[E90Boy]

I've searched and did not find any info on the theory of the PROcede being able to fool BMW dealerships and not void the warranty. I would like to know if anyone has tried going in for service after taking out the PROcede. Reason is my brother is ordering his e92 and is very interested in getting the PROcede.

[RiXst3r]

put on your flame suit, people hate warranty threads

[Jeeves915]

It's simple.
Remove the procede before going in for service. 15-20 min work both ways, and almost no worries on the warranty. (not sure what the ECU logs...so...)

-Adam

[The Cleaner]

When the tuners start to warranty their products themselves is when you start using them prior to Factory Warranty expiring. First red flag for any product is the manufacturer will not take responsibility if it fails.

[DrM]

Originally Posted by E90Boy

I've searched and did not find any info on the theory of the PROcede being able to fool BMW dealerships and not void the warranty. I would like to know if anyone has tried going in for service after taking out the PROcede. Reason is my brother is ordering his e92 and is very interested in getting the PROcede.

E90Boy, do a search for the term warranty. This has been discussed several times in the past month. There were a couple of really long threads about it. I am surprised that you missed them. The short version is that one person admitted going to the dealer with it installed with no ill effects. The general advice was to remove it.

[E90Boy]

Originally Posted by DrM

E90Boy, do a search for the term warranty. This has been discussed several times in the past month. There were a couple of really long threads about it. I am surprised that you missed them. The short version is that one person admitted going to the dealer with it installed with no ill effects. The general advice was to remove it.

Maybe I asked the question the wrong way. All I wanted to know is if the current PROcede owners have any problems with the dealership after uninstalling it for service.

[bnj]

Originally Posted by E90Boy

Maybe I asked the question the wrong way. All I wanted to know is if the current PROcede owners have any problems with the dealership after uninstalling it for service.

Yes, the engine feels tired and you can be late from the service appointment time. That's why uninstalling is not recommended.

[DrM]

Originally Posted by E90Boy

Maybe I asked the question the wrong way. All I wanted to know is if the current PROcede owners have any problems with the dealership after uninstalling it for service.

OHHHH. Got it I misunderstood your question. I would be curious to know the answer to your question as well I am sure that this forum will be among the first to know.

The speculation was that the dealer will be able to detect that the ECU lost power. However, you could always claim that the battery went dead. Just because the ECU lost power shouldn't give them any reason to do digging unless they already had suspicions.

[turbo3]

I talked to the BMW Master Tech at my dealership who has become a buddy of mine. He told me that "off the record", the ecu does have data logging features (not constant dynamic real time) that are essentially snaphots of current running conditions. These snapshots are also triggered by out of spec measured engine parameters not current ecu settings. Examples would be out of spec boost, out of spec timing, out of spec air/fuel ratio, out of spec emissions which he says are all logged by the ecu.

So, he said that even if the unit is uninstalled, it can still be detected that the engine operating parmeters were modified. If the engine has a problem and it is determined that engine operating parameters were altered/manipulated during the time of the engine/components problem or altered prior to the engine/components problem ... then the warranty on the engine/components and the ecu would be disqualified on the car. He said that it is not a "local dealer" decision as the newer diagnostic equipment that he uses also communicates with BMW NA Tech Center as well.

It is not a Procede specific.

He told me "If you want more rwhp and tq ... buy an M5 and don't mess with that either"

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by turbo3

I talked to the BMW Master Tech at my dealership who has become a buddy of mine. He told me that "off the record", the ecu does have data logging features (not constant dynamic real time) that are essentially snaphots of current running conditions. These snapshots are also triggered by out of spec measured engine parameters not current ecu settings. Examples would be out of spec boost, out of spec timing, out of spec air/fuel ratio, out of spec emissions which he says are all logged by the ecu.

So, he said that even if the unit is uninstalled, it can still be detected that the engine operating parmeters were modified. If the engine has a problem and it is determined that engine operating parameters were altered/manipulated during the time of the engine/components problem or altered prior to the engine/components problem ... then the warranty on the engine/components and the ecu would be disqualified on the car. He said that it is not a "local dealer" decision as the newer diagnostic equipment that he uses also communicates with BMW NA Tech Center as well.

It is not a Procede specific.

He told me "If you want more rwhp and tq ... buy an M5 and don't mess with that either"

Shiv?

[BoostedBMW]

Shiv has posted several times in a few threads that with the PROcede installed as far as the ECU knows there is nothing going on outside of its normal range, and therefore it won't log anything outside of what a stock 335 would. I'm sure Shiv will chime in here though and give you a much better explenation then I could.

[andrew20195]

Originally Posted by turbo3

These snapshots are also triggered by out of spec measured engine parameters not current ecu settings. Examples would be out of spec boost, out of spec timing, out of spec air/fuel ratio, out of spec emissions which he says are all logged by the ecu.

So, he said that even if the unit is uninstalled, it can still be detected that the engine operating parmeters were modified.

The Procede (like any other "interceptor" type computer) sits in between the vehicles sensors and the ECU, and modifies sensor inputs and ECU outputs to change the actual operating conditions of the engine. The ECU sees normal operating conditions, as the inputs are being screened by the Procede, so there should be no abnormal measurements to record.

[sstarch1]

Right,

The ECU doesnt record abnormal parameters because it doesnt sense any abnormal parameters.

