[Snkypete]

I've been going over the pros/cons of whether to purchase the JB4 or Cobb (both have their strengths/weaknesses and they've been beaten to death..) and decided the Cobb AP was the right choice for me and I had my dyno appointment this afternoon at EFI Logics in Bethel, CT.



Car is (was?) 100% stock, 50k miles, xDrive and AT...so clearly I didn't set any power records.

First pull was completely stock, car managed 247/267 (No A/F reading). After a sufficient cool down I wanted to confirm whether a drop-in K&N resulted in anything (yes, I know the benefits of a DCI but it isn't the route I wanted even if it would be a gain in hp). There's a lot of talk about the K&N but not actually documented - well the gain was absolutely nothing for power, just the benefit of reduced cost over the life of the car.

Next pull was the Cobb Stage1 Aggressive : 274/308 Progress, but the owner/tuner Chris felt he could make some slight changes to the tune and still keep the car safe. This car is my daily driver, not my toy, so I'll gladly leave a few hp on the table for reliability but I trust his knowledge completely.

Final Configuration, EFI Logics custom tune : 302/342 A nice gain over the Aggressive tune while keeping the A/F extremely safe. Just some simple tweaks based upon Chris' knowledge and experience made for a nice increase. And overall a very nice gain over stock for a car with zero mods besides this for now.



More importantly, the car drives substantially better from idle through the RPM range. The drive home has a decent amount of lights and driving like a human being it was still much more responsive. While it's not 600+rhwp, it was definitely more fun to drive. I am contemplating the next mod to be a FMIC based upon Chris' advice, but I don't think I'll push it to the point of getting an exhaust...maybe I am getting old after all.

Huge thanks to Chris and the guys at the shop for making the day enjoyable, informative, and for the smile on my face for the ride home.

[D335NUTZ]

very nice gains with the custom tune. need to see what Chris can squeeze out of a Stage 2+ tune on a FBO 335xi.

[will.c]

OP, I have the same dilemma. Can I ask what made you choose Cobb over JB4?

[Snkypete]

Originally Posted by wonho

OP, I have the same dilemma. Can I ask what made you choose Cobb over JB4?

For me, the benefit of being able to flash instead of adding a device was a positive. One thing I really liked about the JB4 was the reassignment of the gauges...if I really want that I can leave the AP in the vehicle but the reality is since it's a DD I won't use it, nor will I be changing maps on the fly. I'll never be adding a methanol kit. But for me probably the biggest deciding factor is if I ever need assistance with something, Chris has years of experience tuning with the AP, has an excellent relationship with Cobb and (as shown) can make changes if he feels necessary. I understand the basics of tuning, but I am not a tuner.

Everyone's reasons will be different, but for me having local support from a shop a trust 100% is priceless.

[Szemenyei]

Originally Posted by Wilazn

very nice gains with the custom tune. need to see what Chris can squeeze out of a Stage 2+ tune on a FBO 335xi.

A buddy of mine and myself have offered them the opportunity to a couple of times. Just I will probably end up waiting until the summer when work picks up again.

[ZTZ1010]

Originally Posted by Szemenyei

A buddy of mine and myself have offered them the opportunity to a couple of times. Just I will probably end up waiting until the summer when work picks up again.

+1. They'd rather pro-tune stock cars, apparently.

Before they got their cobb keys for custom tuning, they wanted nothing to do with any platform that wasn't Evo/Sti. Now they're trying to expand the platform because they can use COBB, yet have only protuned stock cars to post glory numbers. I went in there twice with my car (I'm local), and once with a friend's B8 S4 and anothers B5 S4 and they had no interest in even talking to us.

As long as you're happy with their work and the car, that's all that matters though.

[EFI Logics]

Zach,

I'm not too sure why you have been chasing after us in such a demeaning way. I've tried to be clear with you on Facebook in regards to our tuning philosophy, we are not trying to post "Glory" numbers up, we are simply putting up our results. We have never had the reputation to push things beyond their mechanical limits, period.

