[marconi118]

This is a request to all flash providers for MSD80 N54 engines.

Is it possible to read the MSD80 of car #1 that has pre 29.2 software, apply the tune (change the values on the different tables), fix the CRC for the VIN and DME of car #2 that was pre 29.2 (same build date as car #1) but was flashed to 32.1 for waste-gate rattle.


This would be a great way for all of us to go back to pre 29.2 and get rid of the turbo lag.

I think this could be a business opportunity for all flash providers

[techlogik]

Why would the flash be affected by the DME version? They write their own tables for boost etc...there is no lag with the flash.

[marconi118]

Originally Posted by techlogik

Why would the flash be affected by the DME version? They write their own tables for boost etc...there is no lag with the flash.

not sure, if the boost control logic remains the same, but only the target boost values change, then the lag is still there.

Actually I only need to revert to the pre 29.2 program, without a tune.

[tscdennab]

A "flash" is usually a series of tables. There is also a base software which manipulates the values in the tables. I believe that serious tuners also reverse engineer/re-engineer the algorithms, not only the tables. Because, how otherwise would they implement map switching and different maps ? They must alter the software too, for this to work. Someone at GIAC would probably be much more pertinent on this matter...

[blisstik]

I was told by Austin that GIAC removes all instances of turbo lag regardless of stock software version.

[JayKay335i]

Originally Posted by blisstik

I was told by Austin that GIAC removes all instances of turbo lag regardless of stock software version.

There is no such thing as completely removing turbo lag from a turbo car.

[marconi118]

Originally Posted by JayKay335i

There is no such thing as completely removing turbo lag from a turbo car.

we are talking about the lag induced by the DME program

of course the mechanical lag (due to turbo geometry) is still there, but I can ensure you it is quite unnoticeable.
on the stock N54 turbos the lag is only caused by the post 29.2 program.
I drive now a E92 MSD80 pre 29.2 and no lag at all, it is like a N/A engine

I would save my E93 and revert it to pre 29.2, that is what I am asking to the tuners, GIAC etc...

[techlogik]

I'm not sure what DME version I have, but there is no lag from the software version. GIAC flash resolves that, plus makes the throttle response much better between 1-2K rpm.

[marconi118]

I think that lot of 2006-2007 N54 owners would like to go back to pre 29.2 and get definitely rid of the lag.

A tuner that would offer this for 2-300$ could make a lot of money!
And a great service to the community

[tscdennab]

Originally Posted by marconi118

I think that lot of 2006-2007 N54 owners would like to go back to pre 29.2 and get definitely rid of the lag.

A tuner that would offer this for 2-300$ could make a lot of money!
And a great service to the community

A better idea would be for a tuner to only remove the turbo-lag part from the newest software. This way you still get the improvements that the new software brings (like pre-priming the HPFP to make it last more or whatever), while getting rid of the turbo lag.

I really hope GIAC has succeeded in eliminating the software-induced turbo lag.

[dzenno]

Actually this brings a good question to the table..what/how much does GIAC modify with their flash? I don't think they rewrite software and that they only adjust the tuning tables..Austin?

[Mr. 5]

Actually, all cars flashed with GIAC whether they are msd80 or 81 will behave like pre 29.2.

When I was beta testing for them, I was very adamant about making sure that the wastegates were completely closed during idle and cruising which is the same behavior as pre 29.2.
The 29.2 program opened the wastegates at idle and cruising and this is why the lag was introduced because now the wastegates have to close and then build boost (which takes time---lag)

This is one of the things that I initially wrote up about GIAC and why I was so happy about them taking care of the lag.

[Mr. 5]

Originally Posted by dzenno

Actually this brings a good question to the table..what/how much does GIAC modify with their flash? I don't think they rewrite software and that they only adjust the tuning tables..Austin?

They broke down the OEM software and started from scratch.

[marconi118]

Originally Posted by Mr. 5

They broke down the OEM software and started from scratch.

Do you think it is possible for GIAC to read a pre 29.2 car DME and then reflash it to on another car that was pre 29.2 but was updated by the dealer?

Latest 3x.x version of the program with the turbo retrofit have the wastegates closed at idle, but are opened at cruise, the lag is reduced but still there.

I can compare as I can drive both pre 29.2 E92 and pre 29.2 E93 updated to 32.1 with the turbo retrofit for the rattle.

The pre 29.2 has immediate response by the slightest movement of gas pedal, even as low as 1300rpm.

The 32.1 E93 is lazy, wakes up after 2000rpm, need more gas pedal travel. It seems there is an elastic between the pedal and the engine.

On the pre 29.2 it is tight direct control, a joy to drive

Does GIAC use the pre 29.2 wastegate control algorithm on their flash?

[Mr. 5]

Originally Posted by marconi118

Do you think it is possible for GIAC to read a pre 29.2 car DME and then reflash it to on another car that was pre 29.2 but was updated by the dealer?

Latest 3x.x version of the program with the turbo retrofit have the wastegates closed at idle, but are opened at cruise, the lag is reduced but still there.

I don't know exactly but I do know that there are multiple GIAC files that depend on the VIN and file that's in there now.

