[cptcrunch]

New Urea tank for everyone!

I have owned my car for 2.5 years now and this is the last year it will be under warranty with 42k on the odo. Every winter I have had several SES lights which I assumed to be the fuel cap, as most of them are related to it. I would undo the fuel cap, retighten, and the SES light would go away a few days later and then come back a week or two. Rinse and repeat until Spring, never fails.

So being this is my last warranty winter I decided to take it in to have the fuel cap replaced. Instead they read the codes and found that the temperature sensor for the urea fluid was not reading correctly under 35F and had to be replaced. However, the sensor is inside the tank, and so the entire tank needs to come off and replaced. They ordered parts, needed more, and 5 days later I'm still in a 320xi (which blows, btw). I might get the car back today, but most likely will be after Christmas.

I'm not terribly worried about the fix, but the fixers. The SA told me that mine is the 3rd of these they have ever done, and so every tech/foreman is looking at my car. Not sure if this is good or bad, but im hoping that the rest of the winter goes smoothly.

I'll try and see what the out of pocket costs would be when I pick up my car. This is the 2nd thing thats been broken, with the 1st being a squeaky dash panel. So I can't really complain.

[clintjg]

This may be the source of my issue which looks to be identical given the circumstances. Thank you for posting!

[Quasimodem]

I have had a similar problem since my warranty ran out. LOL

I would get a SES light. Then, I would fill up the fuel tank and the SES light would go out after restarting it once or twice. Then it would go on and then out again if I let the tank got down to around a quarter. I assumed it was a fuel pump/fuel cap problem. This went on for a long time, and then the SES light just started to stay on all the time, with no noticeable performance problems. Then we had a sudden cold snap a while back and shortly after refilling the fuel tank the SES light went out. Surprise surprise. Now it is back to staying on. But no performance problems. I am deathly afraid of handing the car to a dealership mechanic I don't know knows these cars.

I am thinking it is some kind of pressure sensitive device causing my SES. I have read that fuel tanks expand and contract depending on the temperature, so my guess is that there is some sensor which is getting bad readings based on pressure in the tank which changes with temperature or a defective fuel cap.

Please give us the codes your car is throwing, the codes I get off my car are kinda useless because they arent listed anywhere. We will protect you if BMW tries to kill you for giving out the codes, we are not in Germany.

[cptcrunch]

Originally Posted by Quasimodem

I have had a similar problem since my warranty ran out. LOL

I would get a SES light. Then, I would fill up the fuel tank and the SES light would go out after restarting it once or twice. Then it would go on and then out again if I let the tank got down to around a quarter. I assumed it was a fuel pump/fuel cap problem. This went on for a long time, and then the SES light just started to stay on all the time, with no noticeable performance problems. Then we had a sudden cold snap a while back and shortly after refilling the fuel tank the SES light went out. Surprise surprise. Now it is back to staying on. But no performance problems. I am deathly afraid of handing the car to a dealership mechanic I don't know knows these cars.

I am thinking it is some kind of pressure sensitive device causing my SES. I have read that fuel tanks expand and contract depending on the temperature, so my guess is that there is some sensor which is getting bad readings based on pressure in the tank which changes with temperature or a defective fuel cap.

Please give us the codes your car is throwing, the codes I get off my car are kinda useless because they arent listed anywhere. We will protect you if BMW tries to kill you for giving out the codes, we are not in Germany.

I'll post the codes and what they did to fix everything when I get it. They still have my car, might be getting it back today or tomorrow. They keep finding more parts they need that are not in stock or have to be overnighted from a warehouse somewhere not local.

I asked my SA about the approx cost to fix this out of warranty and he said at the time, they were at $1.1k with parts and around $1.5k with labor. I'll get the final total when I pick up the car.

[TorqueAddict]

Same issue here. Scanned for the code (using a cheap ELM BT 327 and Torque app) the code that i was provided with: P21a9. Researched a bit and found that it is the code for the temperature sensor in active or passive urea tank. Cleared it for now using the "Torque" app on android. its been almost 500kms and it has not come back on.

[Quasimodem]

Originally Posted by TorqueAddict

Same issue here. Scanned for the code (using a cheap ELM BT 327 and Torque app) the code that i was provided with: P21a9. Researched a bit and found that it is the code for the temperature sensor in active or passive urea tank. Cleared it for now using the "Torque" app on android. its been almost 500kms and it has not come back on.

