Notes from my track day

UltraRacer13 · 01-03-2012, 03:05 PM

I went to Motor Sport Ranch in Cresson Texas yesterday for a private track day. I have driven this track numerous times. We all ran solo. I thought I would share some things I learned about my setup etc.

Event
MSR-C 1.7 CCW
Jan 2, 2012
Private/ Apex Event
Temp- 38-55
Dry

Car
335XI
Cobb 301 Aggressive- linear map
AST’s set to 8/10 (400/800)
Vorshlag plates (-2 then adjusted to about -4)
Nitto Invos (new rear, 50% front)
M3 strut brace
Stett Stg II OC
Hawk HPS front / OEM rear
All nannies off

Ran 7- 20 minute sessions

There were 2 other 335's out there. Both are forum members and good friends. One is an AT with no oil cooler and struggled with limp modes all day despite the cool ambient temps, eventually leaving early. The other suffered a boost leak.

Clearly my Stett Stg II OC earned its keep. I pounded on the car all day and never saw temps over 260! No codes all day, no limp.

I have struggled with understeer since I began tracking the car. I bought vorshlag plates when I got the coils, but other than using them to add a bit of extra camber for my DD setup, I have not adjusted them at the track. The reason was I was fearful of the way it would throw off the other aspects of the alignment, particularly toe. Yesterday, I was was pushing so bad, my right front tire started to chunk badly, ripping pieces of rubber off the corner. I decided to put my plates to use and jacked the car up and slammed in the camber. I added quite a bit, probably to around -4 or so. WOW! The car was immediately transformed. I have no idea what effect this had on the toe alignment- I didn't care. Suddenly the car went where I pointed it. It was night and day. I immediately took the DSC off as well, running as much we can without nannies. With the AST coils set to 8F/10R the car was so easy to control the slip angle.

If you are even considering adjustable camber plates you have to get this mod. Especially if you already have coils and are running a stiff setup.

See you at the track!

skow · 01-03-2012, 08:59 PM

Thanks for posting this, not many other XI drivers tracking to share information with.

I am driving an XI with coilovers and haven't really observed too much understeer, adding a bit of gas is helping me keep the rear behind me when i'm feeling understeer (which you can't do with DSC on). I wonder if I'm just used to what you see as a good amount of understeer and would greatly benefit from camber plates, or if our setup is different and I'm not understeering as much as you.

When you say you are now turning DSC off, you are talking about holding the button for 10 seconds and disabling both DTC and DSC? I've been driving with the single press, i believe that is DTC on and DSC off, allows acceleration in the corners when you are slipping but is still aiding with some control.

mid-corner fun · 01-03-2012, 10:10 PM

IMO, DTC On/DSC off (aka single press) is very disrupting at the track as it tends to cut off power exactly when you need it to power-out of a corner. Also tends to reduce power when the steering wheel is at >45 degrees regardless of throttle position.

If you (and your instructor) are comfortable I'd suggest holding down the button for 5 secs, turning all nannies off and spending time playing with corner throttle modulation. I extensively tried DTC On/DSC off after I installed my LSD, thinking that with DSC off and the LSD taking care of traction loss all would be well, that was not the case. My corner exit speeds improved significantly after turning everything off.

Do you even see traction loss (blinking light at dash) at the track with the XI? You should have a significant advantage in that area.

Turkeybaster115 · 01-03-2012, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeterM1

If you (and your instructor) are comfortable I'd suggest holding down the button for 5 secs, turning all nannies off and spending time playing with corner throttle modulation. I extensively tried DTC On/DSC off after I installed my LSD, thinking that with DSC off and the LSD taking care of traction loss all would be well, that was not the case. My corner exit speeds improved significantly after turning everything off.

So wait, with your LSD, and TC off, the car wasn't smooth through the turns? Is LSD overrated on this vehicle?

mid-corner fun · 01-03-2012, 11:37 PM

the other way around. With LSD and DTC on/DSC off I still had power cut-offs, without the traction light coming on.

Turning all the nannies off fixed the problem.

