[Bash]

BTW - I have the JB4 on my car as we speak, Euro98 octane on map5, detuned to 11 psi and i still get drops.
Our fuel is rubbish, maybe but ive seen people on flashes boosting upto 15 psi with clean ign advance using same fuel as i.

[Alan l.]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

I remember you were at around 16psi on the Cobb vs. 13psi on JB4 map 1 when you did a comparison. Boost for boost performance is going to be similar between them.

Mike

On the flip side of the Cobb running more boost in the summer since they target Load, in the winter the cobb cars will boost 12-13psi to make the same power which would put it lower than what the piggies are currently running at.

[Clarkson]

Weak sauce dude.. You can't make a statement like that and bow out.

Point us to the link..

I can see them getting the encryption part from someone but the table mapping (the tune) is theirs.

Originally Posted by bigdaddycane

yes, I do (you can find the name if you search older posts), but I am not going to initiate a sh*t storm on this forum. That's not what I was doing.

I will switch to COBB when they come out with Stage II. I am happy with my JB4 for now with the bolt-ons I have as I know it's setup for them.

[Litos]

Originally Posted by caradd

I did not say you said that, I'M SAYING IT. And yes it does mean it is not linear. Look up the meaning of the word, LINEAR, the Cobb AP is certainly not that at least on my Manual.

I have several post regarding the throttle response with logs.

so since Cobb makes more boost at the same throttle as the JB4, it's not linear !?!?

[Litos]

Originally Posted by Clarkson

Weak sauce dude.. You can't make a statement like that and bow out.

Point us to the link..

I can see them getting the encryption part from someone but the table mapping (the tune) is theirs.

yeah, he pretty much balked on it.

it's like the guy that runs up and throws a beer from about 20 feet away in a bar fight and then hauls ass out the back door.

Cobb doesn't know WTF he's talking about......

[caradd]

Originally Posted by Litos

so since Cobb makes more boost at the same throttle as the JB4, it's not linear !?!?

Again, not what I said. I am referring to the Cobb AP tune not being linear.

Here is a log I did with 40%-50% throttle yet the Cobb AP is giving me full throttle and full boost which in case you did not know shows as 80%.

Far from being Linear.

[korben dallas]

Originally Posted by caradd

Again, not what I said. I am referring to the Cobb AP tune not being linear.

Here is a log I did with 40%-50% throttle yet the Cobb AP is giving me full throttle and full boost which in case you did not know shows as 80%.

Far from being Linear.

On the std maps throttle is definitely not linear, by design. If you want linear throttle response you need to download the alternate throttle maps.

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

I think the boost comparison "(Peak numbers) is trivial as the way Cobb functions (Targets boost) is entirely different to JB4/PROcede. Lets not forget either, more boost doesnt always mean more power.

There is always a happy medium between boost and ignition. Little more boost will yield less ignition and maybe the same power. The other way around a little more ignition and a little less boost might be just as efficient or more on power. Its a trivial debate to say the least.

You have to remember more boost is more heat.

Point- More boost doesnt = more power necessarily.

[caradd]

Originally Posted by korben dallas

On the std maps throttle is definitely not linear, by design. If you want linear throttle response you need to download the alternate throttle maps.

I tried all the V 2.00 2.01 and 2.02 maps. They where either too much boost too soon or boost to late.

[korben dallas]

Originally Posted by caradd

I tried all the V 2.00 2.01 and 2.02 maps. They where either too much boost too soon or boost to late.

Those don't sound like alternate throttle maps to me. For example, the linear alternate throttle map would be v203 v1, and the more progressive start linear map would be v203 v2.

[Litos]

Originally Posted by Jeff@topgearsolutions

Point- More boost doesnt = more power necessarily.

for whatever reason, it did in my case.

[AU335i]

heard Cobb raises the redline to like 7200 iirc? fact or fiction?

[Litos]

we pulled up at 6950 on both logs - not sure where it actually redlines though.....

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Originally Posted by Litos

for whatever reason, it did in my case.

Its a grey area. You can add more boost up until a certain point. That X factor is on a case by case basis. Also depends on where your adding boost.

If you wanted more boost on your JB4 you could have added it. So saying Cobb has more boost is moot cause Jb4 and Procede (the other most popular tunes)can just add more and adjust other features.

Dont take this as an anti Cobb post either, its one of my best sellers. I just want people to understand that saying a tune has more boost isnt the whole story.

[caradd]

Originally Posted by korben dallas

Those don't sound like alternate throttle maps to me. For example, the linear alternate throttle map would be v203 v1, and the more progressive start linear map would be v203 v2.

Dude, I used all of those. Look up my previous post if you care, regarding Cobb throttle mapping.

[Rob@Cobb]

Originally Posted by bigdaddycane

Cobb didn't design the software.

If you search older (COBB) posts you can figure out who did.

I'm not sure where you picked up this information as it is false. There is a company or two I have talked with that guessed or surmised we didn't complete the work our self given we seemed to come out of nowhere. I started and have continued to lead the BMW project for the past 2+ years completing most of the development myself.

Cheers,
Rob

[Litos]

Originally Posted by Jeff@topgearsolutions

Its a grey area. You can add more boost up until a certain point. That X factor is on a case by case basis. Also depends on where your adding boost.

If you wanted more boost on your JB4 you could have added it. So saying Cobb has more boost is moot cause Jb4 and Procede (the other most popular tunes)can just add more and adjust other features.

