[ENINTY]

So I've grown tired of all the bad press the Volt is getting; especially on Fox News, so I decided to test drive one.

All I can say is Wow! I never expected it to be such a nice car to drive. It's no sports sedan mind you, but for the purpose it is built for, it is well executed and effective; it doesn’t suck. In electric mode it is just so smooth and quiet, it makes ICE-propulsion cars seem so last century. I drove it about 20 or so miles on some nice twisty back-country roads in Virginia. It wallows a bit on full suspension compression in high-speed bumps on turns, but it holds its own; nothing a good aftermarket suspension tuning couldn’t fix. For a daily driver with high MPG capability, I could definitely live with it (and I've owned a 3-Series since 1988). The ergonomics would take a bit getting used to, but it is a nice car.

I posted a few months ago, that the F30 is not going to fill the bill for me as a replacement for my E90. I’d like to preserve my E90 now that BMW has abandoned the I-6 in naturally aspirated form. I’ve considered a Ford Focus as a daily driver, even considered an ATS as a replacement for my E90, but the Volt may by my solution. Keep the ’06 325i (currently at 167,000 miles), rebuild the suspension (already have the parts), rebuild the driver’s seat (just did last week) and keep it as my last BMW. Use the Volt for my 160 mile daily round trip commuter.

Just wanted to share my experience.

[krnboy817]

i think the bad rep the volt is getting is and are from where the car stands at the momentin the market. although someone has to push the envelope at some point for tech to grow, but the vehicle is still yet a mere inconvenience since there are no charge stations available like a gas station. plus, you still use gas engine as range extender so in reality it feels like you would be just as good as running a small displacement engine or even a NEW diesel engine.

for me personally, the gripe is about being "green" or "efficient" perception that this car gives to the public and has wrapped it self with. yes, anyone can advertise anything in anyway, but is the perception also the reality it unfolds? i beg to differ because you're burning fossil fuel to...

1) Lithium ion production
2) battery production
3) freight/shipping battery(s)
4) energizing the new manufacturing process
5) you still pump gas.

6) battery replacement... and the process it takes to trash it.

if 40+ mpg and decent handling is what is enough to justify this car for someone and gives a valuable reason to be built, then i would say why not a give an early to mid 90s civic a try? plus, one costs over $38k and one costs less than $10k, but if a styling and the looks is a factor then i rest my case (but i doubt its the style and the looks).

second is the tax credit voucher, why not give the price a break instead? im sure some dealers are by taking your voucher, but im sure tax credit means, in a single fiscal year, you would have to earn or make enough and pay taxes over the amount which that would qualify for the return. simply, 3500 credit doesn't mean 3500 cash from IRS.

lastly the price point this car put it self at brings not only prius as its competition, but every other car in that range which includes BMW, AUDI, ACURA, HONDA, MB, HYUNDAI, MAZDA etc... etc... so with most consumers trying to push their $ to the limit these days, it needs to offer more (value and not just bit higher mpg) or be more (much more) affordable, heck a base F30 328i gets 38mpg now days. oh and how long would it take for one to offset the price difference of the car with the money they save at the pump? 10yrs? 20yrs? perhaps longer since the 40mpg is the new 30 mpg pretty much across the board. either way its pointless calculation since average U.S. consumers flip their cars with in 5 yrs of ownership.

just thought i share my thoughts.

[M3_WC]

Originally Posted by krnboy817

i think the bad rep the volt is getting is and are from where the car stands at the momentin the market. although someone has to push the envelope at some point for tech to grow, but the vehicle is still yet a mere inconvenience since there are no charge stations available like a gas station. plus, you still use gas engine as range extender so in reality it feels like you would be just as good as running a small displacement engine or even a NEW diesel engine.

Most people don't drive over 40 miles everyday. They can basically use electric to get to and from work and charge overnight. I have read of owners still having the same tank of gas in, as when the car was purchased new. If long trips are needed, even road trips. The car is capable, due to the gas generator. The car gets close to 40 mpg on pure gas.

The Volt is the only plug-in worth a damn. The Leaf is absolutely useless, you have to own another car along with it.

Originally Posted by krnboy817

second is the tax credit voucher, why not give the price a break instead? im sure some dealers are by taking your voucher, but im sure tax credit means, in a single fiscal year, you would have to earn or make enough and pay taxes over the amount which that would qualify for the return. simply, 3500 credit doesn't mean 3500 cash from IRS.

