Has anyone really pushed the Helix turbos?

Jonny550 · 03-02-2012, 12:01 PM

iam hopefully picking up my new project car in the next few weeks ( 07 335i), And the more i research the less info i come up with.

As most of us here have just pushed the stock turbos to their absolute limit which from my understanding is around 18psi. What should i expect out of a helix, FBO, meth car @ 19-20 psi?

Just asking out of sheer interest as the RB's or Shivs single, Is at the top of the list right now.

Jonny550 · 03-02-2012, 03:41 PM

TTT, Alot of views no input.

TurboBullett@Ambient Thermal Management · 03-02-2012, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon335iFL

iam hopefully picking up my new project car in the next few weeks ( 07 335i), And the more i research the less info i come up with.

As most of us here have just pushed the stock turbos to their absolute limit which from my understanding is around 18psi. What should i expect out of a helix, FBO, meth car @ 19-20 psi?

Just asking out of sheer interest as the RB's or Shivs single, Is at the top of the list right now.

I am waiting on the Cobb file for the shop car but those compressors are happiest at 20-21 psi tapering to 17-18 at 6000 to redline at that boost level 450-475 whp should be attainable on pump gas. Until they are run at that boost level your answer is NO they haven't been "pushed" this is not a guess, I have personally run the same compressor wheels and made mid 400's whp on a less efficient engine and drivetrain with less displacement at these boost levels!

themyst · 03-02-2012, 04:09 PM

I have a feeling you Helix guys are underboosting on standard mapping. Am I right? You need a TON of WGDC to get those big boost numbers up top. Don't ask me how I know.

I am seeing 74% WGDC at 16.2 psi at redline. Getting to 18-19 psi is hopefully possible to wake these things up.

Peak 460-470 on a dynojet isn't out of the question.

TurboBullett@Ambient Thermal Management · 03-02-2012, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by themyst

I have a feeling you Helix guys are underboosting on standard mapping. Am I right? You need a TON of WGDC to get those big boost numbers up top. Don't ask me how I know.

I am seeing 74% WGDC at 16.2 psi at redline. Getting to 18-19 psi is hopefully possible to wake these things up.

Peak 460-470 on a dynojet isn't out of the question.

Everybody takes boost as a power indicator, it's not boost is a measure of restriction in a system. I would prefer to make 450 whp at 1psi over 21 psi any day of the week. The compressor wheels are about a 25-30% improvement over the stock wheel and should require the wastgates to be open more at the same power levels(less duty cycle) as the wheels push ALOT more air per revolution than the stockers! Wgdc % in this car is a complicated subject that relies on may parameters most of which are on the combustion side of the equation(timing, exhaust volume and flow, exhaust temperature etc and ultimately total exhaust flow)

Speaking of restriction we have pretty much uncorked this engine With bolt on parts except for the compressor inlet pipes, they are restrictive and I'm working on it Dzenno is sending me his stock set and I will be working on improving them with an in the car solution...

jpsimon · 03-02-2012, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by themyst

I have a feeling you Helix guys are underboosting on standard mapping. Am I right? You need a TON of WGDC to get those big boost numbers up top. Don't ask me how I know.

I am seeing 74% WGDC at 16.2 psi at redline. Getting to 18-19 psi is hopefully possible to wake these things up.

Peak 460-470 on a dynojet isn't out of the question.

what WGDC are you seeing at 6k at 17-18psi?

themyst · 03-02-2012, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TTurboBullett

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon335iFL

iam hopefully picking up my new project car in the next few weeks ( 07 335i), And the more i research the less info i come up with.

As most of us here have just pushed the stock turbos to their absolute limit which from my understanding is around 18psi. What should i expect out of a helix, FBO, meth car @ 19-20 psi?

Just asking out of sheer interest as the RB's or Shivs single, Is at the top of the list right now.

I am waiting on the Cobb file for the shop car but those compressors are happiest at 20-21 psi tapering to 17-18 at 6000 to redline at that boost level 450-475 whp should be attainable on pump gas. Until they are run at that boost level your answer is NO they haven't been "pushed" this is not a guess, I have personally run the same compressor wheels and made mid 400's whp on a less efficient engine and drivetrain with less displacement at these boost levels!

You're right, making the same power on less boost. Point is we are trying to find the limit which means we need to up WGDC which means increased boost. If they don't make power at a specific target you back it down!

Either way, we're both getting close.

themyst · 03-02-2012, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpsimon

Quote:

Originally Posted by themyst

I have a feeling you Helix guys are underboosting on standard mapping. Am I right? You need a TON of WGDC to get those big boost numbers up top. Don't ask me how I know.

