[lovethebmw]

Ok..never done this before.

Few questions:

-Is it truly the best way to get a great price? If so, why doesn't everyone do it?

-Does every dealer have one?

-How soon before I'm ready to buy do I contact?

Thanks so much

[OC Guy]

It is a very good way to get a great price. Not many people know about it. In general, people go buy on impulse.

Every dealer? Not sure but the ones around here do.

You can contact them now, just keep your old emails.

[wj4]

Originally Posted by lovethebmw

Ok..never done this before.

Few questions:

-Is it truly the best way to get a great price? If so, why doesn't everyone do it?

-Does every dealer have one?

-How soon before I'm ready to buy do I contact?

Thanks so much

I always used www.kbb.com and find the dealerships I'm interested in. After you answer the questions, they will contact you.

I think this is the best way to buy a new car w/o the headache. They never try to play with me...just say "price is xxx over invoice and TTL" off the bat.

[lovethebmw]

how can you guarantee it? can they try to 'change' price on you when you go into dealer?

[OC Guy]

They can try but you can always go to a different dealer. It really depends on the individual. Make sure you know your rates, what charges apply, etc. before going. Are you leasing, financing, or buying?

[lovethebmw]

at end of Sept...guess I should email them right before end of month?

[KL2DC]

You're planning to order I take it. Keep in mind the normal delivery time is 6-8 weeks so I'd factor this in your timeline.

Dealing with the internet manager/sales is a convenient way to buy/order your car. You only need to step foot in the dealership upon delivery if anything. It also allows you to collect quotes from as many dealerships in the confines of your home and office. Ordering is done over phone/fax, usually with a $1k refundable deposit by CC. All following communications can be via phone, email and fax.

[lovethebmw]

actually was planning to see what they had on the lot....not ordering???

[KL2DC]

Originally Posted by lovethebmw

actually was planning to see what they had on the lot....not ordering???

Just about the same process...

You're not ordering? you'd miss out on a long time BMW ownership initiation rite . Also be sure to check out BMW performance center delivery option...

[OtuaCarGod]

I'm an Internet Manager for Toyota, so I can give you any insight you seek. On average we end up selling cars for less than the retail department, for one main reason. ONline buyers are generally comparing multiple vehicles or dealers from their laptop on the couch. You have to offer more incentive to get them to the store to buy your car, when competition is high.

Keep in mind, this can be different for a BMW dealer near you, compared with us. There are 6 Toyota stores within about a 20-30 minute drive of our store, so competition is fierce. If that's not the case around you, it might not be a big incentive to contact your dealer online first.

In the end, you with generally get a lower number off the bat online versus throught he store, but you're less likely to get any additional discount, and int he end, the price in a store and online all come from the same general manager making the final decision, so the bottom line will always be the bottom line.

Ask away if you have any other questions.

[IrvRobinson]

If you want the best deal on a BMW,do a European delivery,lease or buy !

[Neurorad]

I bought mine from the local dealer, through their internet sales guy.

They were the first on a long list, and agreed to sell for what I wanted to pay.

I made up a detailed spreadsheet showing invoice pricing, that specific dealer's 'non-negotiable' fees (including MACO and 'training' fees), delivery fee, and what additional profit (price over invoice) I would pay. Every option I wanted was listed, with the invoice price for each option.

If you're not careful, the dealer will surprise you with additional fees after you've agreed to xx-over invoice. The 'training fee' at my dealership was, to them, non-negotiable, and since that's pure profit, I subtracted it from what I was willing to pay over invoice.

I walked into the local dealership and asked the salesman what fees were non-negotiable, and he told me, well before I made my offer by email.

Search the forum for 'MACO' to find out about how this is a separate line-item that the dealership is charged, similar to a delivery fee. In reality, it's an advertising fee that the dealership pays to BMWNA that has been passed onto the consumer.

[Hound Passer]

In my experience Internet sales varies greatly from dealer to dealer. The good think is as long as you know your target price range all you are wasting is a few clicks. If they respond with an acceptable price great, if not nothing lost.

[HPIA4v2]

For some reason, i don't think internet sales manager is any different than regular sales person. Alot of them not replying with quotes, which I understand since most people would probably play them against other dealer once written quote gets to buyer. maybe next time I got better luck.

As far as MACO, dealer prep etc I told my CA already that I am walking on the deal once I see those on the bill of sales period.

I think this is just a way of dealer counter-moves against Edmunds pricing.
I can vision this average Joe shopping for a new BMW, he is doing all the right moves by obtaining the invoice pricing and starts waving that mantra "xxx over invoice". And CA says sure, I even through in floor mat for that xxx over invoice.
Average Joe thought: "home run" and walked into finance office with ear-to-ear smile and wham! MACO, dealer prep, training fee.
He glanced once more at that shiny car with the keys in hand, and starts whispering, hey it's only $20 a month more with those charges just think soon.

But again, I am not getting my 535i at $1500 over invoice either(more than that). Maybe we need to go back on working down from MSRP.

[OtuaCarGod]

Originally Posted by Neurorad

I bought mine from the local dealer, through their internet sales guy.

They were the first on a long list, and agreed to sell for what I wanted to pay.