Also, I'll bet you that the 3x.x versioin that you're talking about that closed the wastegates were MSD81 ECUs. I have the MSD80 ECU and had 32.2 and my wastegates were open. Once I had GIAC installed, the wastegates were closed.

Originally Posted by marconi118

Does GIAC use the pre 29.2 wastegate control algorithm on their flash?

Yes. It's based on 25.2

[blisstik]

Let's say you have the 39.2 or whichever primes the fuel pump upon unlocking the door, does GIAC incorporate all these new features and just applies the boost/timing logic from 25.2?

The priming of the fuel pump was just an example. How about any fixes they apply to the radio or any other system in the car.

Originally Posted by Mr. 5

Yes. It's based on 25.2

[marconi118]

Originally Posted by Mr. 5

I don't know exactly but I do know that there are multiple GIAC files that depend on the VIN and file that's in there now.

Also, I'll bet you that the 3x.x versioin that you're talking about that closed the wastegates were MSD81 ECUs. I have the MSD80 ECU and had 32.2 and my wastegates were open. Once I had GIAC installed, the wastegates were closed.



Yes. It's based on 25.2

My 2 335i

#1 E92 build 05/07 MSD80 pre 29.2 never updated but new turbos, no lag goes like a hell

#2 E93 build 07/07 MSD80 pre 29.2 new turbos, updated to 32.1, turbo retrofit activated: the wastegates are closed at idle (i checked) but suspect they are open at cruise, there is lag, car feels slow.

so Yes I vould be more than happy to revert the car #2 to pre 29.2 using the program of car #1

YES I know that the file has to be modified according to the VIN, that is exactly what I am askinf for:
take the file from car #1 modify it according to VIN of car #2 and then flash car #2

[Mr. 5]

I'm not disagreeing with you but are you 100% sure that they are closed?
When you first start the car, the wastegates close initially but let it idle for about 5 minutes and see if they open or not.

If they really are closed then I'm surprised.
It sounds to me that you would definitely benefit from the GIAC flash.
GIAC incorporates the good things from the pre 29.2 and then also incorporates all of the good things with the newer files.
It really is the best of both worlds.

Originally Posted by marconi118

My 2 335i

#1 E92 build 05/07 MSD80 pre 29.2 never updated but new turbos, no lag goes like a hell

#2 E93 build 07/07 MSD80 pre 29.2 new turbos, updated to 32.1, turbo retrofit activated: the wastegates are closed at idle (i checked) but suspect they are open at cruise, there is lag, car feels slow.

so Yes I vould be more than happy to revert the car #2 to pre 29.2 using the program of car #1

YES I know that the file has to be modified according to the VIN, that is exactly what I am askinf for:
take the file from car #1 modify it according to VIN of car #2 and then flash car #2

[Mr. 5]

Originally Posted by blisstik

Let's say you have the 39.2 or whichever primes the fuel pump upon unlocking the door, does GIAC incorporate all these new features and just applies the boost/timing logic from 25.2?

The priming of the fuel pump was just an example. How about any fixes they apply to the radio or any other system in the car.

Yes, all of the newer features like you described will be kept.
GIAC uses each BMW flash as a baseline for each GIAC flash. The code is there but needs to be applied to each new flash.
Obviously, GIAC doesn't mess with the radio or anything of the sort so whatever you get from BMW will be the same unless it has to do with boost/timing/etc.

[marconi118]

Originally Posted by Mr. 5

I'm not disagreeing with you but are you 100% sure that they are closed?

Mr.5 you are the boss

I will check again on car #2 if the wastegates are closed at warm engine after 5 min idle. But maybe because I am MSD80 euro specs....


Yes I agree the best would be a giac flash on car #2 but actually I would GIAC flash the car #1, car #2 is a vert, don't need such a power.

I would only revert car #2 to pre 29.2

[blisstik]

Do you know which DME version does the E93 have? I have read that the newest software 2.39.x is almost as good as the pre 29.2 in the huge sticky thread here.

I would definitely try to get updated to the latest DME and if that's not enough, stage 1 would take the laziness out of your E93.

There's no way BMW will flash you to an older version.

Check this out:
http://www.bmwtis.com/tsb/attachment...ata_Status.pdf

Originally Posted by marconi118

The 32.1 E93 is lazy, wakes up after 2000rpm, need more gas pedal travel. It seems there is an elastic between the pedal and the engine.

[marconi118]

Originally Posted by blisstik

Do you know which DME version does the E93 have? I have read that the newest software 2.39.x is almost as good as the pre 29.2 in the huge sticky thread here.

I would definitely try to get updated to the latest DME and if that's not enough, stage 1 would take the laziness out of your E93.

There's no way BMW will flash you to an older version.

Check this out:
http://www.bmwtis.com/tsb/attachment...ata_Status.pdf

I think my E93 should have 33 or 34
Yes dealer will never go back to pre 29.2, that is why I ask to GIAC or any other flash tuner to do this.
It is possible and would interest some of us in the N54 community.

BTW as someone found how to read the MSD80 program version without going to the dealer?