Tax credit is $7500. The best deal is the 36 month lease, has the tax credit built in. $350/month, not bad.

Some states also have credits on top of the Federal $7500.

[M3_WC]

Originally Posted by ENINTY

So I've grown tired of all the bad press the Volt is getting; especially on Fox News, so I decided to test drive one.

All I can say is Wow! I never expected it to be such a nice car to drive. It's no sports sedan mind you, but for the purpose it is built for, it is well executed and effective; it doesn’t suck. In electric mode it is just so smooth and quiet, it makes ICE-propulsion cars seem so last century. I drove it about 20 or so miles on some nice twisty back-country roads in Virginia. It wallows a bit on full suspension compression in high-speed bumps on turns, but it holds its own; nothing a good aftermarket suspension tuning couldn’t fix. For a daily driver with high MPG capability, I could definitely live with it (and I've owned a 3-Series since 1988). The ergonomics would take a bit getting used to, but it is a nice car.

It actually is quite impressive. I don't think GM has done a good job of explaining the car and its tech. There is nothing on the road like it.

[Cdnrockies]

Maybe check out this thread.

Government Motors ftl....again.

Overpriced, underperforming waste.

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=657056

[Cdnrockies]

Originally Posted by M3_WC

It actually is quite impressive. I don't think GM has done a good job of explaining the car and its tech. There is nothing on the road like it.

Because nobody wants it. (See other post/thread)

[M3_WC]

Originally Posted by Cdnrockies

Because nobody wants it. (See other post/thread)

They sold over a 1,000 units last month.

That is more than multiple models BMW sells. The Volt outsold the 1-series, Z4, 6-series, 7-series, X6.

[Cdnrockies]

Originally Posted by M3_WC

They sold over a 1,000 units last month.

That is more than multiple models BMW sells. The Volt outsold the 1-series, Z4, 6-series, 7-series, X6.

Considering the billion plus $ that the gov't invested on what was supposed to be a vehicle of mass appeal it is a failure. It doesn't offer the "green" benefits it promises between the limited range and the net negative impact due to the batteries. It doesn't offer performance. Charging stations are limited. Design is questionable. Simply not enough car at a time when nobody was really asking for it.

[Solonng]

umm, u guys do know that in order to generate electric, you must use oil right?? so how is driving a volt reduces oil consumption?

[Solonng]

No offense but for $40k, i can buy a nice 911 turbo and have more fun than i would in a Volt..

[M3_WC]

Originally Posted by Cdnrockies

Considering the billion plus $ that the gov't invested on what was supposed to be a vehicle of mass appeal it is a failure.

Really, did you do the math. Is that how much R&D cost. LOL.

Originally Posted by Cdnrockies

Charging stations are limited. Design is questionable. Simply not enough car at a time when nobody was really asking for it.

You don't need charging stations. That is the whole point of the car. This isn't a Leaf, getting home is not an issue.

Originally Posted by Cdnrockies

It doesn't offer the "green" benefits it promises between the limited range and the net negative impact due to the batteries.

It has unlimited range, due to the gas backup. The 40 mile electric range will cost roughly $1.50.

[ENINTY]

Originally Posted by krnboy817

i think the bad rep the volt is getting is and are from where the car stands at the momentin the market. although someone has to push the envelope at some point for tech to grow, but the vehicle is still yet a mere inconvenience since there are no charge stations available like a gas station. plus, you still use gas engine as range extender so in reality it feels like you would be just as good as running a small displacement engine or even a NEW diesel engine.

for me personally, the gripe is about being "green" or "efficient" perception that this car gives to the public and has wrapped it self with. yes, anyone can advertise anything in anyway, but is the perception also the reality it unfolds? i beg to differ because you're burning fossil fuel to...

1) Lithium ion production
2) battery production
3) freight/shipping battery(s)
4) energizing the new manufacturing process
5) you still pump gas.