The procede increases boost throughout the RPM range, BUT the ECU doesnt see the increase in boost b/c the Procede send the ECU the data that is within normal operating conditions...

Think of the Procede as an active filter of sorts between the mechanical operation of the engine and the computer that controls it.

[CoralRedPlz]

Originally Posted by turbo3

I talked to the BMW Master Tech at my dealership who has become a buddy of mine. He told me that "off the record", the ecu does have data logging features (not constant dynamic real time) that are essentially snaphots of current running conditions. These snapshots are also triggered by out of spec measured engine parameters not current ecu settings. Examples would be out of spec boost, out of spec timing, out of spec air/fuel ratio, out of spec emissions which he says are all logged by the ecu.

So, he said that even if the unit is uninstalled, it can still be detected that the engine operating parmeters were modified. If the engine has a problem and it is determined that engine operating parameters were altered/manipulated during the time of the engine/components problem or altered prior to the engine/components problem ... then the warranty on the engine/components and the ecu would be disqualified on the car. He said that it is not a "local dealer" decision as the newer diagnostic equipment that he uses also communicates with BMW NA Tech Center as well.

It is not a Procede specific.

He told me "If you want more rwhp and tq ... buy an M5 and don't mess with that either"

since this is the first we have heard of it, id say the chances of this being the case are very low.

[DrDomer]

What he said

[bimport]

Originally Posted by turbo3

I talked to the BMW Master Tech at my dealership who has become a buddy of mine. He told me that "off the record", the ecu does have data logging features (not constant dynamic real time) that are essentially snaphots of current running conditions. These snapshots are also triggered by out of spec measured engine parameters not current ecu settings. Examples would be out of spec boost, out of spec timing, out of spec air/fuel ratio, out of spec emissions which he says are all logged by the ecu.

So, he said that even if the unit is uninstalled, it can still be detected that the engine operating parmeters were modified. If the engine has a problem and it is determined that engine operating parameters were altered/manipulated during the time of the engine/components problem or altered prior to the engine/components problem ... then the warranty on the engine/components and the ecu would be disqualified on the car. He said that it is not a "local dealer" decision as the newer diagnostic equipment that he uses also communicates with BMW NA Tech Center as well.

It is not a Procede specific.

He told me "If you want more rwhp and tq ... buy an M5 and don't mess with that either"

While I am sure Shiv's knowledge of the ecu and any data logging that is done far surpasses that of BMW. Just remember that Shiv does not offer any warranty. Believing that BMW can not and will not void your warranty when you modify your ecu is just plain ignorant.

A lot of people on this board seem to think that Shiv is doing everyone a favor, and should therefore not be questioned. Shiv is running a business; he is here to sell a product. You can believe everything he says, but if you are faced with your warranty being denied, Shiv is not going to bail you out.

[BoostedBMW]

^ If that is how the potential customer feels, then DON'T modify your car... end of story.

[CoralRedPlz]

nor should he. he offers a product and tells us the safest and most effective way to use it. he also says that if u want a 100% guarantee that your warrantee wont be voided, than you shouldnt install the procede.

[WilyB]

Hi Bimport. Not so long ago you were impersonating CEA3 service adviser. Are you now impersonating a spokesperson from BMW AG?

If so, many members here have questions about oil coolers…

[Juggs]

you would be an absolute fool to think that BMW cant detect that the engine/ecu was at one time modified. Safest bet is you only mod your car if you understand that any ill effects caused by the mod you will pay from your pocket. otherwise - dont mod!


but on a flip side, from general understanding, the car is still pretty reliable even with procede installed, so you shouldnt have any problems.


my question is this - with those of you who have leased cars, will it affect your trade in value when you turn it in? Does the dealership even care if the car is still in good working order if you had modded it at one time? I wouldnt think so, but still its a question i havent seen asked

[mesier1111]

Originally Posted by bimport

While I am sure Shiv's knowledge of the ecu and any data logging that is done far surpasses that of BMW. Just remember that Shiv does not offer any warranty. Believing that BMW can not and will not void your warranty when you modify your ecu is just plain ignorant.

A lot of people on this board seem to think that Shiv is doing everyone a favor, and should therefore not be questioned. Shiv is running a business; he is here to sell a product. You can believe everything he says, but if you are faced with your warranty being denied, Shiv is not going to bail you out.

At least Shiv stands behind his product and doesn't hide a problem when/if it shits itself. Be nice if BMW did that (aka acknowledge and recall failed fuel pumps on STOCK cars; acknowledge lack of oil coolers LISTED IN THE DELIVERY PAPERS and make us whole)

[CoralRedPlz]

Originally Posted by Juggs

you would be an absolute fool to think that BMW cant detect that the engine/ecu was at one time modified. Safest bet is you only mod your car if you understand that any ill effects caused by the mod you will pay from your pocket. otherwise - dont mod!

i guess there is alot of fools hanging around this forum.

i love how people assume that since its bmw, they have some kind of super-secret-all-knowing-computer that can prove that there were any mods to the ECU.
they forget the fact that there are computers and well trained experts (like shiv) that can inspect and test these facts and give us an answer that is correct.

that answer is no, bmw does not currently have any type of software that can detect a procede that has been uninstalled.

its like those people who always assume that the USA is doing the right thing, bc 'we are the greatest country in the world'.

all logic and reason seems to fly out the window in some of these threads.