I have been told emailed about your involvement in the community from other owners, and I'll be honest, I like an honest challenge, but give us a chance. We have nothing to prove, we are a stable company with a solid reputation in everything we do. We have decided to open our doors to the Cobb BMW platform because we work closely with Cobb on all aspects of their software program. I personally purchased my 535 just start playing with the software before we started calibrating customer cars.

+1. They'd rather pro-tune stock cars, apparently.

Zach, I will gladly ProTune any BMW right now so long as it is within the ability of the software. We have booked a few Methanol Stage2+ cars already, but they will not be in until spring. I gladly invite you down to talk with me in person about your car, I'd have no problem with that, even throw your car on the dyno for some pulls if you want.

Before they got their cobb keys for custom tuning, they wanted nothing to do with any platform that wasn't Evo/Sti. Now they're trying to expand the platform because they can use COBB, yet have only protuned stock cars to post glory numbers. I went in there twice with my car (I'm local), and once with a friend's B8 S4 and anothers B5 S4 and they had no interest in even talking to us.

That is completely incorrect, we tune cars that we are comfortable with, and have experience with, Cobb or not. If you look on our dyno database, you will see that we have tuned plenty of cars outside of the Subaru/Mitsu market, but the cars need to be right, and we just won't take a car in for the sake of taking one in. Every time we get an Audi customer in here, we send it to SpeedSport tuning, as they are the Audi experts, we work with them, and they send us the import stuff that they aren't comfortable with. We feel this does the customer a huge service getting them to the right people for the job.

Anyways, we are going to be moving forward with this platform, both from a tuning perspective, and mechanical perspective. Joe, one of our techs, is a former Audi / BMW tech, so we are excited to tap into his abilities for this platform. From bolt-ons to service work, we are excited to start supporting a new platform at EFI, and we hope that our reputation will entice the consumer to at least check us out and get a feel of what we are all about.

Thanks,

Chris

[Snkypete]

Originally Posted by ZTZ1010

+1. They'd rather pro-tune stock cars, apparently.

Before they got their cobb keys for custom tuning, they wanted nothing to do with any platform that wasn't Evo/Sti. Now they're trying to expand the platform because they can use COBB, yet have only protuned stock cars to post glory numbers. I went in there twice with my car (I'm local), and once with a friend's B8 S4 and anothers B5 S4 and they had no interest in even talking to us.

As long as you're happy with their work and the car, that's all that matters though.

Actually Chris got his start tuning Mustangs along with Subaru's and over the years has become very familiar with the Cobb setup. Not sure how *I* offended you, but I find your comment a bit insulting - 302 is hardly anything but a 'glory number'...perhaps to you it is, but I am used to much higher numbers. Even 400whp is merely a daily driver.

They currently have a backlog of over two months for tuning - I was fortunate someone had to cancel and I was offered the spot so I jumped at the opportunity. Perhaps you misunderstood their lack of interest with being busy?

Considering they have tuned 100% modified cars listed above which make twice as much hp as the cars you listed, I'm not sure what it is you are attempting to imply. The only customers I have ever seen been turned away were due to not wanting to get involved in cars which appeared to be 'thrown together' (this is in the Mustang world where some guys will toss together some used parts and then blame the tuner - no matter who it is - when things don't work right).

I've personally seen these guys go completely out of their way for customers - and not people they know, just referrals from forums and people they have never met.

My car is stock by MY choice, not theirs. I'm not in my 20s (or 30s for that matter) and my goals are substantially different...not better, just different. I asked him to keep it extremely safe and if he could tweak it a bit to improve it so be it....so yes, I am very happy.

[ZTZ1010]

Originally Posted by EFI Logics

Zach,

I'm not too sure why you have been chasing after us in such a demeaning way. I've tried to be clear with you on Facebook in regards to our tuning philosophy, we are not trying to post "Glory" numbers up, we are simply putting up our results. We have never had the reputation to push things beyond their mechanical limits, period.

I have been told emailed about your involvement in the community from other owners, and I'll be honest, I like an honest challenge, but give us a chance. We have nothing to prove, we are a stable company with a solid reputation in everything we do. We have decided to open our doors to the Cobb BMW platform because we work closely with Cobb on all aspects of their software program. I personally purchased my 535 just start playing with the software before we started calibrating customer cars.