6) battery replacement... and the process it takes to trash it.

if 40+ mpg and decent handling is what is enough to justify this car for someone and gives a valuable reason to be built, then i would say why not a give an early to mid 90s civic a try? plus, one costs over $38k and one costs less than $10k, but if a styling and the looks is a factor then i rest my case (but i doubt its the style and the looks).

second is the tax credit voucher, why not give the price a break instead? im sure some dealers are by taking your voucher, but im sure tax credit means, in a single fiscal year, you would have to earn or make enough and pay taxes over the amount which that would qualify for the return. simply, 3500 credit doesn't mean 3500 cash from IRS.

lastly the price point this car put it self at brings not only prius as its competition, but every other car in that range which includes BMW, AUDI, ACURA, HONDA, MB, HYUNDAI, MAZDA etc... etc... so with most consumers trying to push their $ to the limit these days, it needs to offer more (value and not just bit higher mpg) or be more (much more) affordable, heck a base F30 328i gets 38mpg now days. oh and how long would it take for one to offset the price difference of the car with the money they save at the pump? 10yrs? 20yrs? perhaps longer since the 40mpg is the new 30 mpg pretty much across the board. either way its pointless calculation since average U.S. consumers flip their cars with in 5 yrs of ownership.

just thought i share my thoughts.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. You have some good points and we can debate them as some have no answer as they point to future issues that have time on their side for technology to solve.

But my reasoning for considering a volt is purely on gas savings for my daily 160 mile commute. I'm not a greenie by any consideration (look at some of my posts regarding the carbon fiber 7-series thread); and I also own a Hummer H3T. I spend X dollars a month on fuel. The Volt would almost give me half my trip back using no gasoline and only an estimated $3.00 to travel 70 miles of it, with 90 miles commuting at approximately 37 MPG, which is 10 MPG better than my E90 gets on average (and I've kept strict fuel consumption records on every tank of gas since mile 3 so I know I get an average 27 MPG). This of course means charging the Volt at work during the day, which is something I need to discuss with my company. I can install the 240V charger at home myself. However claiming the new F30 328i gets 38 MPG is a bit of a stretch. Yes, I’m sure one could get better than the 36 MPG highway rating in some perfect conditions (weather, traffic, and terrain), but for my commute, I’d might expect an average of 30 MPG. I’ve not really seen where turbo engines get really much better fuel consumption in real-world driving situations.

One of the concerns I have is something you brought up which was battery replacement. This issue has kept me away from considering other hybrids (I've considered them since the original Honda Insight came to market in 1999) such as the Ford Fusion, which is also an excellent car as I found when I test drove it in 2009. But I've been studying the issue of battery replacement. It appears the batteries rarely fail and not need replacement over the operating life of the vehicle. From studies I read on the SAE website, in one instance Ford, who is long-term, real-world testing their hybrid drive system in taxi cabs in San Francisco has only one (1) battery cell go bad in something like 10,000 cells in use in a combine million mile use (I forget the exact details, but it is on the order of that magnitude). I know a few people with long-term Prius (Prium?) who have had no battery failures; one is a 1st gen Prius with just over 100,000 miles on it. So the concern over premature battery replacement has become less of a concern on my part.

A new Volt is far better in comfort and reliability than an early ‘90s civic (that would have close to 200,000 miles on it assuming it was driven an average of 10,000 miles a year); and where would I get one with sub 5,000 miles to use as fresh a long-term daily commuter. I’d rather just run the wheels off my E90; it’s already a worthless used car with 167K on the clock.

I think the best takeaway here is, discovering the Volt is really worth consideration as a car for a lot of people. If it is true most drivers drive less than 70 miles a day, the Volt fills the bill as an electric-only vehicle, and can work quite well as an ICE-powered car when needed.

[Artmasterx]

Originally Posted by Solonng

umm, u guys do know that in order to generate electric, you must use oil right?? so how is driving a volt reduces oil consumption?

I am not a Volt fanboy, but let me correct this:

- Electricity comes from these main sources, and the mix varies by region: coal, natural gas, nuclear, hydroelectric, wind, other renewables

Essentially zero oil is used for electricity generation. So lighter components of oil may go to make a small amount of natural gas, but that is typically used on-site by refineries and petrochem businesses. Hydrocarbons (coal, nat gas) do make up a large portion of the US energy production. But you are not competing with oil, which is what we are very dependent on from an import basis... we have lots of natural gas and coal in the US.

Centralized production will always be more efficient than an IC engine in a car because it can and is specifically designed to run optimally all the time.
- car engine average efficiency is ~20%
- combined cycle plants are 50-60%
- coal power plants are ~33%
- co-genenation plants have the potential to be up to 80%

On a pure fossil fuel-to-road efficiency, it's hard for engines to compete with grid power, even with transmission losses.