I understand BMWhat is the bees knees here. If you have a phone capable of doing torque, you should try BMWhat too and let us know how it does with the 335d.

[TorqueAddict]

Here is what BMWhat says:

The code is still there, but its not throwing CEL until now. May be if it gets triggered a few more number of times, then it will show up as CEL.

[OhioState5]

I have a 2011 335d and my SES light came on too. My car only has 22k on it. I'm in Cincinnati and Jake Sweeney had it for almost a week (while I drove a terrible 320xi). I get it back for 30 minutes and the light comes on again. I'm supposed to take it back this week. I'll post the codes it was throwing when I get home later.

[GreekboyD]

Keep us posted dude.

[NWCT335d]

Looks like I am having this same issue on my 2011 with 32k miles. Got a persistent SES light 2 weeks ago in cold weather. Was finally able to get it into the dealer and they found that the DEF temperature sensor is faulty. They ordered parts that just came in, so we'll see how long it takes them to fix and get it back to me.

I am in a 528i xDrive loaner which, while not terrible, is definitely not a 335d. Can't wait to get it back.

My wifi OBDII adapter and BMWhat app are ready when I get the car back.

Chris

[cptcrunch]

They had the car for about 9 days. They had to order parts 3 separate times due to issues with what was said to be needed and what was actually needed. Dealership gave daily updates and offered to swap loaners when I complained about the 320xi. So if you are in Cincy, go see Rodney at the BMW Store.

Anyways, here is the invoice:



The invoice says code 4D32. The code would come and go and was not on when I took it in for service, but was on when I called for service. They read the historical codes and found what I was talking about. Per the SA, the total would have been around $1150 with parts/labor. Not sure where he got the original numbers (in the 2-2.5k range), and I'm not sure I trust the above number either with how much labor they said was needed. Unfortunately my SA was out when I picked up the car, so I will try and get better numbers.

Car seems to drive fine now, no issues or SES light.

[cptcrunch]

I wanted to bump this thread as my car is back in the shop. Same codes as before, but with a 'over pressure' sensor code and the vehicle went through 5 gallons of urea fluid in ~1600 miles. I dropped the car off on Tuesday and they are saying it wont be until mid-next-week before I'll have it back. I'll update once a solution is found, but I'm getting a little nervous. Warranty is up June 30 and I dont want to pay for DEF/Urea Tank issues out of warranty.

[Ryballz]

I had mine in for the same cold weather SES light. They wanted to drain the tank and refill it, naturally charging me $200 for a full tank of urea in the process. I told them not to worry about it.

A month later the car was in for something unrelated, and they ended up replacing the tank and sensor without even asking me, no charge this time aside from the $50 CPO deductible.

[Quasimodem]

Originally Posted by cptcrunch

I wanted to bump this thread as my car is back in the shop. Same codes as before, but with a 'over pressure' sensor code and the vehicle went through 5 gallons of urea fluid in ~1600 miles. I dropped the car off on Tuesday and they are saying it wont be until mid-next-week before I'll have it back. I'll update once a solution is found, but I'm getting a little nervous. Warranty is up June 30 and I dont want to pay for DEF/Urea Tank issues out of warranty.

Did you ever get the feeling that the SES light came on or off depending on the fuel level? Did the SES light ever go out within a couple of engine starts after filling the fuel tank?

[cptcrunch]

Originally Posted by Quasimodem

Did you ever get the feeling that the SES light came on or off depending on the fuel level? Did the SES light ever go out within a couple of engine starts after filling the fuel tank?

I hadn't noticed that. What I did notice is that after 7-8 starts the SES would go away, only to come back in another 7-8 starts. The last time, the light came on Friday morning and on Saturday afternoon i started receiving the low urea warning on startup. When I took it Tuesday afternoon, the SES and low urea warnings were still there.

I talked to the SA on Saturday (while on my back staring up at a Jeep 4.0) and he said they were shrugging their shoulders as they could not figure out why it was behaving the way it was. He said it went through 5 gal of fluid in 1700 miles, so maybe a stuck open metering valve. So they cleared the codes and did a couple of test drives and are going to let me know today.

[Quasimodem]

Originally Posted by cptcrunch

I hadn't noticed that. What I did notice is that after 7-8 starts the SES would go away, only to come back in another 7-8 starts. The last time, the light came on Friday morning and on Saturday afternoon i started receiving the low urea warning on startup. When I took it Tuesday afternoon, the SES and low urea warnings were still there.

