[Kennygoodboy]

Hello all. This is my first post so treat me gently. My situation - I own a 997 Targa and i am looking for a long term daily driver. I first looked at the new C class but was turned off when the base C300 came in a manual but not the more powerful C350! Idiots. So now I am looking at a BMW...the 335i looks like an exceptional auto. My first hurdle is to decide between a 335i and 335xi (I am getting the sedan either way). I wanted to throw this out to fellow Chicago drivers on several fronts -

1) Is the x "needed" for our beloved Chicago winters? Its less than $2k for the AWD so cost is not a huge issue. Is the ride that different? Only other differences i can see is that the sport package doesnt upgrade to 150mph limiter in the x and (according to the website) there is no decrease in acceleration (0-60) though i presume the x would lose in the 1/4. My first inclination is to get it so I can drive a kick *ss year round car but dont want to go there if other performance factors are diminished. Any views on this from Chicago drivers would be appreciated.

2) I talked to a sales guy at Joe Perrillo. Are they pretty good in terms of getting a decent discount, service, etc? He threw out 2-3% off MSRP and said something about maintaining a 7% margin (on invoice i presume). Doesnt sound like a great deal but not horrible either for a popular car ordered for the factory.

3) I am thinking of Monaco Blue with Terra interior...I think that will look very classy. And for options, sport package with 18" Ellipsoid wheels (will buy winter tires), park assist, heated seats, sirius and ipod adapter. I dont usually use navi and i dont like the extra bump on the dash so thats out. And of course an automatic transmission is clearly out Any other recommendations/views on options?

Thank you for any input.

Ken

[saosinned]

Originally Posted by Kennygoodboy

1) Is the x "needed" for our beloved Chicago winters? Its less than $2k for the AWD so cost is not a huge issue. Is the ride that different? Only other differences i can see is that the sport package doesnt upgrade to 150mph limiter in the x and (according to the website) there is no decrease in acceleration (0-60) though i presume the x would lose in the 1/4. My first inclination is to get it so I can drive a kick *ss year round car but dont want to go there if other performance factors are diminished. Any views on this from Chicago drivers would be appreciated.

Not necessary at all but I'm sure it wouldn't hurt. I test drove a couple of 335xi sedans but there was something odd about the way they handled that i didn't like. I guess I'm just used to RWD. It could have been the run flat tires, but ive driven other cars with RFT and I didn't feel the same negative sensation.

I've had my 325 in downtown chicago and suburbs for the past 3 years and have yet to have even a close call. As long as you're moderately careful when the roads are bad you'll be fine with the RWD.

But then again the xi has a quicker 0-60 time and gives you more freedom to have fun in the rain and snow. I ended up getting the RWD but the AWD would have made for a tough decision had it been available when i ordered.

Originally Posted by Kennygoodboy

2) I talked to a sales guy at Joe Perrillo. Are they pretty good in terms of getting a decent discount, service, etc? He threw out 2-3% off MSRP and said something about maintaining a 7% margin (on invoice i presume). Doesnt sound like a great deal but not horrible either for a popular car ordered for the factory.

I get my car serviced at Perillo and they do an alright job, but I mostly go there because its a few blocks from my place. I was considering ordering my car from there but i ended up moving to another dealership because a couple of the salesman treated me like crap (apparently because I'm 23).

Hope that helps

[EDK99]

If you want the increased limiter on the XI then in addition to the sports package you need to get the optional 18" wheels. But if you go that route then you will 100% need a set of 17" wheels with winter tires.

[omg516]

Perillo charges some type of fee on every car of like $250. I think they call it a doc fee or something, not all dealers charges that particular fee. I went in there when I was shopping around for my car and stood around for about 15 minutes and left without anyone saying a word to me. Not even a may I help you. My friend on the other hand, was approached by a salesman and asked what he was doing while he was trying out the gearbox in a car and told to stop. I won't ever consider going there for a purchase or service, even though I live about a mile away.

[Tag]

Perillo sucks! I bought my first two bimmers from them but this time they tried to screw me and they also treated me like shit. Needless to say I took my business elsewhere. I got my car this time from Motor Werks out in Barrington.

The CA I dealt with is #1 in sales for BMW in the whole state. I got an awesome deal and was treated great. If anyone needs his contact info send me a private message.

[Kruz]

That price doesnt sound so great. Deals can be had with little effort for an ordered 335xi E90 at $1000 over invoice.

I test drove a coupe, sedan, and then the xi sedan all with sport. For daily driver duties, you wont notice much a difference other than the ride height.