Zach, I will gladly ProTune any BMW right now so long as it is within the ability of the software. We have booked a few Methanol Stage2+ cars already, but they will not be in until spring. I gladly invite you down to talk with me in person about your car, I'd have no problem with that, even throw your car on the dyno for some pulls if you want.



That is completely incorrect, we tune cars that we are comfortable with, and have experience with, Cobb or not. If you look on our dyno database, you will see that we have tuned plenty of cars outside of the Subaru/Mitsu market, but the cars need to be right, and we just won't take a car in for the sake of taking one in. Every time we get an Audi customer in here, we send it to SpeedSport tuning, as they are the Audi experts, we work with them, and they send us the import stuff that they aren't comfortable with. We feel this does the customer a huge service getting them to the right people for the job.

Anyways, we are going to be moving forward with this platform, both from a tuning perspective, and mechanical perspective. Joe, one of our techs, is a former Audi / BMW tech, so we are excited to tap into his abilities for this platform. From bolt-ons to service work, we are excited to start supporting a new platform at EFI, and we hope that our reputation will entice the consumer to at least check us out and get a feel of what we are all about.

Thanks,

Chris

No desire to "chase after" you guys. That would be an utter waste of my time, and I have nothing to gain from that. It's not like I was trying to plug for another shop or publicly recommend someone else in place of EFI on your threads. Believe me, I'd like nothing more than to find a local trustworthy local shop who I'd allow to tune/work on my car. But so far, that hasn't happened on any of the occasions I had stopped in to discuss projects with you guys at EFI. I was legitimately excited when you guys opened up, until my first few visits and personal experience quickly nullified that excitement.

I came in a number of times and was treated like shit each time, and my friends and I truly felt it was because we didn't have Evos/STIs. I understand you guys have worked on other platforms, and I know plenty of other guys who swear by your work. I know a number of people who know you personally and swear by your tuning capabilities on those various platforms. But when we came in, you guys wanted NOTHING to do with the various cars we came in with, and it seemed like an inconvenience just to get someone to TALK to us each time. Most recently was in December with the modded B8 S4, so it's not like it was very long ago either. I was honestly just left with a sour taste in my mouth on four separate occasions, and that was before all of this came out about the N54.

Then, the first N54 dyno I saw posted showed a bone stock 135 putting down 342 at 16 pounds on a completely stock motor (that kids 135). Not even an intake at 16 pounds without bolt ons! I'm FBO/Meth and on 60/40 other tuners recommend 17ish pounds, if that. I'm just posting my questions in regards to why other tuners R&D has found those boost levels are not recommended/safe for the motor, but you guys proclaim that it is. I'm all for aggressive tuning, but as far as longevity and sustainability are concerned, other tuners have been in the scene for 4/5 years (working with this platform alone) and recommend drastically different tuning parameters. You've explained the AFR data, which I understand. But that has nothing to do with the specific capabilities of the stock turbos or other hardware which has been found insufficient to run that kind of power.

I'm quite involved in the local tuning scene, and we're always looking for shops to add to recommended our list. We have a group of 60-70 local BMW members who meet weekly and send quite a bit of business to shops that members have good experiences with. I was asked about EFI after the preliminary dynos, as members were curious as to why the numbers seemed so inconsistent with other tuners published results. I apologize if it seemed like an "attack", as that was never the intention. Unfortunately, EFI Fanboys took over the thread on facebook, and I wasn't going to go back and forth with kids who don't know anything about the tuning scene for these cars. My goal was to clarify the discrepancy, and to give my .02 to our group members who were curious about the shop and results.

[EFI Logics]

Originally Posted by ZTZ1010

No desire to "chase after" you guys. That would be an utter waste of my time, and I have nothing to gain from that. It's not like I was trying to plug for another shop or publicly recommend someone else in place of EFI on your threads. Believe me, I'd like nothing more than to find a local trustworthy local shop who I'd allow to tune/work on my car. But so far, that hasn't happened on any of the occasions I had stopped in to discuss projects with you guys at EFI......

