[antonio335]

No one has used Pentosin 5w-40 in 335i. Is a good oil??
The price in the market is $9.50 the quart. The people said me
this is the first oil in the engine of the car when come from Germany.

[Turkeybaster115]

Originally Posted by antonio335

No one has used Pentosin 5w-40 in 335i. Is a good oil??
The price in the market is $9.50 the quart. The people said me
this is the first oil in the engine of the car when come from Germany.

I bought pentosin 5W-30, and will use it in my next oil change. Its doing fine in my FSI audi right now.

[tscdennab]

Originally Posted by TrackRat

FYI- If it's not BMW LL-01 approved it's not appropriate for your engine and voids your engine warranty.

Or LL-04.

[vasillalov]

Listen to TrackRat! The man knows oils...

[Turkeybaster115]

Originally Posted by vasillalov

Listen to TrackRat! The man knows oils...

Not really, he just regurgitates dealership talk.

[Turkeybaster115]

Originally Posted by tscdennab

Or LL-04.

Me and Mr.5 have extensively used LL-04, out of warranty, with no issues whatsoever in the good 'ole USA.

[Iwantm3]

what's with the headaches ? Why not just buy castrol and that's it ?

[acdHQK713K]

Originally Posted by TrackRat

Show us the BMW LL-01 and LL-04 test data from YOUR actual engine. If you don't have this data then you know absolutely nothing about how the oils are performing in your engine. You are just spouting your baseless opinion, as you've done over and over in most of the forum oil threads.

Do you still use Tea Leaves and MSDS sheets to determine what oil is best?

BTW, I really don't care what oil people use as long as they know the facts and why they should use LL-01 oil in U.S. gas engines. BMW states in writing that use of LL-04 oil in U.S. driven gas engines will violate your engine warranty and should not be used. There is a letter from BMW online here if people search for it.

Well here ya go: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...ht=mobil+5w-40
Anecdotal information, but data nonetheless.

I have been using the same stuff without issue. I have yet to read anywhere on these forums of people having trouble with warranty secondary to non-approved oil use. I would much rather put non-approved oil in my car and change it every 5k miles than use LL-01 and change it every 15k miles. I have no data to support those feelings; it just seems right.

[vasillalov]

Stangorang,

I fell for the exact same thing years ago. BlackstoneLabs only analyzes the current condition of the oil. It DOES NOT AND CANNOT give you data of how well it is protecting your engine. To do this, you need to actually dismantle the engine and examine the condition with microscope. Thats the type of testing that car manufacturers do before a type of lubricant is recommended for a specific engine.

EDIT:
If you really want to go for a 5W-40 type of oil, I recommend trying Valvoline SynPower 5W-40. It recently got BMW LL-01 approval (it was pending last year). I've used it in my previous car because it met the VW 501.00 specs and the results were impressive.

Here is the data sheet for the curious: http://valvoline.com/pdf/SynPower.pdf

I forgot to add: The reason why I like Valvoline 5W-40 is because it has one of the highest Total Base Numbers (TBN) out there. Its TBN is 11 and most oils come in the 6-9 range. Basically, the higher the TBN, the more acid-fighting power the oil has. Acidity is naturally occurring from the blow-by gases that inevitably get mixed with oil.

[acdHQK713K]

Originally Posted by vasillalov

Stangorang,

I fell for the exact same thing years ago. BlackstoneLabs only analyzes the current condition of the oil. It DOES NOT AND CANNOT give you data of how well it is protecting your engine. To do this, you need to actually dismantle the engine and examine the condition with microscope. Thats the type of testing that car manufacturers do before a type of lubricant is recommended for a specific engine.

I don't doubt that it has limitations. But this concern of excess wear and warranty revocation so far is completely unfounded.

Until I see something on the contrary I have no reservations with my oil choices.

[vasillalov]

Originally Posted by Stangorang

But this concern of excess wear and warranty revocation so far is completely unfounded.

That's the thing though.... Because the Blackstone reports say nothing about the engine wear, you have absolutely no idea how well it is protecting your engine. You are just guessing (as would anyone looking at a report from Blackstone Labs). If you use a BMW LL-01 oil you know that the manufacturer (BMW) has tested this oil and they know the levels of wear it produces.

Basically, from the end N54-user perspective the oil selection process should go in the following steps:

1. Select oil that meets the BMW LL-01 spec. This is the single most important factor. It guarantees that the engine wear will with those types of oil will not exceed manufacturers specs.

2. Perform oil analysis from spent oil to determine optima drain interval. This come second because you want to make sure you change the oil early enough to where it has not degraded to mush, but not too soon to where you are wasting your money.

[acdHQK713K]

Originally Posted by vasillalov

Stangorang,


EDIT:
If you really want to go for a 5W-40 type of oil, I recommend trying Valvoline SynPower 5W-40. It recently got BMW LL-01 approval (it was pending last year). I've used it in my previous car because it met the VW 501.00 specs and the results were impressive.

