[Rudz]

Hi,

I bought a 2006 320D M Sport from Brighton Chandlers three months ago, I've had a few problems with it, latest being

- everytime I fill the tank up there is a lot of Diesel leak
- There is severe clutch judder

I have a year's unlimited mileage warranty, I went to the dealership yesterday to report these problems, I got the shock of my life when they said they will have to investigate to check if these items are covered or not, to check the problem with the leak they will have to remove the tank which is 4 hrs labour and to check the problem with the clutch, they'll have to remove the clutch assembly ? to diagonose these problems they want me to commit close to a £1000? if it turns out the leak is caused by a faulty hose or if there is clutch wear which is apparently not covered by warranty then I will not get a refund?

When you buy a pre-approved car, they state, we make sure we run checks to ensure there are no unexpected costs for necessary repairs or replacement of specified components ?But I am looking at a bill of £2500 (incl replacement parts) on a 3 month car if it turns out that the clutch is worn and leak is due to hose pipe ? I am not happy about this at all ? Any advice people on how I could take this forward ?

Thanks a lot, looking forward to your expert advice

[bmwak]

Both of your problems are fairly common to the pre-facelift 1 Series and 3 Series variants, so I can tell you what they are, as I've previously owned a 2006 118D which had both problems.

The fuel leak is the fuel overflow pipe. It bridges between the tank and the top of the fuel filler neck. On pre-facelift 1 and 3 Series these have known to foul and cause a hole midway, thus causing a leak. It will most probably be leaking from around the rear wheel arch. The pipe is about £23 to buy and the labour...well my 1 series was out of warranty so took it to my local indy who did it for £68 inclusive of genuine BMW parts. I think on the AUC warranty, pipes are not covered IIRC.

Regarding the clutch judder, well I had a bit on my 1 Series but just lived with it. However, i've had it on my 2010 320d coupe. BMW have released several clutch plates which have failed to resolve the issue. However, the latest 2012 clutch kit definetely fixes the problem as i have done nearly a 1,000 miles and it is 100% judder free *touchwood* The clutch should be covered but again, is dependant on the mileage your car has covered. If it is below 60k, i think it is reasonable to assume it is due to a defect rather than 'wear and tear'.

Unfortunetely, most dealers will ask you to authorise labour costs (they even did it initially for my 3 Series which is still under new car warranty). I don't think you can escape that i'm afraid and becomes more of a risk when a car is older (more chance of problems being put down to wear and tear).

Hope this helps

[BGM]

Good post, shame i can't *like* or +1 it

[Rudz]

Originally Posted by bmwak

Both of your problems are fairly common to the pre-facelift 1 Series and 3 Series variants, so I can tell you what they are, as I've previously owned a 2006 118D which had both problems.

The fuel leak is the fuel overflow pipe. It bridges between the tank and the top of the fuel filler neck. On pre-facelift 1 and 3 Series these have known to foul and cause a hole midway, thus causing a leak. It will most probably be leaking from around the rear wheel arch. The pipe is about £23 to buy and the labour...well my 1 series was out of warranty so took it to my local indy who did it for £68 inclusive of genuine BMW parts. I think on the AUC warranty, pipes are not covered IIRC.

Regarding the clutch judder, well I had a bit on my 1 Series but just lived with it. However, i've had it on my 2010 320d coupe. BMW have released several clutch plates which have failed to resolve the issue. However, the latest 2012 clutch kit definetely fixes the problem as i have done nearly a 1,000 miles and it is 100% judder free *touchwood* The clutch should be covered but again, is dependant on the mileage your car has covered. If it is below 60k, i think it is reasonable to assume it is due to a defect rather than 'wear and tear'.

Unfortunetely, most dealers will ask you to authorise labour costs (they even did it initially for my 3 Series which is still under new car warranty). I don't think you can escape that i'm afraid and becomes more of a risk when a car is older (more chance of problems being put down to wear and tear).

Hope this helps

£68, I can live with, do they have to remove the tank to find this problem ? they are quoting 4hrs labour for this ? if I got it done through an indy would that invalidate my warranty ? Also, this only happens when I fill her up to the brim ? Could I live with this problem without fixing it ? I mean, is it dangerous or something? I was reading someplace else that this could also be a problem with the breather pipe ?

My car has done 52k miles, is there any easy diagnosis to isolate the clutch problem ? I dont want them removing the clutch assembly and charging me a bomb for it ?

Thanks a lot bmwak, appreciate it

[MEGA]

Changing a hose with an official BMW one won't invalidate anything as they'd have no possibly knowledge that the hose is not the original.

As for clutch. 52k is borderline. The can't honestly reject it: But may try to.

They may also say the flywheel is starting to show wear and therefore want to replace both, and not want to do the flywheel for free etc etc.

Depends on the dealer being on your side. They can push for approval, but it's a headache for them...

I feel bmwak will have more insight on top of this; he's been very useful thus far..

[m1bjr]

I had a new 318d from new in 2010.
Its always juddered, particularly pulling a car full of adults away from steep gradients.
ICGAF about it as its not mine.
But if it were I wuld be kicking off big style!

[phil200tdi]

They are common faults which the stealer will likely be aware of. If BMW has released an updated clutch you can reference this.

Give them a bollocking for trying it on. What is the point in having a warranty otherwise?

[bmwak]

Originally Posted by Rudz

£68, I can live with, do they have to remove the tank to find this problem ? they are quoting 4hrs labour for this ? if I got it done through an indy would that invalidate my warranty ? Also, this only happens when I fill her up to the brim ? Could I live with this problem without fixing it ? I mean, is it dangerous or something? I was reading someplace else that this could also be a problem with the breather pipe ?