UltraRacer13 · 01-03-2012, 11:47 PM

I turned all the nannies off- 5 sec for the exact reason Peter mentioned. With DTC on (one short press) it was cutting power exactly as needed editing turns, particularly those off camber, of which this track has a few.

Skow- my experience has been that adding power accentuates the plow (understeer), often in the past I would lift in sharp turn to get the rear to pivot around. With the improved setup, I was able to slide the car at a nice slip angle with confidence.

henry418 · 01-04-2012, 01:44 PM

Thanks for posting this, installing camber plates in a week or so

Did you find Hawk HPS pads to be good enough when tracking?

TurboBimmer · 01-04-2012, 01:51 PM

Nice post! Do you have suspension parts from the M3 on your car? Those will help to increase the car's handling, alot!

mid-corner fun · 01-04-2012, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by henry418

Did you find Hawk HPS pads to be good enough when tracking?

HPS pads will fade fast if you're running in a fast group, they're not track pads. You need to take it a step up with HT10/DTC70 if you want to stay in the Hawk line. BTW, DTC60s unfortunately don't seem to be available for the OEM calipers and DCT70s chew up rotors for breakfast.

The advantage though is they're great for the street, so if you don't experience brake fade with them (yet), they're a good solution.

UltraRacer13 · 01-04-2012, 05:57 PM

The Hawks are OK- I use Motul 600 fluid, but no SS lines or anything. At the end of a session they start to fade. My braking is really starting to hold back my times.

I have a set of ECB yellow's in the track kit, just kinda waiting on the Hawk's to get used up. After this track day, they are about there so I will probably make the change soon. The Hawks are great for the street. No squealing at all.

I do not have any M3 parts (other than the tower brace). One day...

01-03-2012, 03:05 PM	#1
UltraRacer13 Wannabe Track Rat 71 Rep 930 Posts Drives: 17 OG M2 Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Texas iTrader: (1)	Notes from my track day I went to Motor Sport Ranch in Cresson Texas yesterday for a private track day. I have driven this track numerous times. We all ran solo. I thought I would share some things I learned about my setup etc. Event MSR-C 1.7 CCW Jan 2, 2012 Private/ Apex Event Temp- 38-55 Dry Car 335XI Cobb 301 Aggressive- linear map AST’s set to 8/10 (400/800) Vorshlag plates (-2 then adjusted to about -4) Nitto Invos (new rear, 50% front) M3 strut brace Stett Stg II OC Hawk HPS front / OEM rear All nannies off Ran 7- 20 minute sessions There were 2 other 335's out there. Both are forum members and good friends. One is an AT with no oil cooler and struggled with limp modes all day despite the cool ambient temps, eventually leaving early. The other suffered a boost leak. Clearly my Stett Stg II OC earned its keep. I pounded on the car all day and never saw temps over 260! No codes all day, no limp. I have struggled with understeer since I began tracking the car. I bought vorshlag plates when I got the coils, but other than using them to add a bit of extra camber for my DD setup, I have not adjusted them at the track. The reason was I was fearful of the way it would throw off the other aspects of the alignment, particularly toe. Yesterday, I was was pushing so bad, my right front tire started to chunk badly, ripping pieces of rubber off the corner. I decided to put my plates to use and jacked the car up and slammed in the camber. I added quite a bit, probably to around -4 or so. WOW! The car was immediately transformed. I have no idea what effect this had on the toe alignment- I didn't care. Suddenly the car went where I pointed it. It was night and day. I immediately took the DSC off as well, running as much we can without nannies. With the AST coils set to 8F/10R the car was so easy to control the slip angle. If you are even considering adjustable camber plates you have to get this mod. Especially if you already have coils and are running a stiff setup. See you at the track! Last edited by UltraRacer13; 01-03-2012 at 11:49 PM..
	Appreciate 0 Tweet Quote