You can certainly debate the benefits when considering a complete life-cycle analysis, but this is really quite difficult to do accurately. From a CO2 perspective, it is not entirely clear either unless you can do CO2 capture at the power plants, then electricity can be much better from a CO2 perspective.

[flyinb501]

Originally Posted by ENINTY

So I've grown tired of all the bad press the Volt is getting; especially on Fox News, so I decided to test drive one.

All I can say is Wow! I never expected it to be such a nice car to drive. It's no sports sedan mind you, but for the purpose it is built for, it is well executed and effective; it doesn’t suck. In electric mode it is just so smooth and quiet, it makes ICE-propulsion cars seem so last century. I drove it about 20 or so miles on some nice twisty back-country roads in Virginia. It wallows a bit on full suspension compression in high-speed bumps on turns, but it holds its own; nothing a good aftermarket suspension tuning couldn’t fix. For a daily driver with high MPG capability, I could definitely live with it (and I've owned a 3-Series since 1988). The ergonomics would take a bit getting used to, but it is a nice car.

I posted a few months ago, that the F30 is not going to fill the bill for me as a replacement for my E90. I’d like to preserve my E90 now that BMW has abandoned the I-6 in naturally aspirated form. I’ve considered a Ford Focus as a daily driver, even considered an ATS as a replacement for my E90, but the Volt may by my solution. Keep the ’06 325i (currently at 167,000 miles), rebuild the suspension (already have the parts), rebuild the driver’s seat (just did last week) and keep it as my last BMW. Use the Volt for my 160 mile daily round trip commuter.

Just wanted to share my experience.

Speak with your wallet then and buy one. Come back and post pics when you do. I doubt you will. I don't see many people with common sense wasting $40k on this car to "save money on gas" . Why not just save yourself $20k right off the bat and buy a new Civic, Golf, Cruze, Focus, etc?

[krnboy817]

Originally Posted by ENINTY

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. You have some good points and we can debate them as some have no answer as they point to future issues that have time on their side for technology to solve.

But my reasoning for considering a volt is purely on gas savings for my daily 160 mile commute. I'm not a greenie by any consideration (look at some of my posts regarding the carbon fiber 7-series thread); and I also own a Hummer H3T. I spend X dollars a month on fuel. The Volt would almost give me half my trip back using no gasoline and only an estimated $3.00 to travel 70 miles of it, with 90 miles commuting at approximately 37 MPG, which is 10 MPG better than my E90 gets on average (and I've kept strict fuel consumption records on every tank of gas since mile 3 so I know I get an average 27 MPG). This of course means charging the Volt at work during the day, which is something I need to discuss with my company. I can install the 240V charger at home myself. However claiming the new F30 328i gets 38 MPG is a bit of a stretch. Yes, I’m sure one could get better than the 36 MPG highway rating in some perfect conditions (weather, traffic, and terrain), but for my commute, I’d might expect an average of 30 MPG. I’ve not really seen where turbo engines get really much better fuel consumption in real-world driving situations.

One of the concerns I have is something you brought up which was battery replacement. This issue has kept me away from considering other hybrids (I've considered them since the original Honda Insight came to market in 1999) such as the Ford Fusion, which is also an excellent car as I found when I test drove it in 2009. But I've been studying the issue of battery replacement. It appears the batteries rarely fail and not need replacement over the operating life of the vehicle. From studies I read on the SAE website, in one instance Ford, who is long-term, real-world testing their hybrid drive system in taxi cabs in San Francisco has only one (1) battery cell go bad in something like 10,000 cells in use in a combine million mile use (I forget the exact details, but it is on the order of that magnitude). I know a few people with long-term Prius (Prium?) who have had no battery failures; one is a 1st gen Prius with just over 100,000 miles on it. So the concern over premature battery replacement has become less of a concern on my part.

A new Volt is far better in comfort and reliability than an early ‘90s civic (that would have close to 200,000 miles on it assuming it was driven an average of 10,000 miles a year); and where would I get one with sub 5,000 miles to use as fresh a long-term daily commuter. I’d rather just run the wheels off my E90; it’s already a worthless used car with 167K on the clock.