I talked to the SA on Saturday (while on my back staring up at a Jeep 4.0) and he said they were shrugging their shoulders as they could not figure out why it was behaving the way it was. He said it went through 5 gal of fluid in 1700 miles, so maybe a stuck open metering valve. So they cleared the codes and did a couple of test drives and are going to let me know today.

What is the extact code numbers for "overpressure"? Is that pressure in the Active DEF tank? If so, then there is a pressure sensor and temperature sensor there. Certainly, pressure changes with termperature (what was that? Boiles Law?), but there's a pump too, so I guess if the pump is continuously pumping it could cause overpressure? And a bad sensor might cause the pump to keep pumping... Keep us posted.

[cptcrunch]

Originally Posted by Quasimodem

What is the extact code numbers for "overpressure"? Is that pressure in the Active DEF tank? If so, then there is a pressure sensor and temperature sensor there. Certainly, pressure changes with termperature (what was that? Boiles Law?), but there's a pump too, so I guess if the pump is continuously pumping it could cause overpressure? And a bad sensor might cause the pump to keep pumping... Keep us posted.

I'll get the codes, cost and solution and post here when I get the car back. I was supposed to hear back yesterday, so either they wrecked the car or its still giving them problems.

[cptcrunch]

Heard from my SA earlier today. Based upon the errors and readings, they talked with the Regional Engineer and he told them to replace the urea injector as it was crusted over with urea fluid and stuck open. They did clean it before replacement but replacement was ultimately advised as it did not fix the issue. My SA did say that there is a new bulletin addressing this issue, that BMWNA is seeing urea injector damage due to cold weather and water content in the urea fluid. The fluid has been freezing (despite the heaters) and causing all sorts of issues.

He said the part is $130 and that he would let me know the labor cost if I were out of warranty. This has been the only thing wrong with the car, and I hope this is the final fix or I might have to either dump the DPF system or go pick up a m235i from Europe.

[Quasimodem]

Originally Posted by cptcrunch

Heard from my SA earlier today. Based upon the errors and readings, they talked with the Regional Engineer and he told them to replace the urea injector as it was crusted over with urea fluid and stuck open. They did clean it before replacement but replacement was ultimately advised as it did not fix the issue. My SA did say that there is a new bulletin addressing this issue, that BMWNA is seeing urea injector damage due to cold weather and water content in the urea fluid. The fluid has been freezing (despite the heaters) and causing all sorts of issues.

He said the part is $130 and that he would let me know the labor cost if I were out of warranty. This has been the only thing wrong with the car, and I hope this is the final fix or I might have to either dump the DPF system or go pick up a m235i from Europe.

"urea injector" sounds like the part that injects DEF into the DPF. That should be pretty warm on regen, unless the cars can go into regen before being warmed up. Maybe they meant Urea pump? But I doubt it because a pump isnt "open" it just runs or doesnt. So assuming there is always pressure in the system (if the pressurizing pump from the active tank is constantly running) then that would be a problem and would explain why yours used up DEF so fast. But that is kinda crazy, sounds like a system that wears out the pump. Wouldnt the pump go only when it is needed? On regen?

[taibanl]

Anyone know if 4d32 is covered by 7/70?

[Hoooper]

Being that it is fixed by replacing the entire tank/pump system, it has to be even though the sensor itself is not specifically covered. Since the tank/pump and sensors are all one part, they should all be considered the same warranty item.

[Quasimodem]

Originally Posted by Hoooper

Being that it is fixed by replacing the entire tank/pump system, it has to be even though the sensor itself is not specifically covered. Since the tank/pump and sensors are all one part, they should all be considered the same warranty item.

There is a Supply Module (P/N 16 19 7 244 137) that sits on top of a round cap on the active tank held on by a large ring. Once you get the ring off (I used a huge channel lock pliers) The cap can be removed by reattaching the Supply module and wiggling and pulling up on it. Once you pry the cap up, it wont come free because it is connected by hoses internally. It is probably not hard to pull the hoses off to get the cap off, but when had the cap off I decided not to mess with it and just screwed it back down and cleaned the Supply Module.

I assumed that this was a heater and I believe the Supply Module is the pump. If that is so, the pump and the tank are separate items. I cant find a part number or a diagram of the Active tank so I cant be sure.

See http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1114976