Well, I'm truly sorry you were mistreated on your first visits here, it's not our way of doing business, and our reputation shows that. I never remember talking to you, or your friends, but I may have been on the dyno, so I apologize for being busy.

Regardless, we have a few dyno days setup, an Audi day specifically on March 3rd, I openly invite you (and your friends) back to the shop and talk to ME personally if you'd like, if not, I understand.

I want to address Josh's 135, as you seem to be really hung up on that car because of the levels of boost we were running. Josh's car simply a test car, we were CLOSELY monitoring that car while tuning it. I want to be very clear that we did not let the car leave at that level, it was a controlled test, one that Josh was open to letting us try. I've gone in detail on Facebook about our tuning philosophy, and we will continue to implement these changes in our maps. This last car the OP made is a good example of what cars should expect when done here. Obviously we would love to tune more cars that have FBO, Meth, etc, but many customers simply do not want to modify the vehicle anymore.

Again, I invite you to come back, but that's obviously up to your discretion, feel free to ask for me.

Thanks,
Chris

[ZTZ1010]

Chris,

While I appreciate the prompt response, my friends and I cannot justify sending business to a shop that treated us so poorly on multiple occasions. Just because EFI wishes to expand their platform development to the N54 does not excuse or justify the attitude or treatment we experienced, so I'm sorry if this was the result of other employees at your shop.

A reputable local shop has requested to pro-tune my car (for R/D purposes / working directly with my current tuner), and our group will be referring all N54/N55 projects to them based on experience. I'll gladly cease posting on your threads both here and on facebook.

[EFI Logics]

We wish you the best!

- Chris

[Snkypete]

Originally Posted by ZTZ1010

Chris,

While I appreciate the prompt response, my friends and I cannot justify sending business to a shop that treated us so poorly on multiple occasions. Just because EFI wishes to expand their platform development to the N54 does not excuse or justify the attitude or treatment we experienced, so I'm sorry if this was the result of other employees at your shop.

A reputable local shop has requested to pro-tune my car (free of charge for R/D purposes / working directly with my current tuner), and our group will be referring all N54/N55 projects to them based on experience. I'll gladly cease posting on your threads both here and on facebook.

So let me get this straight...

Another shop is providing you a tune (and dyno time) for free, but they can't tune it themselves and need to have someone at Cobb do it (saw your original post before you edited it).

You've come in here, and I guess elsewhere, to trash a competing company - who is essentially sponsoring you - because you had the perception of being 'treated poorly'? (yet didn't provide anything of substance to back it up or even who you spoke with??) I know two guys in the shop besides Chris - Jack and Pete. Jack doesn't say two words to anyone, he's a mechanic. He may talk to the cars, who knows. Pete at the desk (I don't know his title) is one of the nicest guys you'll ever meet. Always polite when I have called. I don't know the other employees but everyone said hello to me while I was waiting and offered me coffee or to wait in their lounge if I wanted to watch TV.

Can you say conflict of interest???? WOW.

And now you are given an offer to stop by and talk to the owner and you decline? Then why post in here in the first place other than an attempt to discredit the competitor of someone who is giving you something for FREE?

I didn't need 28 additional HP, I would have been happy with a canned tune. But thankfully Chris has the knowledge and experience to make changes which are safe and gave me a little extra power. Again I'm not setting any records with a 50k mile stock car. This car has to be reliable for me with mods that make sense.

[dfv2]

Just thought a 3rd party perspective might be useful here, zero affiliation with anyone outside of knowing of EFI from prior platforms and considering them for a protune...

EFI sounds like they are in the right on this one, this guy Zach sounds like a whiny kid. This industry can be SO sour for shop owners when it comes to overly-vocal kids with agendas.

Nice numbers on the 3, especially for a mustang dyno.

[ZTZ1010]

Originally Posted by Snkypete

So let me get this straight...

Another shop is providing you a tune (and dyno time) for free, but they can't tune it themselves and need to have someone at Cobb do it (saw your original post before you edited it).