I made up a detailed spreadsheet showing invoice pricing, that specific dealer's 'non-negotiable' fees (including MACO and 'training' fees), delivery fee, and what additional profit (price over invoice) I would pay. Every option I wanted was listed, with the invoice price for each option.

If you're not careful, the dealer will surprise you with additional fees after you've agreed to xx-over invoice. The 'training fee' at my dealership was, to them, non-negotiable, and since that's pure profit, I subtracted it from what I was willing to pay over invoice.

I walked into the local dealership and asked the salesman what fees were non-negotiable, and he told me, well before I made my offer by email.

Search the forum for 'MACO' to find out about how this is a separate line-item that the dealership is charged, similar to a delivery fee. In reality, it's an advertising fee that the dealership pays to BMWNA that has been passed onto the consumer.

LOL!!! you're the kind of anal nit-picky guy that makes my job a PITA. There is no fake fees, no extra, 'pure profit' parts of the invoice. Those things just happen to be itemized by the manufacturer, none the less the dealership has to pay them. The number at the bottom of the sheet is the actual invoice number for the car who's VIN is listed on that sheet. Period. The numbers on KBB.com, Edmunds.com etc. are NOTHING. Those sites list invoice without having all the info on any specific car. When you're trying to negotiate based on invoice trust the dealer, they won't give you a fake invoice.

[John 070]

I think my best tool was the internet quote thing at edmunds.com

What I did was test drive the 335 at the dealer 4 miles from my house. Then I obtained NYC quotes which were very competitive, or so I thought at the time on 10/06, and asked my dealership to match it, which they did. NYC gave me $1600 right off the bat, then along came an $1800 off, and my dealership wanted list the day of the test drive.

Long story short is I think multiple quotes through the internet is the way to go, and then you should be able to get that price anywhere. It's all up to the dealership if they want to deal at that price. The fact that someone else can, means your dealership can imho...good luck.

[OtuaCarGod]

Originally Posted by John 070

I think my best tool was the internet quote thing at edmunds.com

What I did was test drive the 335 at the dealer 4 miles from my house. Then I obtained NYC quotes which were very competitive, or so I thought at the time on 10/06, and asked my dealership to match it, which they did. NYC gave me $1600 right off the bat, then along came an $1800 off, and my dealership wanted list the day of the test drive.

Long story short is I think multiple quotes through the internet is the way to go, and then you should be able to get that price anywhere. It's all up to the dealership if they want to deal at that price. The fact that someone else can, means your dealership can imho...good luck.

As it is designed to be done

[lovethebmw]

thanks to all for the great info.

My question based on all this..if the KBB/Edmunds stuff doesn't apply to the vehicle on my local lot specfically, how do I find out the actual invoice price of the cars I have to choose from?

[OtuaCarGod]

Originally Posted by lovethebmw

thanks to all for the great info.

My question based on all this..if the KBB/Edmunds stuff doesn't apply to the vehicle on my local lot specfically, how do I find out the actual invoice price of the cars I have to choose from?

Ask the dealer to show it to you Most of them will be happy to share it with you.

[HPIA4v2]

the regional fees, like MACO, prep, trainig fees are that regional so Edmunds would not list them.

I bought many cars and help friends/family also, and I haven't seen the invoice price that differ from Edmunds. BMW has no hold back ala Honda/Toyota.
Though from time to time, during model year switch out BMW gives dealer incentives to get rid of the older model. I was offered an 01 X5 when buying an 02 at invoice, even CA told me they got incentive to get rid the 01 to make room for 02 models.

I never have problem establishing "market" price, just ask for resonable but low price at first, make sure you get shown the door. Do this at many dealers, now you know $3500 off MRSP is not getting me close to the car, maybe $3000 will. And so on. Forget what other pay for a car, WHY????

how about these factors:
1) did they lease/buy? lease involve MF which can be jacked up by dealer. not to mention the aquisation fee.
2) trade-in, dealer give buyer good deal but he/she got robbed on trade in.
3) xxx over invoice, is that include other bogus charges? I can tell you I got $1000 over invoice, but charged $350 doc fee, $480 MACO, $250 vehicle prep, $200 training etc. Does that $1000 over invoice sound good now?

People should try having fun when buying a car, don't try to wring-out that last penny out of the deal. Now go out there and make some deals.

[Neurorad]

Thought this might be useful, for whomever, buying online.

Spreadsheet submitted to internet sales rep when I bought my car.

330xi altered.doc

Essentially $1300 over invoice, plus MACO. I deleted the line item for floor mats; I now know they can be free. They also made a little money on the rear deck spoiler install, I'm sure.

I'm guessing the published invoice prices are inflated as well.

The spreadsheet format can easily be altered to submit to as many dealerships as you want. Keep in mind it's a PITA to fly somewhere to pick up your car (unless it's ED or Spartanburg, SC!).

[OtuaCarGod]

Originally Posted by Neurorad

I'm guessing the published invoice prices are inflated as well.

I don't work for BMW, so I can't give acurate info about that, but working for Toyota the invoices published online are not from the factory, and thus are generally innacurate and LOW. NOT inflated. Please don't spread information that you can't varify, especially because info like this will only cause headache and heartache for customers and dealership personel. Thanks.