If you go xi, get the 18s to guaranty the second oil cooler. The 150mph governor supposedly is not doable on the xi despite the 18s but I wont believe until I see it myself. My order detail listed the 150mph as a line item beneath the 18" tire upgrade. You WILL need all seasons or winters if you get the 18s.

No idrive and you wont get the neat ipod menu and the other dozen or so features it allows for customization of your car.

[Maestro]

I can tell you this much, and I live in snow country, the 335i suck on the snow, even an inch of snow if you do not have good snow tires which I did not have last year. It has too much power not to spin the wheels and the traction control makes it worse, the car will not move so I had to turn it off and let the wheels spin a bit to get some forward motion going.

Where I live we get 3 or 4 storms in the winter and I can work from home so, it was not worth waiting to get the x-drive, but I am getting good snow tires this winter, it was too scary with out them coming from an AWD car.

[tintivilus]

Originally Posted by Kennygoodboy

1) Is the x "needed" for our beloved Chicago winters? Its less than $2k for the AWD so cost is not a huge issue. Is the ride that different? Only other differences i can see is that the sport package doesnt upgrade to 150mph limiter in the x and (according to the website) there is no decrease in acceleration (0-60) though i presume the x would lose in the 1/4. My first inclination is to get it so I can drive a kick *ss year round car but dont want to go there if other performance factors are diminished. Any views on this from Chicago drivers would be appreciated.

Originally Posted by Maestro

I can tell you this much, and I live in snow country, the 335i suck on the snow, even an inch of snow if you do not have good snow tires which I did not have last year. It has too much power not to spin the wheels and the traction control makes it worse, the car will not move so I had to turn it off and let the wheels spin a bit to get some forward motion going.

AWD is thoroughly overrated... way too many people think it's necessary, when really they just don't have the right tires for winter.

RWD cars are perfectly fine in even moderately heavy snow (until you start plowing with the air dam) IF you get snow tires. I didn't even have particularly rugged snow tires (Winter Sport M3's) and I was the only guy without an SUV to show up at work when there was heavy (for chicago -- 4-6") snow last winter. One tap on the DSC button and you're golden.

Now, if you leave summer tires on the car, AWD isn't going to help much at all. You're still boned if it snows.

I think the biggest winter-driving bonus of the xi is that it comes with all-seasons even with the sport package... or is that wrong?

Of course, an xI with proper snow tires could probably climb trees, but why would you need that in Chicago? If you lived in Vail or something I could see it coming in handy, but in the midwest it's pointless.

[Maestro]

Originally Posted by tintivilus

and I was the only guy without an SUV to show up at work when there was heavy (for chicago -- 4-6") snow last winter. One tap on the DSC button and you're golden.

You saw the research about people who drive SUVs, the majority of them consider themselves bad drivers thus the reason for having an SUV they want to feel safe and secure, so it does not surprise me they would not try and get to work when it snows....

But I agree having a good set of tires, helps the most, without that I do not care what kind of vehicle you have you going to have problems.

[tintivilus]

Originally Posted by Maestro

You saw the research about people who drive SUVs, the majority of them consider themselves bad drivers thus the reason for having an SUV they want to feel safe and secure, so it does not surprise me they would not try and get to work when it snows....

But I agree having a good set of tires, helps the most, without that I do not care what kind of vehicle you have you going to have problems.

We're on the same page, but you mis-understood me... On the morning in question the un-plowed parking lot had a smattering of SUV's and my E92

[Kennygoodboy]

I appreciate the the responses. I sort of figured I would get the "awd drive is worthless vs you NEED it in winters" debate. I will drive both and make a call. Some other thread said Perillo was ok but I will check out other dealers just in case.

[beauderek]

I bought my Bimmer at Bill Jacobs, in Naperville. They gave me a pretty good price, and I was happy with the service. I got the 330xi, and love it in the rain, and snow.

[tintivilus]

Originally Posted by Kennygoodboy

I appreciate the the responses. I sort of figured I would get the "awd drive is worthless vs you NEED it in winters" debate. I will drive both and make a call. Some other thread said Perillo was ok but I will check out other dealers just in case.

It's an oldie, but a goodie Just don't drive on summer tires all winter and you'll do just fine.

Anyway, I bought mine from Knauz mainly because they were recommended by my old mechanic when I moved down here and I've stuck with them ever since. They didn't have the *best* price, but they were competitive, have a great service dept and body shop, and best of all they don't stick shit on your car

[BKsBimmer]

Originally Posted by tintivilus

AWD is thoroughly overrated... way too many people think it's necessary, when really they just don't have the right tires for winter.