You've come in here, and I guess elsewhere, to trash a competing company - who is essentially sponsoring you - because you had the perception of being 'treated poorly'? (yet didn't provide anything of substance to back it up or even who you spoke with??) I know two guys in the shop besides Chris - Jack and Pete. Jack doesn't say two words to anyone, he's a mechanic. He may talk to the cars, who knows. Pete at the desk (I don't know his title) is one of the nicest guys you'll ever meet. Always polite when I have called. I don't know the other employees but everyone said hello to me while I was waiting and offered me coffee or to wait in their lounge if I wanted to watch TV.

Can you say conflict of interest???? WOW.

And now you are given an offer to stop by and talk to the owner and you decline? Then why post in here in the first place other than an attempt to discredit the competitor of someone who is giving you something for FREE?

I didn't need 28 additional HP, I would have been happy with a canned tune. But thankfully Chris has the knowledge and experience to make changes which are safe and gave me a little extra power. Again I'm not setting any records with a 50k mile stock car. This car has to be reliable for me with mods that make sense.

for a 42 year old man you certainly cry like a 17 year old. I don't care about how well you've been treated; they wanted an N54 at that point. I don't owe you an explanation "of substance" in regards to how I was treated poorly. I'm sorry if you don't understand why I won't do use or recommend a shop who left me feeling like my business wasn't important to them, on seperate occasions with three different platforms . You also shouldn't speak on subjects about which you have no knowledge. The reference to the tuner at COBB was because I'm running meth and have a unique setup in regards to a project currently under development. Not once did I mention the NAME of the shop I was working with, as I'm not plugging for them, nor have I stated I was going to LET THEM use the car. I've not said a single negative thing about Chris or EFI, as my intention was never to put them down. I was simply reflecting upon my PERSONAL experiences (and those of my friends), and asking legitimate questions about the results of their tune. Considering you've been registered on this forum for all of ten days, I'm sure the fact that your first few posts are EFI plugs is purely coincidental. Shouldn't a grown man have more important things to do?

Originally Posted by dfv2

Just thought a 3rd party perspective might be useful here, zero affiliation with anyone outside of knowing of EFI from prior platforms and considering them for a protune...

EFI sounds like they are in the right on this one, this guy Zach sounds like a whiny kid. This industry can be SO sour for shop owners when it comes to overly-vocal kids with agendas.

Nice numbers on the 3, especially for a mustang dyno.

what's my agenda there, chief? Trying to understand something by asking questions regarding discrepancies between their tuning parameters and other tuners R&D? Protecting members of my group and my friends? You caught me.

And of course since you're familiar with them through other platforms and considering them for a pro-tune, you'd have no reason to disagree with me....

[Z3->WRX->335]

Why'd you go back the 4th time after "being treated like shit" the 3 previous times?

[ZTZ1010]

Originally Posted by Z3->WRX->335

Why'd you go back the 4th time after "being treated like shit" the 3 previous times?

A friend (EVO X Owner) told me it must have been a fluke and convinced me it was worth another try. Said they were always great with him, and their reputation in that community was strong. So we took the B8, and low and behold, same result.

[ExpensiveTaste]

Originally Posted by Snkypete

Blah,Blah...But thankfully Chris has the knowledge and experience to make changes which are safe and gave me a little extra power...Blah,Blah

Sorry, I didn't feel like quoting such a huge response. Snkypete, are you the same guy that had that red Cobra at one point (or still)?

Chris, I've heard nothing but good things about your shop and tuning even though there's a huge wait for work. I came by at one point for you to install my FMIC, but the wait was 6 months and I couldn't wait. Would you PLEASE tune my OBD I Mustang? You're sooo close to my house.

[Juiced46]

Originally Posted by ZTZ1010

. I've not said a single negative thing about Chris or EFI, as my intention was never to put them down.

Really, because from what I read everything you have said about Chris and EFI have been Negative.

Originally Posted by ZTZ1010

+1. They'd rather pro-tune stock cars, apparently.

Before they got their cobb keys for custom tuning, they wanted nothing to do with any platform that wasn't Evo/Sti. Now they're trying to expand the platform because they can use COBB, yet have only protuned stock cars to post glory numbers. I went in there twice with my car (I'm local), and once with a friend's B8 S4 and anothers B5 S4 and they had no interest in even talking to us.

