"2nd generation" motor coming for 335i already??

KevinC · 01-13-2007, 04:27 PM

From the new issue of Autoweek that just arrived, describing the refreshed 5-series that's about to show up as an '08 model...

...all-new inline six-cylinder engines-the turbo model fitted with the German carmaker's second-generation High Precision direct injection fuel system. The updated engines, which head into other BMW models throughout 2007, don't offer any great increase in power or torque but are more economical and emit lower levels of cardon dioxide than their predecessors.

Maybe I'm reading too much between the lines, but "2nd generation" direct injection? Does this not sound like something new already?

SpiralOut · 01-13-2007, 04:29 PM

This is the first I've heard about this. I'm sure they'll update them eventually, but I didn't think it would be this soon.

BMW F22 · 01-13-2007, 04:31 PM

I think I've read that BMW has used DI somewhere in the past (it could have been some other maker I dunno).

SP330 · 01-13-2007, 04:37 PM

I believe this is speculation on the N53 engine (essentially an N52 with the direct injection and such). The N52 was simply a shoe-in for the N53 since its inception.

ironic · 01-13-2007, 04:37 PM

i'm getting kind of pissed off w/ bmws marketing strategies /rant

MBrown1003 · 01-13-2007, 04:40 PM

I've been reading some of the service training literature from the engine and forced induction thread. Our cars have second-generation Direct Injection. First generation was the 2003 760Li.

STE92VE · 01-13-2007, 04:43 PM

I may be reading the article wrong, but aren't these engines in the 2007 3 series already? They will be new to the 5 series though.

picus · 01-13-2007, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BimmerEnvy

I may be reading the article wrong, but aren't these engines in the 2007 3 series already? They will be new to the 5 series though.

That's how I'm reading it to...

sflgator · 01-13-2007, 05:12 PM

The '07 335i's N52 engine is a 'direct injection' tt engine.

Hawkshaw · 01-13-2007, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ismithnc

I'm sure they'll update them eventually, but I didn't think it would be this soon.

That's what I thought about my 330i.

Norsk · 01-13-2007, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KevinC

From the new issue of Autoweek that just arrived, describing the refreshed 5-series that's about to show up as an '08 model...

...all-new inline six-cylinder engines-the turbo model fitted with the German carmaker's second-generation High Precision direct injection fuel system. The updated engines, which head into other BMW models throughout 2007, don't offer any great increase in power or torque but are more economical and emit lower levels of cardon dioxide than their predecessors.

Maybe I'm reading too much between the lines, but "2nd generation" direct injection? Does this not sound like something new already?

Yes you are reading too much into it.

This "[i]...all-new inline six-cylinder engines-the turbo model fitted with the German carmaker's second-generation High Precision direct injection fuel system" ... is what's in the 2007 BMW E90/91/92/93 335i.

No need to start Hyperventilating.

Brett · 01-13-2007, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KevinC

From the new issue of Autoweek...all-new inline six-cylinder engines-the turbo model fitted with the German carmaker's second-generation High Precision direct injection fuel system. The updated engines, which head into other BMW models throughout 2007, don't offer any great increase in power or torque but are more economical and emit lower levels of cardon dioxide than their predecessors.

I highlighted the key letter in the quote. The 335i already has the second-generation DI system. The article is not clear in its meaning, but they are referring to the DI technology being available in OTHER engines (such as the 323i, 328i, 650i, etc.).

-Brett

undecided · 01-13-2007, 11:07 PM

If the 2nd gen DI 3.0 liter I-6 gets 273hp then how come the addition of 2 turbos only give it only another 27hp? Does the NA 3 liter I-6 still get valvetronic in addition to getting the 2nd gen DI? I think Audi is going there with their 3.1 liter V6. With DI they got 255hp and they're adding something similar to valvetronic to get 300hp all NA. BMW claimed that valvetronic + DI did not add up to cumulative gains. Some of the gains were redundant.

CZ

JF · 01-13-2007, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by undecided

If the 2nd gen DI 3.0 liter I-6 gets 273hp then how come the addition of 2 turbos only give it only another 27hp? ...
CZ

A lot of people think that the N54, at 300hp, is underrated by BMW...

Robert Venable · 01-14-2007, 01:21 AM

Ok, the 330 motor is the N52 guys, and the 335 is the N54.

The 335 and the 760 are the only gasoline powered DI BMW engines (not getting into the new NEW MINI). The N52 and others are not DI because they do not inject fuel "DIRECTLY" into the combustion chamber as do the 335 and 760 "DIRECT INJECTION" motors do.