Here is the data sheet for the curious: http://valvoline.com/pdf/SynPower.pdf

I forgot to add: The reason why I like Valvoline 5W-40 is because it has one of the highest Total Base Numbers (TBN) out there. Its TBN is 11 and most oils come in the 6-9 range. Basically, the higher the TBN, the more acid-fighting power the oil has. Acidity is naturally occurring from the blow-by gases that inevitably get mixed with oil.

Thanks for the info. I will give that stuff a run next oil change.

[vasillalov]

As a side note, here is another option:

It appears that Mobil1 has changed their formulation for their 0W-40 oil:

http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lub...l_1_0W-40.aspx

It currently has TBN value of 11.8 (the highest I've seen) and it is also BMW LL-01

In my previous car, I had some really bad experience with Mobil1 0W-40 though. It seemed that the grade range was too big and the oil degraded rather quickly. The new formulation would probably be better though.


EDIT:

When my warranty runs out, I plan on running Mobil1 0W-40 in the winter and Valvoline 5W-40 in the summer

[timmahh]

"The starting TBNs of LL-04 oils are generally lower than for LL-01 oils. Sulfur in gasoline is a big cause of TBN depletion. Low TBN with ethanol laden gasoline further increases the chance of engine corrosion. I think that BMW does not think LL-04 oils in general can hold up in all states in the U.S. for their recommended OCIs/time intervals at a high enough frequency. MB has recently changed back to a higher TBN oil specification (229.5) in the U.S. and their reason was they found unsatisfactory engine protection with MB 229.51 spec oils here and said it was due to the ethanol in gasoline. "


http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...Number=1746122

[JayKay335i]

Sounds like a suppository

[acdHQK713K]

Originally Posted by TrackRat

Anecdotal is fine but it don't mean jack. That's why BMW and other Euro car makers actually test oils and specify which oils are REQUIRED to protect your engine and warranty. Unfortunately none of your beliefs are supported by objective BMW engine oil test data, aka LL-01 and LL-04 oil sequence testing.

You can use whatever oil makes you happy. I want people to know the facts and not be duped by baseless opinions when oil info. right from BMW dictates what oils must be used to protect your warranty and engine. BMW even went so far as to publish a letter stating the LL-04 oils were not acceptable for use in U.S. gas engines. BMW does have the data to support their oil requirements because they actually use objective scientific testing to determine what oil is required.

BTW, a UOA does NOT tell you how the oil performs in your engine. A UOA tells you the condition of the oil and what contaminants are present - not how it lubricates, . This has all been covered over and over in numerous oil threads. A UOA is not intended for and can not tell you how the oil performs in your engine. That is precisely what the LL-01 oil sequence test is for and precisely why you should be using a BMW LL-01 approved oil.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/cms/in...onth&Itemid=78

That is all well and fine. I have read those multipage threads about the n54 engine in the past. I know you will battle me to the bitter end on this one so let me just ask you two simple questions.

BMW also suggests 15k mile oil change intervals. Is that what you suggest as well?

Warranty issues aside, are you saying there are no non-LL01 oils out there that will perform/protect as well or better than the LL01 approved oils?

[acdHQK713K]

Originally Posted by TrackRat

BMW and other Euro car makers have used 15K OCIs in Europe for years without issue. BMW is so confident in these OCIs that they warranty your engine and will repair or replace it due to any oil related issues if you use the proper BMW approved LL-01 oils. BMW is putting their money where their mouth is because they have the test data to prove that up to 15K OCIs are just fine.

Neither you nor anyone else knows if some non BMW approved oil is as good or better than the approved BMW LL-01 oils for BMW engines operated in the U.S., without conducting the comprehensive LL-01 oil sequence testing. I personally, as have numerous other enthusiasts, have requested many times that all of the boutique oil purveys including but not limited to Amsoil, Redline, Royal Purple, etc. submit their oils to BMW for LL-01 testing. If their oils pass the LL-01 tests they will certainly increase sales. Until they have their products tested and certified - if they will actually pass, it's all smoke and mirros for the technically challenged enthusiast. I have had several boutique oil purveyors reluctantly admit their oils will not meet the BMW LL-01 specs. The boutique oil purveyors need to put their money where their mouth is as BMW has.

I would venture a guess and say those 15k changes have something to do with cost savings for BMW and their maintenance programs.

I understand you are stating exactly what the manual says, but as you have said, there is no proof that other brands don't offer the same protection.

What is the cost to an oil manufacturer to have their oil tested for LL-01 approval?

[Turkeybaster115]

Originally Posted by TrackRat

Show us the BMW LL-01 and LL-04 test data from YOUR actual engine. If you don't have this data then you know absolutely nothing about how the oils are performing in your engine. You are just spouting your baseless opinion, as you've done over and over in most of the forum oil threads.

Do you still use Tea Leaves and MSDS sheets to determine what oil is best?

BTW, I really don't care what oil people use as long as they know the facts and why they should use LL-01 oil in U.S. gas engines. BMW states in writing that use of LL-04 oil in U.S. driven gas engines will violate your engine warranty and should not be used. There is a letter from BMW online here if people search for it.