As long as you're happy with their work and the car, that's all that matters though.

Originally Posted by ZTZ1010

No desire to "chase after" you guys. That would be an utter waste of my time, and I have nothing to gain from that. It's not like I was trying to plug for another shop or publicly recommend someone else in place of EFI on your threads. Believe me, I'd like nothing more than to find a local trustworthy local shop who I'd allow to tune/work on my car. But so far, that hasn't happened on any of the occasions I had stopped in to discuss projects with you guys at EFI. I was legitimately excited when you guys opened up, until my first few visits and personal experience quickly nullified that excitement.

I came in a number of times and was treated like shit each time, and my friends and I truly felt it was because we didn't have Evos/STIs. I understand you guys have worked on other platforms, and I know plenty of other guys who swear by your work. I know a number of people who know you personally and swear by your tuning capabilities on those various platforms. But when we came in, you guys wanted NOTHING to do with the various cars we came in with, and it seemed like an inconvenience just to get someone to TALK to us each time. Most recently was in December with the modded B8 S4, so it's not like it was very long ago either. I was honestly just left with a sour taste in my mouth on four separate occasions, and that was before all of this came out about the N54.

Then, the first N54 dyno I saw posted showed a bone stock 135 putting down 342 at 16 pounds on a completely stock motor (that kids 135). Not even an intake at 16 pounds without bolt ons! I'm FBO/Meth and on 60/40 other tuners recommend 17ish pounds, if that. I'm just posting my questions in regards to why other tuners R&D has found those boost levels are not recommended/safe for the motor, but you guys proclaim that it is. I'm all for aggressive tuning, but as far as longevity and sustainability are concerned, other tuners have been in the scene for 4/5 years (working with this platform alone) and recommend drastically different tuning parameters. You've explained the AFR data, which I understand. But that has nothing to do with the specific capabilities of the stock turbos or other hardware which has been found insufficient to run that kind of power.

I'm quite involved in the local tuning scene, and we're always looking for shops to add to recommended our list. We have a group of 60-70 local BMW members who meet weekly and send quite a bit of business to shops that members have good experiences with. I was asked about EFI after the preliminary dynos, as members were curious as to why the numbers seemed so inconsistent with other tuners published results. I apologize if it seemed like an "attack", as that was never the intention. Unfortunately, EFI Fanboys took over the thread on facebook, and I wasn't going to go back and forth with kids who don't know anything about the tuning scene for these cars. My goal was to clarify the discrepancy, and to give my .02 to our group members who were curious about the shop and results.

Originally Posted by ZTZ1010

Chris,

While I appreciate the prompt response, my friends and I cannot justify sending business to a shop that treated us so poorly on multiple occasions. Just because EFI wishes to expand their platform development to the N54 does not excuse or justify the attitude or treatment we experienced, so I'm sorry if this was the result of other employees at your shop.

A reputable local shop has requested to pro-tune my car (for R/D purposes / working directly with my current tuner), and our group will be referring all N54/N55 projects to them based on experience. I'll gladly cease posting on your threads both here and on facebook.

Looks to me by everything I read highlighted in bold is negative against EFI. Maybe I am reading it wrong? Saying they are just posting "Glory" numbers, they wanted nothing to do with you, and you questioning them about their ability to tune cars without knowing the full story. That all seems like negative talk to me, don't you agree?

It seems to me you are a little sour because perhaps maybe you wanted to be their test car for COBB and they did not chose you?

You go on to say you were treated like crap ALL 4 times you went in there. When did you specifically go there? Was it during a super busy dyno day or meet? Or was it just your average business day? Also who did you talk to? Was it the same person everytime? It seems like there is just more to this story then what you are saying here, or its all a load of BS and you are just trying to stir the pot. Its just funny that you mention what a horrible experience you had, they wanted nothing to do with you but Chris doesn't remember talking to you. Hmmm

Well back on topic, since it always seems people on this board have to stir the pot for no apparent reason. Obviously these posts were to bash EFI or you would have kept your mouth shut.

Nice #s Pete. I bet the car is a blast to drive, and very good for an XI with an Auto.

