[Ferruccio]

I know I want to get some sort of variable speed random orbit sander for the polishing stage of detailing the paint. My car's black, so I figure it's a great opportunity to learn how to properly remove swirl marks and wax. However, there are a myriad of kits out there that I've seen. I'm just starting out, and don't want to start throwing tons of money into crazily specialized products before I even know what it's like. Most lists I've seen tend to list a hundred different possibilities, without any nice beginner's list.

I'm debating between one of these kits. What do you think? Is the included polisher worth it, or should I just get the 7424?

http://www.amazon.com/review/R4O27R0...#R4O27R081PW8N

http://www.amazon.com/Griots-Garage-...6707358&sr=8-1

Remember: I'm not trying to get a concours-level finish here. I just want to *greatly* reduce the amount of swirl marks on the car. If I can eliminate them all, that would be great, too!

[MKR_DmD]

I feel you about the money. To buy everything I needed, it cost about $300, but i looked at it this way, a pro wanted $350-$400 to do the work, so I saved money. It takes a long time, you will be sore the next day, but the results are outstanding. I love the way my car looks.

Check out my thread, I have majority of the stuff that I bought. I personally wouldn't go cheap. Buy quality products and polisher. The results are only as good as the products you use.

[Ridonculous]

I haven't tried the Griot's buffer, but I've heard decent things about their products and car care system. When I started out, I bought myself the PC, which most would agree is the best choice for any beginner that wants to learn the proper way to polish a car.

You can get professional restults with the PC, it just takes more time and patience, but it is definitely much more safer than using a rotary.

Here are a couple of PC with Meguiar's options that are within your price range at Detailed Image. Plus, I belive there is a 10% off code in the forum - just look for any posts made by Greg.

PC Option 1

PC Option 2

Do more digging around in the forum and you'll find a lot more information to help you make your decision. Good luck!

[Detailers Domain]

Do you need everything from wash to wax plus the machine?

[Ferruccio]

Originally Posted by DetailersDomain

Do you need everything from wash to wax plus the machine?

I have some turtle wax, microfiber towels, and that's about it. Would that be sufficient for the wax portion?

I have some basic soap I found at Lowe's, a big jug of it. I don't have any methods of drying the car, other than the limited quantity of microfiber towels, which just cause swirl marks after limited usage. I also lack a decent 5 gallon bucket.

Thanks for the help, and for the links, guys. I'll consider these, as well.

[Detailers Domain]

Originally Posted by Ferruccio

I have some turtle wax, microfiber towels, and that's about it. Would that be sufficient for the wax portion?

I have some basic soap I found at Lowe's, a big jug of it. I don't have any methods of drying the car, other than the limited quantity of microfiber towels, which just cause swirl marks after limited usage. I also lack a decent 5 gallon bucket.

Thanks for the help, and for the links, guys. I'll consider these, as well.

I would consider picking this up.

http://detailersdomain.com/carcarepr...ntialsKit.html

Phil

[Ferruccio]

Originally Posted by DetailersDomain

I would consider picking this up.

http://detailersdomain.com/carcarepr...ntialsKit.html

Phil

Would that kit be enhanced if the polishes are used with the random orbital PC?

[tofu-]

i'd skip the pc and grab the flex

ideally, you'd want to learn how to use a rotary

[Detailers Domain]

yes a flex or pc would work well with that kit.

[Ferruccio]

Originally Posted by tofu-

i'd skip the pc and grab the flex

ideally, you'd want to learn how to use a rotary

That's the first I've heard that suggests using a rotary - everything else I've read says that random orbit sanders are the way to go.

This kit looks like exactly what I need, since I'm starting out with nothing, basically.

[tofu-]

Originally Posted by Ferruccio

That's the first I've heard that suggests using a rotary - everything else I've read says that random orbit sanders are the way to go.

This kit looks like exactly what I need, since I'm starting out with nothing, basically.

they aren't recommended because of the skill level required to use them

i can't do it myself without inducing a crap ton of buffer trails. i stick to my flex and leave the rotary to the pros. i worked with my friend's PC before purchasing the flex and it was such a pain in the ass (slow tedious work), especially if you're doing 3 step.

[MuttGrunt]

Things have changed with the emergence of Meg's 105, D300, Surbuf pads, and microfiber cutting pads. Stick with a small DA like the PC7424XP and you'll be good to go.

[Envious Eric]

I havent touched my rotary in over a year! I used to use it all the time for first of three steps, but since 105 and surbuf, there is no need for wool!

I use the griots now. I used to use the PC, I have an uncle who gets me a crazy good discount on the PC's too, but the GG machine is just that much better IMO. But I do leave the PC in the bag with a 4" pad for bumpers and tight spots so that I dont have to keep changing the backing plates on the GG machine!

oh and go with all menzerna, and meguiars 105 = great cut from the 105 step, then best finish with the menzerna following polishes!

[Ferruccio]

Originally Posted by Envious Eric

I havent touched my rotary in over a year! I used to use it all the time for first of three steps, but since 105 and surbuf, there is no need for wool!