I think the best takeaway here is, discovering the Volt is really worth consideration as a car for a lot of people. If it is true most drivers drive less than 70 miles a day, the Volt fills the bill as an electric-only vehicle, and can work quite well as an ICE-powered car when needed.

got a good point, driving a volt compared to a H3 would definitely be a cost saving option... no doubt. a that rate of comparison, it would make sense that the volt would in turn make up for cost of the car from the fuel saving(s). i agree.

but what i do not agree is at volt's price range which is, in $30k ~ $40k it does not justify when compared to its competitors like when its compared to H3. for me i wouldn't mind buying an old civic and even replace the engine if miles are too high... but thats not for everyone so i understand. but i hope you got the idea of what i am trying to say, which is there are alternatives out there if milage is one's pure concern.

i agree EPA ratings sometimes seems like "hope it gets" and other times "underrated" varying from models and manufacturers... but gives a relative idea of what to expect. i do not expect f30 to get 38mpg but i do expect 34 - 36mpg and with those kind of numbers, volt make less of sense. to me i think volt would make sense if it ran on water and electric or get 10 - 15 miles better than 40 mpg'ers. on a side note, i think volt's cabin/interior is very subjective when it comes to being nice and not generalized opinion that some of its competitors might have attained already.

far as batteries go, 14% green house gas is from transportation, and 27% are from manufacturing, adding additional battery production certainly will not decrease the 27%. and even if battery lasts 100,000+ miles you will have to factor in breakdowns, wrecks, lemons, etc. america alone is pouring 2 billion lithium ion battery per year into wastelands... and i think volt will just add to that since there is no profitable gain in recycling lithium ion batteries. im not an environmentalist, but i am interested in commodity production and its pro and cons.

fwiw, i do not even consider nissan leaf as a car nor in any of my comparison factors. so with that in mind, since i am here bored at work did some math. correct me if i am wrong btw.

variables: fuel price= $3.55(regular) fuel capacity= 14 gallon charging= 3.00

H3(9mpg) - volt(37mpg) = 28mpg x $3.55= $99.4 in savings - 3.00 = $96.4

so if volt and h3 travels same amount of distance with 14g then you would be saving $96.4 per tank.

elantra(33mpg) - volt(37mpg) = 4mpg x 3.55 = $14.2 in savings - 3.00= $11.2

so if we use hyundai elantra then the savings are only $11.2 per tank

cost difference of the volt from elantra $14k est. and it would take 1,273 fill ups to make up the difference plus you'll have to factor in depreciation and interest of the 14k for the length of the loan.

i appreciate what the volt is trying to do but just like so many brilliant ideas, i just dont see it working/applying in real world.

plus there are diesels out there too that are great milage per gallon as well for less or equal amount of money.

[ENINTY]

Originally Posted by krnboy817

got a good point, driving a volt compared to a H3 would definitely be a cost saving option... no doubt. a that rate of comparison, it would make sense that the volt would in turn make up for cost of the car from the fuel saving(s). i agree.

but what i do not agree is at volt's price range which is, in $30k ~ $40k it does not justify when compared to its competitors like when its compared to H3. for me i wouldn't mind buying an old civic and even replace the engine if miles are too high... but thats not for everyone so i understand. but i hope you got the idea of what i am trying to say, which is there are alternatives out there if milage is one's pure concern.

i agree EPA ratings sometimes seems like "hope it gets" and other times "underrated" varying from models and manufacturers... but gives a relative idea of what to expect. i do not expect f30 to get 38mpg but i do expect 34 - 36mpg and with those kind of numbers, volt make less of sense. to me i think volt would make sense if it ran on water and electric or get 10 - 15 miles better than 40 mpg'ers. on a side note, i think volt's cabin/interior is very subjective when it comes to being nice and not generalized opinion that some of its competitors might have attained already.

far as batteries go, 14% green house gas is from transportation, and 27% are from manufacturing, adding additional battery production certainly will not decrease the 27%. and even if battery lasts 100,000+ miles you will have to factor in breakdowns, wrecks, lemons, etc. america alone is pouring 2 billion lithium ion battery per year into wastelands... and i think volt will just add to that since there is no profitable gain in recycling lithium ion batteries. im not an environmentalist, but i am interested in commodity production and its pro and cons.

fwiw, i do not even consider nissan leaf as a car nor in any of my comparison factors. so with that in mind, since i am here bored at work did some math. correct me if i am wrong btw.

variables: fuel price= $3.55(regular) fuel capacity= 14 gallon charging= 3.00

H3(9mpg) - volt(37mpg) = 28mpg x $3.55= $99.4 in savings - 3.00 = $96.4

so if volt and h3 travels same amount of distance with 14g then you would be saving $96.4 per tank.

elantra(33mpg) - volt(37mpg) = 4mpg x 3.55 = $14.2 in savings - 3.00= $11.2

so if we use hyundai elantra then the savings are only $11.2 per tank

cost difference of the volt from elantra $14k est. and it would take 1,273 fill ups to make up the difference plus you'll have to factor in depreciation and interest of the 14k for the length of the loan.

i appreciate what the volt is trying to do but just like so many brilliant ideas, i just dont see it working/applying in real world.

plus there are diesels out there too that are great milage per gallon as well for less or equal amount of money.