First of all Pentosin oil IS LL01. READ the product label, not some junk posted on the BMW/Stealership website. I don't need data, to use oil. I'm 80,000+ miles strong, and have log over 20,000 miles on Total Ineo MC3 LL04, without ANY ISSUES whatsoever. Oh except the fact that it was priced WAY less than what the stealership wants for "LL01"

As for your Jab at tea leaves, you still never answered my question about why BMW put specific oil part numbers on each model? You assume you can use the oil for an N52, in the N54, even when the base oil composition for each is radically different based on some imaginary test? BMW doesn't.

[Turkeybaster115]

Originally Posted by vasillalov

Stangorang,

I fell for the exact same thing years ago. BlackstoneLabs only analyzes the current condition of the oil. It DOES NOT AND CANNOT give you data of how well it is protecting your engine. To do this, you need to actually dismantle the engine and examine the condition with microscope. Thats the type of testing that car manufacturers do before a type of lubricant is recommended for a specific engine.

EDIT:
If you really want to go for a 5W-40 type of oil, I recommend trying Valvoline SynPower 5W-40. It recently got BMW LL-01 approval (it was pending last year). I've used it in my previous car because it met the VW 501.00 specs and the results were impressive.

Here is the data sheet for the curious: http://valvoline.com/pdf/SynPower.pdf

I forgot to add: The reason why I like Valvoline 5W-40 is because it has one of the highest Total Base Numbers (TBN) out there. Its TBN is 11 and most oils come in the 6-9 range. Basically, the higher the TBN, the more acid-fighting power the oil has. Acidity is naturally occurring from the blow-by gases that inevitably get mixed with oil.

Guy, plenty of guys on the E46fanatics forum have used quality synthetics that weren't "LL01" approved, without ANY issues whatsoever.

[acdHQK713K]

Originally Posted by TrackRat

So once again you demonstrate that you have ZERO technical data to support your baseless beliefs. Denial isn't going to make your baseless beliefs true nor are Tea Leaves nor MSDS sheets.

To the same effect, neither do you.

The warranty issue, I understand. Yet when oil questions come up you consistently regurgitate what BMW states and claim LL-01 oils provide better protection without posting any hard data. Show me that the LL-01 oils are better than non-LL01 oils in the same viscosity in terms of protection. You simply can't. The best you can do is spew what BMW publishes.

I believe in evidence based recommendations. Because BMW tested it does not mean it is any better than the ones they didn't. Quite frankly, BMW testing procedures are suspect at times. You would think they could get a HPFP right....
At this point your opinion is no better than the rest.

[acdHQK713K]

Originally Posted by TrackRat

Nice try but it won't work. You can't refute the fact that BMW REQUIRES LL-01 oil for U.S. gas engines based on their actually testing. This is fact. You have NO LL-01 test data what so ever to support your beliefs on non approved oils. That is why I constantly ask the boutique guys to submit their oils for testing yet they refuse.

As I have said before, as long as people know the FACTS, they can pour whatever pain they desire in their engine.

I am not invalidating the fact that BMW says the n54 needs LL-01. Although I have yet to hear an n54 owner losing their warranty over oil concerns, I 100% agree with you that if you are at all concerned about your warranty use what BMW says to use.

I am disputing your current and past statements about better protection than non-approved oils. If it was not tested you can make no statements about its protection capabilities when compared to the current list of LL-01 approved oils.

That M1 0w-40 provides better protection than RP, Amsoil, Redline, etc in the n54 engine is not a fact.

On a side note, has BMW rejected any oils when testing them? I would love to see that list, if such a list exists.

[acdHQK713K]

Originally Posted by TrackRat

I've never said LL-01 oils provide better protection than non approved oils. I have said we don't know if any of the non approved oils meet the LL-01 specs until they have been independently tested. I have also pointed out that in the U.S. LL-01 approved oils are required in BMW gas engines and that LL-04 oils are not acceptable and can void the warranty as BMW has stated in writing. That document has been posted in these forums.

This is why I routinely ask the boutique oil companies to have their oils tested - which they refuse to do.

Quotes from you:
"Amsoil might be OK for your lawn mower"

"Your OM will tell you exactly what oil must be used to maintain your warranty and more importantly - provide the proper lubrication for your BMW engine. Read and follow you OM to protect your engine and warranty.
"

"Apparently in BMW's testing LL-01 approved oils protect the engine better when high sulfur fuels are used."

"Until the boutique oil purveyors have their oils tested by BMW and approved - if they pass, they should not be used as they will void the engine warranty and can cause increased engine wear or serious damage"

"Until they receive BMW approval the boutique oils should not be used in BMW engines as they will void the engine warranty. If you don't care about your engine warranty or engine wear"

I am not going to go searching through all your posts. You consistently insinuate that LL-01 oils are the only oils capable of protecting this engine. Without data it's another opinion among many.

Where is the list of rejected oils?