01-03-2012, 08:59 PM	#2
skow First Lieutenant 20 Rep 310 Posts Drives: 2016 F36 Gran Coupe xDrive Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Oregon iTrader: (1)	Thanks for posting this, not many other XI drivers tracking to share information with. I am driving an XI with coilovers and haven't really observed too much understeer, adding a bit of gas is helping me keep the rear behind me when i'm feeling understeer (which you can't do with DSC on). I wonder if I'm just used to what you see as a good amount of understeer and would greatly benefit from camber plates, or if our setup is different and I'm not understeering as much as you. When you say you are now turning DSC off, you are talking about holding the button for 10 seconds and disabling both DTC and DSC? I've been driving with the single press, i believe that is DTC on and DSC off, allows acceleration in the corners when you are slipping but is still aiding with some control. Last edited by skow; 01-03-2012 at 09:10 PM..
	Appreciate 0 Quote

01-03-2012, 10:10 PM	#3
mid-corner fun Lieutenant Colonel 89 Rep 1,513 Posts Drives: F80 M3, '22 X3MC Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: NJ iTrader: (5)	IMO, DTC On/DSC off (aka single press) is very disrupting at the track as it tends to cut off power exactly when you need it to power-out of a corner. Also tends to reduce power when the steering wheel is at >45 degrees regardless of throttle position. If you (and your instructor) are comfortable I'd suggest holding down the button for 5 secs, turning all nannies off and spending time playing with corner throttle modulation. I extensively tried DTC On/DSC off after I installed my LSD, thinking that with DSC off and the LSD taking care of traction loss all would be well, that was not the case. My corner exit speeds improved significantly after turning everything off. Do you even see traction loss (blinking light at dash) at the track with the XI? You should have a significant advantage in that area.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

01-03-2012, 11:37 PM	#5
mid-corner fun Lieutenant Colonel 89 Rep 1,513 Posts Drives: F80 M3, '22 X3MC Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: NJ iTrader: (5)	the other way around. With LSD and DTC on/DSC off I still had power cut-offs, without the traction light coming on. Turning all the nannies off fixed the problem.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

01-03-2012, 11:47 PM	#6
UltraRacer13 Wannabe Track Rat 71 Rep 930 Posts Drives: 17 OG M2 Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Texas iTrader: (1)	I turned all the nannies off- 5 sec for the exact reason Peter mentioned. With DTC on (one short press) it was cutting power exactly as needed editing turns, particularly those off camber, of which this track has a few. Skow- my experience has been that adding power accentuates the plow (understeer), often in the past I would lift in sharp turn to get the rear to pivot around. With the improved setup, I was able to slide the car at a nice slip angle with confidence.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

01-04-2012, 01:44 PM	#7
henry418 Captain 54 Rep 769 Posts Drives: 2016 BMW M3 Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Vancouver, Canada iTrader: (4)	Thanks for posting this, installing camber plates in a week or so Did you find Hawk HPS pads to be good enough when tracking?
	Appreciate 0 Quote

01-04-2012, 01:51 PM	#8
TurboBimmer Lieutenant Colonel 82 Rep 1,616 Posts Drives: F82 M4 Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Luxembourg iTrader: (5)	Nice post! Do you have suspension parts from the M3 on your car? Those will help to increase the car's handling, alot! __________________ Performance Seats, Exhaust, Splitters, Pedals, Steering Wheel / RB Turbos / M3 CF Roof / Brembo GT BBK 355/345 / Rollcage / Forge FMIC / Quaife LSD / Öhlins Road & Track / M3 Suspension Parts / Solid Subframe Bushings / Vorshlag Camberplates / Megan Racing Toe Links / LeatherZ Gauges / Extended M3 DCT Paddles / ER Sports OC / AR OC / Aux Radiator / AR DPs / Alpina TCU / COBB Pro-Tune
	Appreciate 0 Quote

01-04-2012, 05:57 PM	#10
UltraRacer13 Wannabe Track Rat 71 Rep 930 Posts Drives: 17 OG M2 Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Texas iTrader: (1)	The Hawks are OK- I use Motul 600 fluid, but no SS lines or anything. At the end of a session they start to fade. My braking is really starting to hold back my times. I have a set of ECB yellow's in the track kit, just kinda waiting on the Hawk's to get used up. After this track day, they are about there so I will probably make the change soon. The Hawks are great for the street. No squealing at all. I do not have any M3 parts (other than the tower brace). One day...
	Appreciate 0 Quote