My car has done 52k miles, is there any easy diagnosis to isolate the clutch problem ? I dont want them removing the clutch assembly and charging me a bomb for it ?

Thanks a lot bmwak, appreciate it

No problem. Glad to be of help.

It was quite a while back now but my indy was basically able to undo the tank and tilt the tank slightly to get at it. So no, it didn't require removal of the fuel tank. It was done within the hour and they also gave me the old pipe back so knew it was done. Like you, it was also only when the tank was filled to brim, but no leak after the new pipe was fitted. The diagram on Realoem shows you the part in question (part labeled number 16) - the part after 2006 is a revised part with a plastic shrowd around it:

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...95&hg=16&fg=05

Regarding the clutch, they have to take out the gearbox and measure the flywheel and clutch. If it is gone blue then it will be a straight 'no' and they will ask you to cough up for labour. From what my dealer said, they have no say in authorisation under warranty for the clutch. They send these so-called measurements to BMW UK and they then come back with a yes or no for the car in question. If the car has full BMW service history (which it probably has being an AUC) and is only 3 months old with 52k miles, I think you have a strong chance of fighting your ground for a replacement clutch and flywheel under warranty. Should you have any problems getting a decision in your favour then just speak directly with BMW UK.

But as MEGA says in all of this ensuring the dealer is on your side is key. I moved away from one dealer to another because I felt that there was always resistance in getting things done under warranty. With the dealer I use now, I feel that they are always on my side and bend over backwards to get things done to my satisfaction and I can always request the same technician to work or atleast overlook the work on my car (as he's very meticulous and knows I look after my car endlessly).

[bmwak]

Just to add, a genuine pipe won't affect warranty as MEGA says. The breather pipe is the same as this overflow pipe. It is also known as a vent pipe - just different names.

I don't think it will damage your engine but being the considerate type of guy that I am I wouldn't like a cyclist or biker to slip on Diesel that was spilt on the road by my car

[ComputerKnowHow]

The fuel breather/vent pipe also broke on my 56 plate 320d. It was picked up at the MOT and subsequently failed its MOT because of it.

I had noticed it was leaking, and only after brimming the tank on the way home and then stopping shortly afterwards. If it was only half full, there was a distinct smell of diesel around the rear end of the car when stopped.

The bill was massive - £679 I think from the dealer, and the vast majority of that was for 4 hours' labour. I wailed a bit, but it's definitely not covered by any warranty, including the insured warranty.

I wailed a bit more at the dealer. BMW paid for all parts and labour out of goodwill but I obviously had to pay up front to get my car back and was refunded the following business day.

[bmwak]

Originally Posted by ComputerKnowHow

The fuel breather/vent pipe also broke on my 56 plate 320d. It was picked up at the MOT and subsequently failed its MOT because of it.

I had noticed it was leaking, and only after brimming the tank on the way home and then stopping shortly afterwards. If it was only half full, there was a distinct smell of diesel around the rear end of the car when stopped.

The bill was massive - £679 I think from the dealer, and the vast majority of that was for 4 hours' labour. I wailed a bit, but it's definitely not covered by any warranty, including the insured warranty.

I wailed a bit more at the dealer. BMW paid for all parts and labour out of goodwill but I obviously had to pay up front to get my car back and was refunded the following business day.

I don't know why BMW charge 4 hours labour when my indy was able to do it within the hour. Even if you had to remove the tank, I can only see this adding another hour (as my indy had to undo all bolts that you have to in order to remove the tank anyway - just didn't move the exhaust out of the way to completely remove it.

[ComputerKnowHow]

Originally Posted by bmwak

I don't know why BMW charge 4 hours labour when my indy was able to do it within the hour. Even if you had to remove the tank, I can only see this adding another hour (as my indy had to undo all bolts that you have to in order to remove the tank anyway - just didn't move the exhaust out of the way to completely remove it.

Quite. I had quite a lot of fuel in, and I asked if they needed to remove the tank would they refill it with diesel. I was told they wouldn't need to remove the tank, only drop it slightly. The 4 hours is mystifying but I had no choice at the time. Perhaps it's very difficult to put back together properly...

[BGM]

they are just clowns, the lot of them.

[bmwak]

Originally Posted by ComputerKnowHow

Quite. I had quite a lot of fuel in, and I asked if they needed to remove the tank would they refill it with diesel. I was told they wouldn't need to remove the tank, only drop it slightly. The 4 hours is mystifying but I had no choice at the time. Perhaps it's very difficult to put back together properly...

It basically entails undoing a couple of small bolts at the top of the fuel tank (which is under the rear passenger seats, undoing the two straps under the car and it should give enough movement from what I remember when my 1 Series was done. Then you just got to undo the drivers side rear wheel arch (also taking off the wheel) to get to the top of the filler neck. The reversal of this is pretty much the same - the four hours must have several tea breaks - with a hours lunch break ofcourse lol

[gIzzE]

Originally Posted by Rudz

Hi,

I bought a 2006 320D M Sport from Brighton Chandlers three months ago, I've had a few problems with it, latest being

- everytime I fill the tank up there is a lot of Diesel leak
- There is severe clutch judder

At the end of the day you bought a car, you have had problems with it from day one (stick to that!) and demand they are sorted.

It really is that simple.

BMW have to prove that you have caused the problems and not the person who has owned it for the 5 years previous to you.
They sold you an 'approved used car' that has in fact not met their criteria.

Speak to your sales guy.