[ayilar]

Sorry if this is a repost -- did a search and could not find an answer.

When one goes through ED, is the new $180 training fee applicable? My understanding is that MACO and processing fees do not apply, that D&H does apply (now $775), but I am getting conflicting info on the trainign fee. Can anyone point me in the right direction?

[BMW F22]

MACO and training fees don't apply on EDs.

[Hound Passer]

Just to add:

If you d/l the e93 wholesale/retal price list it clearly states that the Training Fee is N/C (no charge).

MACO and Processing Fees are pure dealership charges. BMW has nothing to do with them. A dealer should not charge you MACO for an ED since the car isn't coming from their allocation, but then again I think MACO is BS all around and shouldn't be charged for any car.

Bottom line: unless you can negotiate out of the MACO and processing you are gonna get stuck with them unless you find a dealer that doesn't charge them or is more reasonable.

[BMW F22]

Originally Posted by Hound Passer

Just to add:

If you d/l the e93 wholesale/retal price list it clearly states that the Training Fee is N/C (no charge).

MACO and Processing Fees are pure dealership charges. BMW has nothing to do with them. A dealer should not charge you MACO for an ED since the car isn't coming from their allocation, but then again I think MACO is BS all around and shouldn't be charged for any car.

Bottom line: unless you can negotiate out of the MACO and processing you are gonna get stuck with them unless you find a dealer that doesn't charge them or is more reasonable.

Not trying to nitpick but MACO & training fees are charged by BMW NA to the dealers. So they pass that cost on to the customers. And like you said, dealers shouldnt be charging those fees for EDs and if they are, the OP should just walk away because that's a bunch of crap.

BTW- N/C stands for No Cost.

[Hound Passer]

Originally Posted by BMWE90

Not trying to nitpick but MACO & training fees are charged by BMW NA to the dealers. So they pass that cost on to the customers. And like you said, dealers shouldnt be charging those fees for EDs and if they are, the OP should just walk away because that's a bunch of crap.

BTW- N/C stands for No Cost.

I don't want to get nit picky either but MACO is different than the training fee as it is not a listed charge on any car's price list. It's an ordinary dealership advertising expense. I expect the price I pay for my car to cover those kinds of costs and leave a nice profit for the dealer too. I won't accept being nickeled and dimed for every two-bit expense a dealer wants to sneak in after the deal is done. It's a BMW dealership not Costco (charges extra for shopping bags).

BMW does not mandate that dealer's push MACO onto customers. Dealers just do it because there are a lot of customers that will pay it, no questions asked. (Notice how CAs often tell customers "a $100 charge is nothing on BMW," but if you try to get $100 accessory tossed in when negotiating they act like they are one filing away from bankruptcy). MACO is a mini-scam though, especially when a dealer gets MSRP. Personally, my dealer does not charge it, nor would I pay it. I think the charges a dealer pads in or doesn't pad in tells you everything you need to know about a dealer's attitude toward customers.

BTW No Cost, No Charge...gets you to the same place every time. THAT really is being nit picky. I've heard CA's use both. I'm pretty sure it really doesn't matter either way.

[ayilar]

Thanks for all the responses. My CA told me that the TF was a charge from BMW, even for ED, and that he had to pass it on. Since he is offering me a good (i.e., low) markup otherwise, I may decide to not press the issue.

[Hound Passer]

Originally Posted by ayilar

Thanks for all the responses. My CA told me that the TF was a charge from BMW, even for ED, and that he had to pass it on. Since he is offering me a good (i.e., low) markup otherwise, I may decide to not press the issue.

D/L the wholesale price list posted here or on bimmerfest.com and show him the big fat NC next to Training Fee. Let him explain that before forking over $1 more than you need to. That is unless you like forking over your money unnecessarily. In that case I'll take a few $ too . Seriously, it's the principle of the thing. Don't be an enabler!

[Booboo12]

and don't forget you don't get floor mats on that $40k+ car automatically.. those are extra too.... (not sure about that for ED though... I've heard different stories).

[BMW F22]

Originally Posted by Booboo12

and don't forget you don't get floor mats on that $40k+ car automatically.. those are extra too.... (not sure about that for ED though... I've heard different stories).

Those will be included when you pick up your car.

[BMW F22]

[QUOTE=Hound Passer;1039626]I don't want to get nit picky either but MACO is different than the training fee as it is not a listed charge on any car's price list. It's an ordinary dealership advertising expense. I expect the price I pay for my car to cover those kinds of costs and leave a nice profit for the dealer too. I won't accept being nickeled and dimed for every two-bit expense a dealer wants to sneak in after the deal is done. It's a BMW dealership not Costco (charges extra for shopping bags).

BMW does not mandate that dealer's push MACO onto customers. Dealers just do it because there are a lot of customers that will pay it, no questions asked. (Notice how CAs often tell customers "a $100 charge is nothing on BMW," but if you try to get $100 accessory tossed in when negotiating they act like they are one filing away from bankruptcy). MACO is a mini-scam though, especially when a dealer gets MSRP. Personally, my dealer does not charge it, nor would I pay it. I think the charges a dealer pads in or doesn't pad in tells you everything you need to know about a dealer's attitude toward customers.

Right. BMW NA charges the dealers and the dealers pass the cost onto the customers. Isnt that what I said??

I too think we shouldnt have to pay "a little more" than the price that we've negotiated. However, that's pretty much the rule now, there's no way around it unless you do ED (or say "I will give you $1k over invoice and that's it, all fees included").

Also- WHAT!?!?! Costco charges extra for shopping bags??

Originally Posted by Hound Passer

BTW No Cost, No Charge...gets you to the same place every time. THAT really is being nit picky. I've heard CA's use both. I'm pretty sure it really doesn't matter either way.

You must have missed the whole "salesman vs. client advisor" thread. I mean both are pretty much the same thing right? wrong!! For BMW the term Client Advisor (CA) is pretty much carved in stone. Even if I didnt say anything, sooner or later someone will come along and tell you the same thing.