As far as the training I have recieved, Valvetronic is used to "reduce pumping losses," From the vacuum caused on the back side of the throttle bodys on non-Valvetronic engines. Since the N54 has a turbo that also does the same thing (it actually has pressure forcing air into the cyl. instead of placing a the intake under a vacuum). This is why valvetronic + DI are not redundant, and the 760 uses valvetronic + DI and the 335 does not.

tctic · 01-14-2007, 04:17 AM

760i engine = 1st Generation DI
ALL current and at least near future 335i and soon to be 535i = 2nd Generation DI

The N54 engine does not have valvetronic. Maybe BMW will incorporate that in sometime in the future? The N53 engines, not available in North America, are not forced induction engines. They are 2nd Gen DI I6 engines capable of lean burn mode. This is speculated to be available in the US when low sulphur gasoline is available.

fueledbymetal · 01-14-2007, 06:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by undecided

If the 2nd gen DI 3.0 liter I-6 gets 273hp then how come the addition of 2 turbos only give it only another 27hp? Does the NA 3 liter I-6 still get valvetronic in addition to getting the 2nd gen DI? I think Audi is going there with their 3.1 liter V6. With DI they got 255hp and they're adding something similar to valvetronic to get 300hp all NA. BMW claimed that valvetronic + DI did not add up to cumulative gains. Some of the gains were redundant.

CZ

Peak horsepower is only part of the answer. The real gain is the HUGE increase in torque across the entire powerband.

Lassaxi · 01-14-2007, 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tctic

760i engine = 1st Generation DI
ALL current and at least near future 335i and soon to be 535i = 2nd Generation DI

The N54 engine does not have valvetronic. Maybe BMW will incorporate that in sometime in the future? The N53 engines, not available in North America, are not forced induction engines. They are 2nd Gen DI I6 engines capable of lean burn mode. This is speculated to be available in the US when low sulphur gasoline is available.

This is the correct answer. The 335i already has the second-generation direct injection engine. The 7 series had the first-generation DI engine. The key difference, as I understand it, is that the second-gen DI has the lean burn mode that significantly improves fuel economy. The 335i can't take full advantage of the leanest burn mode available yet because we don't have low-sulphur gas here (at least it is not widely available).

Valvetronic will come in time. It's benefit on a second-generation DI engine is debatable (if the engine already has a lean-burn mode, you're not going to gain too much more efficiency by adding valvetronic), but I'm sure we'll see it in the future.

RiXst3r · 01-14-2007, 08:42 AM

There is nothing new here, 335 already has 2nd gen DI, I though everyone knew that.

dmboone25 · 01-14-2007, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by picus

That's how I'm reading it to...

+1

mundo74 · 01-14-2007, 11:44 AM

The current 2nd generstion DI in the 335 does not have "lean burn". Maybe this is what the article is reffering to. I guess they just have to recode the ECU to do that. Only question is, is the US gasoline moving to low sulphur as the diesels. I was checking the EPA website but found nothing.

Insider · 01-14-2007, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by undecided

If the 2nd gen DI 3.0 liter I-6 gets 273hp then how come the addition of 2 turbos only give it only another 27hp? Does the NA 3 liter I-6 still get valvetronic in addition to getting the 2nd gen DI? I think Audi is going there with their 3.1 liter V6. With DI they got 255hp and they're adding something similar to valvetronic to get 300hp all NA. BMW claimed that valvetronic + DI did not add up to cumulative gains. Some of the gains were redundant.

