to get all of that and have it look so good in the car.

As for the Premium Package, I'm really not into real leather seating. Sure, they're REALLY comfortable, but I know I'll never put in the time for the upkeep required for real leather. I have friends with 5-year old cars which have leather seats - they're all cracked and some have tears.

You make an interesting point about the resale value of the car not favoring the Navigation system. I do plan to own this car for some time, though. So, while resale value would be fantastic, I'm not going own a car that isn't exactly right for me for so long just to make a few extra $ in the end.

[serg1282]

Originally Posted by JackSpadesSI

Thanks for providing an invoice number. From that number, I assume you find the invoice price of the base car to be $37,350. I had been looking at AOL Autos, which claimed the base invoice to be $37,530. Dyslexia on their part, perhaps?

So I guess a little more definition on the numbers is in order:
10 = below invoice
9 = extremely close to invoice
5-6 = the statistically-average selling price
2 = extremely close to MSRP
1 = over MSRP

Remember, their offers may be low, but they're adding a $180/$190 doc fee to the cost. At LEAST $150 of which is likely dealer profit. Therefore, you can't really look at 'Offer - Invoice' to claim a good deal, it must be 'Offer + Doc Fee - Invoice'.

Are offers #1 and #2 still an 8 by these new definitions? What about my counter ($43,397.17), is it a 9?

You are correct that invoice on the car is 37350.

Yea I tried to avoid talking about the doc fee and tax/title/plate transfer.

Doc fee: this is probably the most variable cost of the bunch. Some people report dealers waiving it entirely. Some people report fees of around what you were quoted and everywhere in between. I would say a fair doc fee is 50 bucks. That said, I don't imagine they'll be too willing to negotiate this, especially if they're giving you an offer relatively close to invoice. The way to make this disappear would be to shave money off the out the door price (if possible).

Tax: Don't think this is negotiable unfortunately.

Title: This is going to vary by which state you're in - you should research what other people pay in your area and compare. If its drastically different you can try brining it up.

Plate transfer: Should be similar to the title fee. Negotiate if you find a big discrepancy between what you and others are paying.

Regardless of all those fees, however, I still think you're getting a good deal in any of those cases. Also keep in mind that being too pushy with the price may end up coming back and biting you in the ass later. I would say that if the tones of the negotiations have been good thus far you should probably take one of the deals without giving them much hassle. Being on good terms with your SA / dealer has its benefits vs being known as the guy cheaping out over a couple hundred bucks. As an example, for each $100 added to a 36 month loan you're paying an additional $3.10/month (just for some perspective).

Good luck with your purchase and make sure to post up some pics when she arrives.

[FrankiE90]

those offers are great deals nothing
to be ashamed of. Both very close
to invoice.

i love the bmw navi.

[egtlover74]

No Sport? I am assuming you are getting 6sp manual. You should get sport with it.

[JackSpadesSI]

Originally Posted by egtlover74

No Sport? I am assuming you are getting 6sp manual. You should get sport with it.

Yeah, it is a manual. I'm not getting the Sport Package because I like the comfort of the standard seats. This car will, after all, be used for casual commuting 99% of the year. Also, I plan to upgrade the suspension and wheels later on my own.

[JackSpadesSI]

Awesome update…

After thinking that they weren’t going to get back to me, Offer #3 came in from another dealership saying that they’d beat Offer #1 by $400:

Offer #3:
Car w/ destination = $43,240.00
Doc fee = $190.00
Tax, title, plate transfer = $2,654.24
Total “out the door” = $46,084.24

Then, Offer #2 said they really wanted to earn my business. I gave them a counter really close to Offer #3 because, frankly, their dealership looked way nicer and I’d rather buy from them anyway.

New Offer #2:
Car w/ destination = $43,200.00
Doc fee = $190.00
Tax, title, plate transfer = $2,651.84
Total “out the door” = $46,041.84
Notes: AND they’ll include carpeted floor mats!

New Offer #2 was accepted, and at $145 below invoice I’m pretty dang happy! That’s got to be a 10 on my 1-10 scale – maybe a 9.5 at worst!

I’m going to order it on Friday!!!

[serg1282]

Congrats, nice deal

[jferrell]

that's a crazy deal, coming from a CA. btw the guy that qoutes doc fees at 75% markup where do you get this stuff