Anyone that is looking to have their car tuned by EFI, do it! I wouldn't go to another shop just because they may be cheaper, remember you get what you pay for. Is the few $$ you save worth the blown motor you may be getting from some hack "tooner"? Definitely not.

[Juiced46]

Ohh also, ZTZ1010101010101, what is the project you are currently under development with that makes it so unique? I'm curious..........seriously

[CT335xi]

Originally Posted by ZTZ1010

No desire to "chase after" you guys. That would be an utter waste of my time, and I have nothing to gain from that. It's not like I was trying to plug for another shop or publicly recommend someone else in place of EFI on your threads. Believe me, I'd like nothing more than to find a local trustworthy local shop who I'd allow to tune/work on my car. But so far, that hasn't happened on any of the occasions I had stopped in to discuss projects with you guys at EFI. I was legitimately excited when you guys opened up, until my first few visits and personal experience quickly nullified that excitement.

I came in a number of times and was treated like shit each time, and my friends and I truly felt it was because we didn't have Evos/STIs. I understand you guys have worked on other platforms, and I know plenty of other guys who swear by your work. I know a number of people who know you personally and swear by your tuning capabilities on those various platforms. But when we came in, you guys wanted NOTHING to do with the various cars we came in with, and it seemed like an inconvenience just to get someone to TALK to us each time. Most recently was in December with the modded B8 S4, so it's not like it was very long ago either. I was honestly just left with a sour taste in my mouth on four separate occasions, and that was before all of this came out about the N54.

Then, the first N54 dyno I saw posted showed a bone stock 135 putting down 342 at 16 pounds on a completely stock motor (that kids 135). Not even an intake at 16 pounds without bolt ons! I'm FBO/Meth and on 60/40 other tuners recommend 17ish pounds, if that. I'm just posting my questions in regards to why other tuners R&D has found those boost levels are not recommended/safe for the motor, but you guys proclaim that it is. I'm all for aggressive tuning, but as far as longevity and sustainability are concerned, other tuners have been in the scene for 4/5 years (working with this platform alone) and recommend drastically different tuning parameters. You've explained the AFR data, which I understand. But that has nothing to do with the specific capabilities of the stock turbos or other hardware which has been found insufficient to run that kind of power.

I'm quite involved in the local tuning scene, and we're always looking for shops to add to recommended our list. We have a group of 60-70 local BMW members who meet weekly and send quite a bit of business to shops that members have good experiences with. I was asked about EFI after the preliminary dynos, as members were curious as to why the numbers seemed so inconsistent with other tuners published results. I apologize if it seemed like an "attack", as that was never the intention. Unfortunately, EFI Fanboys took over the thread on facebook, and I wasn't going to go back and forth with kids who don't know anything about the tuning scene for these cars. My goal was to clarify the discrepancy, and to give my .02 to our group members who were curious about the shop and results.

I remember reading about that 135i too, my only question is why such a big difference in numbers from the 135i and the 335xi ? I know theres more lose with awd, but nearly 40 hp and 47 trq . I looked at the dyno sheet for the 135i it made 253 hp/ 267 trq baseline and then 313hp /354 trq on cobb stage 1 aggresssive 93 oct. The op 's 335xi made 247hp/267 trq for a baseline and then 274hp/308 trq on stage 1 aggressive 93 oct. So as you can see the baseline #'s were very comparable , but very different on the same cobb tune? Is there any reason for this? Maybe Chris from EFI can respond. I'm not trying to stir anything up just want to know why the tune was more effective on one car over the other even though they were both stock.

[Snkypete]

Originally Posted by ZTZ1010

for a 42 year old man you certainly cry like a 17 year old. I don't care about how well you've been treated; they wanted an N54 at that point. I don't owe you an explanation "of substance" in regards to how I was treated poorly.

What exactly am I crying about? If you are referring to calling you out on your unsubstantiated claims "crying" then I don't know what to tell you. You came in here, keyboard 'a blazin' (my thread I remind you) to criticize a shop but won't provide any facts....wow talk about a credibility issue.