CZ

The reason why it only has 300 hp is in this article

http://www.eurotuner.com/featuredveh...mw_335i_coupe/

01-13-2007, 04:27 PM	#1
KevinC your average JAMF 3521 Rep 4,189 Posts Drives: '21 M2 Comp, '19 Golf R Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Cochise County, AZ iTrader: (0) Garage List 2019 VW Golf R [5.00] 2021 BMW M2 Competi ... [3.50]	"2nd generation" motor coming for 335i already?? From the new issue of Autoweek that just arrived, describing the refreshed 5-series that's about to show up as an '08 model... ...all-new inline six-cylinder engines-the turbo model fitted with the German carmaker's second-generation High Precision direct injection fuel system. The updated engines, which head into other BMW models throughout 2007, don't offer any great increase in power or torque but are more economical and emit lower levels of cardon dioxide than their predecessors. Maybe I'm reading too much between the lines, but "2nd generation" direct injection? Does this not sound like something new already? __________________ '21 M2 Comp '19 Golf R
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01-13-2007, 04:29 PM	#2
SpiralOut Captain 165 Rep 881 Posts Drives: 2022 X5Mc Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: NC iTrader: (11)	This is the first I've heard about this. I'm sure they'll update them eventually, but I didn't think it would be this soon.
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01-13-2007, 04:31 PM	#3
BMW F22 Major General 3666 Rep 9,783 Posts Drives: ///M235i Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Bay Area iTrader: (8)	I think I've read that BMW has used DI somewhere in the past (it could have been some other maker I dunno).
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01-13-2007, 04:37 PM	#4
SP330 Lieutenant 33 Rep 590 Posts Drives: 19 M5 Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: PA iTrader: (0)	I believe this is speculation on the N53 engine (essentially an N52 with the direct injection and such). The N52 was simply a shoe-in for the N53 since its inception.
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01-13-2007, 04:37 PM	#5
ironic Major General 269 Rep 8,338 Posts Drives: Jet Black 335i Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: San Francisco, Ca iTrader: (22)	i'm getting kind of pissed off w/ bmws marketing strategies /rant __________________ Widebody 335i Project Car BUILD \| PHOTOSHOOT
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01-13-2007, 04:40 PM	#6
MBrown1003 Current BMW is from one of the British subs 36 Rep 762 Posts Drives: RR Ghost, Miata RF, Golf R Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Massachusetts, USA iTrader: (0)	I've been reading some of the service training literature from the engine and forced induction thread. Our cars have second-generation Direct Injection. First generation was the 2003 760Li. __________________ 2016 Rolls-Royce Ghost, 2018 VW Golf R, 2022 Mazda MX-5 RF Previously... Threes: '08 E90 M3, '07 E92 335i, Fives: '14 F10 M5, '11 F10 550i, '02 E39 M5, '00 E39 540i/6, '97 E39 528i, '92 E34 525i Others: VW, MBz, Peugeot, Toyota, Olds
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01-13-2007, 04:43 PM	#7
STE92VE STEVIL Empire 226 Rep 6,297 Posts Drives: Fast Join Date: May 2006 Location: Long Island, NY iTrader: (0)	I may be reading the article wrong, but aren't these engines in the 2007 3 series already? They will be new to the 5 series though.
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01-13-2007, 05:12 PM	#9
sflgator Major General 166 Rep 5,389 Posts Drives: '09 MB C63 AMG & '08 MB GL450 Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: U.S. iTrader: (1)	The '07 335i's N52 engine is a 'direct injection' tt engine. __________________ \|2009 RENNtech MB C63 AMG \| Black/Black Leather/Black Maple \| Premium II \| MultiMedia \| iPod \| \| TeleAid \| Charcoal Filter Delete \| BMC High-Flow Air Filters \| High-Flow Secondary Cats \| Clear Side Markers \|
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01-13-2007, 11:07 PM	#13
undecided Captain 87 Rep 985 Posts Drives: 08 M5 Sapphire Black Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: CT iTrader: (0) Garage List 2008 335xi SOLD!!!! ... [0.00] 2008 M5 [0.00]	I have question then regarding the turbo gains If the 2nd gen DI 3.0 liter I-6 gets 273hp then how come the addition of 2 turbos only give it only another 27hp? Does the NA 3 liter I-6 still get valvetronic in addition to getting the 2nd gen DI? I think Audi is going there with their 3.1 liter V6. With DI they got 255hp and they're adding something similar to valvetronic to get 300hp all NA. BMW claimed that valvetronic + DI did not add up to cumulative gains. Some of the gains were redundant. CZ
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01-14-2007, 01:21 AM	#15
Robert Venable Certified BMW Tech 0 Rep 22 Posts Drives: 2007 Montego Blue 335i Sedan Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Baton Rouge, LA iTrader: (0)	Ok, the 330 motor is the N52 guys, and the 335 is the N54. The 335 and the 760 are the only gasoline powered DI BMW engines (not getting into the new NEW MINI). The N52 and others are not DI because they do not inject fuel "DIRECTLY" into the combustion chamber as do the 335 and 760 "DIRECT INJECTION" motors do. As far as the training I have recieved, Valvetronic is used to "reduce pumping losses," From the vacuum caused on the back side of the throttle bodys on non-Valvetronic engines. Since the N54 has a turbo that also does the same thing (it actually has pressure forcing air into the cyl. instead of placing a the intake under a vacuum). This is why valvetronic + DI are not redundant, and the 760 uses valvetronic + DI and the 335 does not.
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01-14-2007, 04:17 AM	#16
tctic Major 41 Rep 1,238 Posts Drives: BMW E90 Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Canada iTrader: (0)	760i engine = 1st Generation DI ALL current and at least near future 335i and soon to be 535i = 2nd Generation DI The N54 engine does not have valvetronic. Maybe BMW will incorporate that in sometime in the future? The N53 engines, not available in North America, are not forced induction engines. They are 2nd Gen DI I6 engines capable of lean burn mode. This is speculated to be available in the US when low sulphur gasoline is available.
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01-14-2007, 08:42 AM	#19
RiXst3r 288 Rep 6,510 Posts Drives: M235i Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Ohio iTrader: (14)	There is nothing new here, 335 already has 2nd gen DI, I though everyone knew that.
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01-14-2007, 11:44 AM	#21
mundo74 Lieutenant 70 Rep 564 Posts Drives: F10M5 Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: P.Pines, FL iTrader: (2)	The current 2nd generstion DI in the 335 does not have "lean burn". Maybe this is what the article is reffering to. I guess they just have to recode the ECU to do that. Only question is, is the US gasoline moving to low sulphur as the diesels. I was checking the EPA website but found nothing.
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