I use the griots now. I used to use the PC, I have an uncle who gets me a crazy good discount on the PC's too, but the GG machine is just that much better IMO. But I do leave the PC in the bag with a 4" pad for bumpers and tight spots so that I dont have to keep changing the backing plates on the GG machine!

oh and go with all menzerna, and meguiars 105 = great cut from the 105 step, then best finish with the menzerna following polishes!

See, that's nice, but once I start looking at specific brand polishes to go with, we're back to the original problem I had at the beginning. I'd be redundant getting the Adam's essentials or related unified deals, so it's back to finding specific brands that work best, endlessly compiling a list of specific products from start to finish, with numerous disagreements on what constitutes a good car detailing kit.

I'm sure one of the Adam's combinations is just fine, and what is best for this price range is extremely subjective.

[digital01]

Jet black has one of the softest paint/clearcoats that I've ever worked on. It won't take much to just remove the average swirls. Don't buy a kit with "everything" in it. For around the same price, you can get better quality for each of the respective product types. Let me see if I can break this down for you, and any other beginners who just want a cut and dry version of what you need to start corrective detailing on your own:

What should I purchase for minor/moderate corrective detailing?

Minimum requirements: (Bold orange lettering is what you should purchase for the respective product type)

+ DA (Dual Action, AKA random orbital) Buffer
I recommend the Porter Cable 7424XP for beginners. This DA buffer is hands down the most popular one and there is a reason behind that. Its easy to use, forgiving, and decently priced for the build quality. It comes with an attachable handle, but I recommend using it without it and holding the head while buffing. This method made it a LOT easier to learn as a beginner, and its easier on the hands from vibration.


+ 5.5 inch Hook and Loop Backing Plate
Branding doesn't really matter much when you're a beginner, but I'd choose a known brand for quality issues. You will want a hook and loop style backing plate, which works almost like velcro.


+ 5.5 inch or 6 inch Buffing Pads
Starting out, I'd recommend Lake Country CCS pads. These can be found at most detailing websites, and are the most popular brand. At the minimum you will want orange, white, and black. Id suggest getting at least 6 pads to start off with (orange, white, green, black, blue, red). You can find 6 pack pick-any-pads specials on superiorcarcare.net for $35.


+ Polishing Compound(s)
Depending on how deep the scratches/swirls are that you are trying to correct, your step process can change. As a beginner, i'd start with either a 1 or 2 step process. For a 1 step, go with Menzerna PO85RD Microfinish Polish. This should take out most light surface swirls out of your clearcoat, especially on jet black.

If you're feeling a little more confident, i'd recommend a 2 step process which would correct your paint even further. Moderate scratches/swirls will require at least a 2 step. I recommend PO203 Power Finish by Menzerna as your first step and finish of with PO85RD. 3 step finishing is ideal, but it takes a lot more time and skill to do properly.


+ MF (Microfiber) Towels
At the minimum, you will want 3 towels for removing polish/sealant. This is one product that you do not want to skimp on. Using inferior quality/dirty MF towels can add just as many swirls/scratches to your paint as you just removed from buffing. Always wash your towels (in a separate load) with liquid detergent/soap prior to using. I'd recommend getting some microfiber washing detergent, as they are specially formulated to safely wash them without deteriorating the "micro" fibers. Hence the name "Microfiber" towel. Check Detailed Image, as they have quality MF towels for a good price.


+ Sealant (Wax and/or polymer sealant)
Now this is a product that is constantly debated over which is superior over which. Plain and simple, you WILL NEED some type of sealant after polishing. Once you have that mirror finish that you've been working so hard for, you need to protect your fresh clearcoat layer from the elements. In layman's terms: To increase longevity of your paint and minimize swirls/scratches, you will need to add a barrier in between your newly polished paint and the world. There are essentially two types of sealants that you can get, wax and polymer sealant. Wax will last about a month while polymer sealants can last around 3-6 months depending on application thickness, how much your car is exposed to the elements, and brand.

I recommend Blackfire Wet Diamond Polymer Sealant for beginners. It is very easy to apply, even easier to remove, and it lasts for months. If you want to take it a step further, you can apply a second coat after 24 hours or you can add wax (I recommend Chemical Guys XXX) on top of the sealant for maximum color depth.


Where can I get all of these products?

This questions is easy. Detailed Image. Although there are millions of places you can get these products individually, DI has all of the products mentioned above in one website. Since you seem to want simplicity, I'd recommend getting all of the products from them. Their prices are very competitive as well and I use them for purchasing my own detailing supplies.

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This forum is overflowing with information on how-to's and tips/pointers. As always, if you ever have any other questions just ask. We have some top notch detailers that post here daily (MuttGrunt, DetailersDomain, ScheerSpeed, Jean-Claude, and DetailAddict - just to name a few), so I'm quite confident that any questions that you may have along the way can be answered. Just remember to do your own research prior to asking questions, as many of the questions that I see on the forums are ones that have been asked countless times in the past.

Sorry for such a long post...sorta got carried away, lol. Anyhow, hope I answered your question.

[tomob63]

Digital01 - awesome information....
I just sold my M3 today for a Jet Black 335i.
I am very OCD and am very scared on how to maintain the black.
I've read a few posts that say just washing the car with a microfiber and ONR will scratch jet black. Someone's gotta tell me that's not true!