[D_o_S]

Hiya,

I've set myself a budget of 1500 EUR on becoming a better driver this year.

My question is, what do I do with my money?

There is the BMW school and other racing schools that offer training - a 1 or 2 day course at a track for 1500 EUR.

Then there are generic defensive driving schools and things, that basically teach you how to handle understeer/oversteer, etc. A 1 day course costs like 100 EUR, so I could fit in 15 days of training at schools like these... The price for the racing schools therefore seems way off... put it this way, if I attend a generic school like this during the whole year, I can "train" there once or even twice a month. That should make me a better drive than one two day course through the whole year, no?

Another option is to plan an event to the ring... go to Nurburg for like 4 or 5 days... The 25 lap card is 500 EUR, I assume the stay would be like 500 EUR as well... I could do like 5 laps a day (thats like 80km of track time), drive the surroundings of Nurburg, etc... With an uncertain future in regards to the Ring (it might be closed, etc.) it may well be a good idea to do this now.

Basically, it comes down to this: do I need an instructor? Are the things I'm going to learn from the instructor of greater benefit than pure seat time? I have read Ross Bentley's book, as well as others... I'm well aware of the theory in regards to driving fast, but I'm not that well aware of what the car can actually do, sensing the limit, etc.

What I have learned so far at driver trainings (BMW school, a local one) is that I am "bored" for all except 1 event - skid pad. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the course for what it's worth, but at the end of the day, I feel that the exercise that gives me most is a circular skid pad, where you try to go several circles in oversteer/understeer. At generic schools, since everyone uses his/her car, the speeds are set too low for the 335i... It's like trying evasive maneuvers at 50km/h, when the BMW could handle like 70...

So, any input is very welcome.

Additional info: I'm 22 and I've done about 30 000 Km in my life. I'm looking for most bang for my buck.

[mid-corner fun]

Originally Posted by D_o_S

Basically, it comes down to this: do I need an instructor?

yes

Originally Posted by D_o_S

Are the things I'm going to learn from the instructor of greater benefit than pure seat time?

YES

Originally Posted by D_o_S

I have read Ross Bentley's book, as well as others... I'm well aware of the theory in regards to driving fast, but I'm not that well aware of what the car can actually do, sensing the limit, etc.

Understanding the theory is a good start, applying it (correctly) is the next step. An instructor will point you the right way before you can continue on your own. I've been driving solo for the last 2 seasons and once in a while I get an instructor to ride with me just for feedback/point out bad habits I've picked up along the way. I always end up picking up useful advice that improves my driving and lap times.

Stick with instructor-based driving schools and throw in a racing school if possible. Not just skidpad exercises, full-course instruction-based sessions. Lapping the ring is sure fun but can wait till a bit later on.

Hope this helps

[D_o_S]

Originally Posted by PeterM1

yes



YES



Understanding the theory is a good start, applying it (correctly) is the next step. An instructor will point you the right way before you can continue on your own. I've been driving solo for the last 2 seasons and once in a while I get an instructor to ride with me just for feedback/point out bad habits I've picked up along the way. I always end up picking up useful advice that improves my driving and lap times.

Stick with instructor-based driving schools and throw in a racing school if possible. Not just skidpad exercises, full-course instruction-based sessions. Lapping the ring is sure fun but can wait till a bit later on.

Hope this helps

Thanks for the reply,

so basically, you say I need an instructor. Now, what do you think is better - the 1 or 2 day racing school, or 15 days of defensive driving thing (i.e. evasive manouvers, understeer/oversteer controll, etc.)?

Any other input welcome.

[RWD Jan]

Originally Posted by D_o_S

Another option is to plan an event to the ring... go to Nurburg for like 4 or 5 days... The 25 lap card is 500 EUR, I assume the stay would be like 500 EUR as well... I could do like 5 laps a day (thats like 80km of track time), drive the surroundings of Nurburg, etc... With an uncertain future in regards to the Ring (it might be closed, etc.) it may well be a good idea to do this now.

A visit to the Ring is allways a great idea However its not a the best place learning to drive at the limit since there is a steel wall 2 meters of grass from the road. This might prove to be quite expensive.

If you choose to go anyway I would suggest that you rent a Swift at Rent4ring. They are great fun and way easier to drive at the limit than your 335i.

A trackday at a simpler track would be a better way to start. And a lot of them seem to have instructors...

[mid-corner fun]

Originally Posted by D_o_S

Thanks for the reply,

so basically, you say I need an instructor. Now, what do you think is better - the 1 or 2 day racing school, or 15 days of defensive driving thing (i.e. evasive manouvers, understeer/oversteer controll, etc.)?

Any other input welcome.

Do you have anything similar to our HPDEs there (4-6 x 20-30min daily sessions on track with an instructor sitting next to you), that would be a good start. Ideally a combination of HPDE-type instruction and a couple of pure racing school days. Don't make any changes to the car other than safety items, it's best to focus on improving the nut behind the wheel first :-)

BTW, you can always go to the ring to have fun but not for learning purposes. Traffic there is out of control and session-management is non-existent, at least from my limited experience visiting the ring during my ED. The ring is too popular for public days/non-organized events

[The HACK]

I'm going to use a very simple analogy, I hope you'll understand.

Driving is like having sex.

It really is. You can read up all you want about how to please a woman, you can look at all the diagrams in the world, but just like the clitoris, you won't know what the hell an apex is before you actually find it.

And like sex, you can pleasure yourself and keep thinking rosey palms is the greatest sex eve. You can even think you're really good at it. But unless someone more experienced than you show you how to REALLY do it and do it right, all you're doing is poking around in the dark and neither one of you will be all that comfortable doing it.

Also like sex, when you do it right, the feeling is downright euphoric.

Lastly, both sex and driving gets better when you have a qualified 3rd party involved.

[turugara]

Originally Posted by The HACK

both sex and driving gets better when you have a qualified 3rd party involved.

+1 or 4th or 5th or 6th...

[vwong]

Originally Posted by The HACK

Lastly, both sex and driving gets better when you have a qualified 3rd party involved.

Damn....I need to visit the Bunny Ranch for some 3-way action then.

[mid-corner fun]

Originally Posted by turugara

+1 or 4th or 5th or 6th...

I signed you up as the guest speaker for that March HPDE event we've registered for, it'll be the first time anyone other than the Green group students attend a class

[turugara]

Originally Posted by PeterM1

I signed you up as the guest speaker for that March HPDE event we've registered for, it'll be the first time anyone other than the Green group students attend a class

[kiwi29]

Originally Posted by The HACK

I'm going to use a very simple analogy, I hope you'll understand.

Driving is like having sex.

It really is. You can read up all you want about how to please a woman, you can look at all the diagrams in the world, but just like the clitoris, you won't know what the hell an apex is before you actually find it.

damnn this is golden!!! sig worthy hahaha