I am seeing 74% WGDC at 16.2 psi at redline. Getting to 18-19 psi is hopefully possible to wake these things up.

Peak 460-470 on a dynojet isn't out of the question.

what WGDC are you seeing at 6k at 17-18psi?

16.4 psi @ 64% WGDC.

vasillalov · 03-02-2012, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TTurboBullett

Everybody takes boost as a power indicator, it's not boost is a measure of restriction in a system. I would prefer to make 450 whp at 1psi over 21 psi any day of the week.

BINGO!

Quote:

Originally Posted by TTurboBullett

Speaking of restriction we have pretty much uncorked this engine With bolt on parts except for the compressor inlet pipes, they are restrictive and I'm working on it Dzenno is sending me his stock set and I will be working on improving them with an in the car solution...

I think you will see more benefits in using a ported head from PAW or VAC.

Brey335i · 03-02-2012, 07:01 PM

I have been on the lookout for information on the Helix turbos for a long time now. There's almost no information out there.

I have been thinking about getting them because my AT won't be very happy with RB turbos at their full potential. Might as well save a few bucks and go with Helix.

themyst · 03-02-2012, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brey335i

I have been on the lookout for information on the Helix turbos for a long time now. There's almost no information out there.

I have been thinking about getting them because my AT won't be very happy with RB turbos at their full potential. Might as well save a few bucks and go with Helix.

You can always back down the boost in the low-mid range to prevent your transmission from excessive shock. But I agree, a 4k tranny rebuild makes my stomach churn!

Brey335i · 03-02-2012, 07:19 PM

That's true, but wouldn't that defeat the purpose of buying the more expensive RBs?

themyst · 03-02-2012, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brey335i

That's true, but wouldn't that defeat the purpose of buying the more expensive RBs?

Not really, torque drops up top so in terms of pure acceleration which happens 4500-7000 rpm you're a bit safer. Torque kills transmissions not hp

When you spike 500+ lbs of torque off the line that's when trannys go kaput!

turugara · 03-03-2012, 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vasillalov

I think you will see more benefits in using a ported head from PAW or VAC.

VAC is like...pretty much down the street from Helix. You guys should look into that.

Jonny550 · 03-03-2012, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by themyst

Not really, torque drops up top so in terms of pure acceleration which happens 4500-7000 rpm you're a bit safer. Torque kills transmissions not hp

When you spike 500+ lbs of torque off the line that's when trannys go kaput!

+1, this is the reason the DCT M3 guys can run 650hp on supercharged s65's. Their only dyno'ing 360-380 tq.

The n54 throws out every ounce of tq @ 2000 rpms lol.

03-02-2012, 12:01 PM	#1
Jonny550 Brigadier General 258 Rep 4,936 Posts Drives: 2012 550i Xdrive Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Jersey Shore iTrader: (14)	Has anyone really pushed the Helix turbos? iam hopefully picking up my new project car in the next few weeks ( 07 335i), And the more i research the less info i come up with. As most of us here have just pushed the stock turbos to their absolute limit which from my understanding is around 18psi. What should i expect out of a helix, FBO, meth car @ 19-20 psi? Just asking out of sheer interest as the RB's or Shivs single, Is at the top of the list right now. __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] .
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03-02-2012, 03:41 PM	#2
Jonny550 Brigadier General 258 Rep 4,936 Posts Drives: 2012 550i Xdrive Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Jersey Shore iTrader: (14)	TTT, Alot of views no input. __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] .
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03-02-2012, 04:09 PM	#4
themyst Major General 189 Rep 6,631 Posts Drives: '16 MK7 GTI Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: NYC iTrader: (8)	I have a feeling you Helix guys are underboosting on standard mapping. Am I right? You need a TON of WGDC to get those big boost numbers up top. Don't ask me how I know. I am seeing 74% WGDC at 16.2 psi at redline. Getting to 18-19 psi is hopefully possible to wake these things up. Peak 460-470 on a dynojet isn't out of the question. __________________ E90 LCI N54 6AT
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03-02-2012, 07:01 PM	#10
Brey335i Banned 118 Rep 4,771 Posts Drives: e46 ///M3 Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Austin, TX iTrader: (11)	I have been on the lookout for information on the Helix turbos for a long time now. There's almost no information out there. I have been thinking about getting them because my AT won't be very happy with RB turbos at their full potential. Might as well save a few bucks and go with Helix.
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03-02-2012, 07:19 PM	#12
Brey335i Banned 118 Rep 4,771 Posts Drives: e46 ///M3 Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Austin, TX iTrader: (11)	That's true, but wouldn't that defeat the purpose of buying the more expensive RBs?
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