Originally Posted by ZTZ1010

I'm sorry if you don't understand why I won't do use or recommend a shop who left me feeling like my business wasn't important to them, on seperate occasions with three different platforms . You also shouldn't speak on subjects about which you have no knowledge.

Oh I understand it completely - so does everyone else here. ShopX is essentially paying you so you're trying to give their competition a bad reputation without any supporting facts, names, dates, anything.....other than a busy shop wouldn't drop everything because you walked in. You shouldn't be bothering mechanics - you should have gone to the office and if Pete was there he would have pointed you in the right direction or asked you to come back another time. That kid doesn't have a mean part in his body.

Originally Posted by ZTZ1010

The reference to the tuner at COBB was because I'm running meth and have a unique setup in regards to a project currently under development. Not once did I mention the NAME of the shop I was working with, as I'm not plugging for them, nor have I stated I was going to LET THEM use the car. I've not said a single negative thing about Chris or EFI, as my intention was never to put them down. I was simply reflecting upon my PERSONAL experiences (and those of my friends), and asking legitimate questions about the results of their tune.

I guess someone else was posting as you then saying negative things about EFI and saying that ShopX was using their car for testing.

Originally Posted by ZTZ1010

Considering you've been registered on this forum for all of ten days, I'm sure the fact that your first few posts are EFI plugs is purely coincidental. Shouldn't a grown man have more important things to do?

Wow you got me....yep I should have joined here YEARS ago even though I never owned the car. Hey genius, why don't you look at my first post - I just bought the car...I got tired of a few weeks of having to type BMW backwards to search modifications so I actually signed up after swearing off forums because of people like you. I've been on forums probably longer than you have been alive so spare me the 'you're new here' crap...but thank you for reminding me why forums chase off all of the good knowledge in the automotive field. You MUST be an expert, you have a methanol kit....who installed it BTW? I'm sure it wasn't you....

And I have a lot of free time - part of being a successful adult. I've worked my ass off to accomplish what I have in life and I'm proud of it. It affords me free time to enjoy my hobbies.

Originally Posted by ZTZ1010

what's my agenda there, chief? Trying to understand something by asking questions regarding discrepancies between their tuning parameters and other tuners R&D? Protecting members of my group and my friends? You caught me.

Since you're the only one who doesn't see it, I'll type slowly. ShopX is giving you a tune and dyno time for free....well not really, your "payment" is to trash their competition on the Internet and apparently Facebook to drive business away from them. But yeah, I did catch you. How are you "protecting" your friends? By getting services for free and then referring them there so they end up paying for what you received? You're a great friend!

Originally Posted by ZTZ1010

And of course since you're familiar with them through other platforms and considering them for a pro-tune, you'd have no reason to disagree with me....

I didn't go to EFI for a pro-tune - why would I spend money on that for a stock car that will remain stock when I've stated repeatedly I'm not chasing numbers with this car? And for the record Chris did NOT tune my Mustang, nor was it tuned at EFI Logics. But nice try again genius. I wanted before/after dyno results because I like documenting things...I documented every single change I made on the Mustang when I ran a local dyno (have you ever operated a dyno - nevermind, I know the answer). I find it interesting just as I do write ups for all modifications. And read some of those reviews, I am brutally honest and call companies out when they're wrong....you know, like you're being called out here.

Originally Posted by ExpensiveTaste

Sorry, I didn't feel like quoting such a huge response. Snkypete, are you the same guy that had that red Cobra at one point (or still)?

Never had a red cobra - I do have a red GT with Saleen ground effects, not sure if that's the car you mean. We have a few red cobras which are highly modified in our club as well.

Originally Posted by ExpensiveTaste

Chris, I've heard nothing but good things about your shop and tuning even though there's a huge wait for work. I came by at one point for you to install my FMIC, but the wait was 6 months and I couldn't wait. Would you PLEASE tune my OBD I Mustang? You're sooo close to my house.

He stopped doing OBDI a long time ago. The only person I would trust with OBDI is Jon Lund in PA after I stopped organizing dyno events in the area and flying Jerry in.

Originally Posted by Z3->WRX->335

Why'd you go back the 4th time after "being treated like shit" the 3 previous times?

Hands down the most intelligent post in this thread....kudos to you.