Dont take this as an anti Cobb post either, its one of my best sellers. I just want people to understand that saying a tune has more boost isnt the whole story.

i know - and i have openly admitted it many times.

Map 1 - 14psi with JB4
Stage 1 - 15.6-15.8psi

Map 2 could have hit 15.5-16psi but i didn't want to throw that much boost at my car since i heard from Terry that "some cars can handle Map 2 with no issues, other can't".

i just played it safe and ran Map 1.

[Rob@Cobb]

Originally Posted by Jeff@topgearsolutions

I think the boost comparison "(Peak numbers) is trivial as the way Cobb functions (Targets boost) is entirely different to JB4/PROcede. Lets not forget either, more boost doesnt always mean more power.

There is always a happy medium between boost and ignition. Little more boost will yield less ignition and maybe the same power. The other way around a little more ignition and a little less boost might be just as efficient or more on power. Its a trivial debate to say the least.

You have to remember more boost is more heat.

Point- More boost doesnt = more power necessarily.

We have found the N54 likes timing to a point, but is not the larger power maker of the N54. The torque curve pretty much follows the boost curve. Add boost (stock turbos) and you get more power on the N54 pretty much everywhere other than really pushing it above 5.5kRPM. Knowing that information, running a boost curve that the car is happy with, then tuning timing around that boost curve provides a great safe tune for that power level. Getting to MBT for timing on the N54 on pump is great. Going beyond MBT upping cylinder pressure is where motors get hurt.

When running a Subaru, lower IATs are very important as they will detonate outside of perfect conditions beyond the fact you can't get to MBT on pump gas. The N54 seems to be indifferent to 105 CAT or 140 CAT. They make power with timing staying quiet either way. A benefit of a very well designed and efficient motor.

When making a safe tune, it's better (IMO) to remove some timing in sensitive areas than boost given timing is what usually kills motors. There is timing that could be added to our maps in the higher RPM range for another 10whp, but was not worth the safety risk for a first revision of maps.

Interesting topic of what boost the JBx runs for its base maps. The stock timing curve is aggressive for stock boost levels. Given the JBx must run the stock timing for a targeted WOT load of 120-130, they can't really push boost too hard on pump gas because they are stuck with aggressive factory timing. Not an optimal solution using the ECU to continually pull timing. Sure you can tell the device to add more boost, but I would certainly not suggest it.

Cheers,
Rob

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Originally Posted by Rob@Cobb

We have found the N54 likes timing to a point, but is not the larger power maker of the N54. The torque curve pretty much follows the boost curve. Add boost (stock turbos) and you get more power on the N54 pretty much everywhere other than really pushing it above 5.5kRPM. Knowing that information, running a boost curve that the car is happy with, then tuning timing around that boost curve provides a great safe tune for that power level. Getting to MBT for timing on the N54 on pump is great. Going beyond MBT upping cylinder pressure is where motors get hurt.

When running a Subaru, lower IATs are very important as they will detonate outside of perfect conditions beyond the fact you can't get to MBT on pump gas. The N54 seems to be indifferent to 105 CAT or 140 CAT. They make power with timing staying quiet either way. A benefit of a very well designed and efficient motor.

When making a safe tune, it's better (IMO) to remove some timing in sensitive areas than boost given timing is what usually kills motors. There is timing that could be added to our maps in the higher RPM range for another 10whp, but was not worth the safety risk for a first revision of maps.

Interesting topic of what boost the JBx runs for its base maps. The stock timing curve is aggressive for stock boost levels. Given the JBx must run the stock timing for a targeted WOT load of 120-130, they can't really push boost too hard on pump gas because they are stuck with aggressive factory timing. Not an optimal solution using the ECU to continually pull timing. Sure you can tell the device to add more boost, but I would certainly not suggest it.

Cheers,
Rob

I'll acknowledge your post but I respectfully want to avoid any rebuttal to avoid any tuner war debates as I play on the neutral side. I will say this; Tuning is an art and a science. There's more then one way to play.

[Bash]

Originally Posted by Rob@Cobb

We have found the N54 likes timing to a point, but is not the larger power maker of the N54. The torque curve pretty much follows the boost curve. Add boost (stock turbos) and you get more power on the N54 pretty much everywhere other than really pushing it above 5.5kRPM. Knowing that information, running a boost curve that the car is happy with, then tuning timing around that boost curve provides a great safe tune for that power level. Getting to MBT for timing on the N54 on pump is great. Going beyond MBT upping cylinder pressure is where motors get hurt.

When running a Subaru, lower IATs are very important as they will detonate outside of perfect conditions beyond the fact you can't get to MBT on pump gas. The N54 seems to be indifferent to 105 CAT or 140 CAT. They make power with timing staying quiet either way. A benefit of a very well designed and efficient motor.

When making a safe tune, it's better (IMO) to remove some timing in sensitive areas than boost given timing is what usually kills motors. There is timing that could be added to our maps in the higher RPM range for another 10whp, but was not worth the safety risk for a first revision of maps.

Interesting topic of what boost the JBx runs for its base maps. The stock timing curve is aggressive for stock boost levels. Given the JBx must run the stock timing for a targeted WOT load of 120-130, they can't really push boost too hard on pump gas because they are stuck with aggressive factory timing. Not an optimal solution using the ECU to continually pull timing. Sure you can tell the device to add more boost, but I would certainly not suggest it.

Cheers,
Rob

This is all the art and science that i need. Well said

[Litos]

Originally Posted by Bash

This is all the art and science that i need. Well said

yeah, Cobb doesn't mess around.