RWD cars are perfectly fine in even moderately heavy snow

Of course, an xI with proper snow tires could probably climb trees, but why would you need that in Chicago? If you lived in Vail or something I could see it coming in handy, but in the midwest it's pointless.

I guess there are no hills in Chicago??? I would pay to see you trying to tackle a hill with a steep incline in your 335i with "the right winter tires" in moderately heavy snow.

[saosinned]

Originally Posted by BKsBimmer

I guess there are no hills in Chicago??? I would pay to see you trying to tackle a hill with a steep incline in your 335i with "the right winter tires" in moderately heavy snow.

Pretty much. Anything very steep around chicago (Lemont is the first place the comes to mind) can usually be avoided or driven around. They also plow the roads like crazy most of the time. They usually have snow trucks driving around if there's even forecasted snow (also people getting ready to ticket anyone parked in a snow route).

Now if you're planning on driving somewhere else in 2" of snow you may have an issue. But i've tackled many steep inclines in both FWD and RWD cars, including roads in minnesota and canada. Not to say the AWD doesn't help, but its not necessary in many places as long as you're careful driving and pay a little extra attention.

[shawshank772]

Nope, not really any hills. The midwest isnt called the prairie states or flatlands for nothing.

[epbrown]

Originally Posted by saosinned

Pretty much. Anything very steep around chicago (Lemont is the first place the comes to mind) can usually be avoided or driven around. They also plow the roads like crazy most of the time. They usually have snow trucks driving around if there's even forecasted snow (also people getting ready to ticket anyone parked in a snow route).

Yep, Chicago is pretty flat. My first winter, I got by fine in my 325i on all-season tires. I'll never forget slipping and sliding all over the place that first snowfall, until I remember the DSC button. The car straightened out and drove like a champ - it was an incredible transformation; this was my first car with any sort of traction control. The next winter, I snagged some used snowtires from a BMWCCA member upgrading to an E90 - golden ever since.

As for Perillo, since I live downtown that is who I use and they've been okay for the most part, though they seem to have an awful reputation in local BMW circles. My only issue was when I wanted them to fit my Z4 for the optional hardtop - it should cost about$150 and they quoted me $900. There was clearly some confusion about what work was involved, and I got the impression no one there had ever actually done a Z4. In the end, I bought the parts from them and did the install myself in under an hour. Aside from that, I've never had a problem with them, and I've had all the work on both my BMWs done there.

Oh, as for the showroom - if I so much as look at a car, a salesperson is on me and I leave with another card, and I'm always in a t-shirt and jeans there. However, I'll note that the reason I didn't buy either of my cars from them when shopping is they don't stock used cars with manuals. I stopped by when looking for both mine, with no luck. In fact, my 325i was originally ordered through them, then traded in there. The place I bought it from got it from them.

[Gort]

Not down around Palos Park/Hills. I had a Supra Turbo once that couldn't make the hills there with just a little snow.

[tintivilus]

Originally Posted by BKsBimmer

I guess there are no hills in Chicago??? I would pay to see you trying to tackle a hill with a steep incline in your 335i with "the right winter tires" in moderately heavy snow.

Yeah, like others have said... that's a negative on the hills

There are a couple fairly big ones I regularly drive in Milwaukee (eg Lafayette hill from the lakefront up to the east side) that I'd try to avoid until the plows went through, but that's about it.

If I lived in New England I'm sure I'd be singing a different tune on the AWD, but in most of the midwest it's just a soccer-mom safety blanket unless you're doing serious off-roading.

[Tag]

I've driven my past two e46's with winter tires in and around Chicago with no problems. Winter tires make a huge difference, it's night and day. They bite into the snow so effortlessly. I've used both Dunlop Sport M3 winter tires and Blizzacks.

And don't even think about trying to drive with summer tires. That's an accident waiting to happen. Just remember this... "335i + Z rated tires in snow = huge sled on the road".

[ucla1995]

Irv at Motorwerks, great salesperson, great dealership in my opinion.

xi is overkill in Chicago in my opinion, I've been thrilled with my RWD + snows. However, I have noticed that the xi's resale value seems to hold up much better (even better than the initial price differential), so in terms of cost of ownership I think the 'xi would be cheaper.

[choatie88]

+1 to Irv, and -1 to Perillo sales... can't comment on their service, but the sales experience was truly horrific.