Not sure why you've brought my H3T into the discussion as part of your mathematical comparison. My consideration of the Volt has nothing to do with my onership of the H3T, which averages 15.8 MPG by the way, not 9. The Volt will replace my E90 (at 27 MPG average) as my 160 mile per day daily driver. The H3T is used for running the fire roads in West Virginia and western Virginia (and getting out of our property when the river floods). So my quick calculations show a savings in fuel of $2,500 per year for my commute as compared to my E90. So when I'll have time I'll go do the math for comparing a Volt vs. new F30 328i (which is what I'd replace my E90 with). The Volt will be less expensive (purchase price) than the F30 and get 92 MPGe vs. the 328i at maybe 30 MPG.

[ENINTY]

Originally Posted by flyinb501

Speak with your wallet then and buy one. Come back and post pics when you do. I doubt you will. I don't see many people with common sense wasting $40k on this car to "save money on gas" . Why not just save yourself $20k right off the bat and buy a new Civic, Golf, Cruze, Focus, etc?

I've not yet worked all the numbers. Been doing taxes as a first priority. But if I were in need of replacing the E90 right now (say I total it hitting a deer - a real possibility where I live), the Volt is a top contender at the moment. It compares in purchase price to an F30 328i (less actually with tax incentives) and will get better fuel mileage than the F30.

And I've actually thought of a Focus too (did a thread on it a few months ago). The new Fusion hybrid is also a consideration.

[krnboy817]

Originally Posted by ENINTY

Not sure why you've brought my H3T into the discussion as part of your mathematical comparison. My consideration of the Volt has nothing to do with my onership of the H3T, which averages 15.8 MPG by the way, not 9. The Volt will replace my E90 (at 27 MPG average) as my 160 mile per day daily driver. The H3T is used for running the fire roads in West Virginia and western Virginia (and getting out of our property when the river floods). So my quick calculations show a savings in fuel of $2,500 per year for my commute as compared to my E90. So when I'll have time I'll go do the math for comparing a Volt vs. new F30 328i (which is what I'd replace my E90 with). The Volt will be less expensive (purchase price) than the F30 and get 92 MPGe vs. the 328i at maybe 30 MPG.

But my reasoning for considering a volt is purely on gas savings for my daily 160 mile commute. I'm not a greenie by any consideration (look at some of my posts regarding the carbon fiber 7-series thread); and I also own a Hummer H3T. I spend X dollars a month on fuel. The Volt would almost give me half my trip back using no gasoline and only an estimated $3.00 to travel 70 miles of it, with 90 miles commuting at approximately 37 MPG,

this is why it was compared to your h3. and plus it was a comparison also to show both side of spectrum and not just gas sipper to gas sipper.

anyhow no one is here to change your mind but here to merely express what they think about the subject.

from they way it sounds, you're convinced on liking the volt... and im sure you'll like the volt when you purchase one.

[ENINTY]

Originally Posted by krnboy817

this is why it was compared to your h3. and plus it was a comparison also to show both side of spectrum and not just gas sipper to gas sipper.

anyhow no one is here to change your mind but here to merely express what they think about the subject.

from they way it sounds, you're convinced on liking the volt... and im sure you'll like the volt when you purchase one.

Not to get picky with your math, but you account for the $3.00 electric fill for the Volt's battery but you don't factor in that the Volt travels 70 miles for that $3.00; so it changes your calculations. In any case, the volt would save me $2,500 a year in fuel costs at $3.89 per gallon (super where I live). Move the price per gallon to 5 or 6 dollars, then that is serious money. But right now, with my E90 paid off it makes no sense for me to buy a Volt unless I decide I want to preserve my E90. At the rate I accumulate miles on it, I will be at 250,000 miles in August 2014. 250,000 miles is my target mileage for replacment of the E90.

[ska///235i]

anyone here own a hybrid or electric car?
how reliable are they really?