[Pourky]

So I finally got my car dyno'd. Was pretty happy with the results when it came to the the torque numbers. But I was curious.. how come there is such a distinct differential in HP to TQ numbers? Most post I see from others that got similar mods, they put down about 370-380whp and 385-400wtq.

But my numbers where much more off... 340whp and 420wtq. Any reason behind this? The dyno guy that I was talking to said I am not running enough fuel with the tuning I got and my AFR should be more around 12.00 but if you notice in the picture my AFR is about 14.00 till 4700rpm then it starts getting into the 12.00

Is there anything that can be done to fix this problem? Would I have to get a proper tune with more fuel to get more whp?

Any help would be appreciate it.





I am running a JB4 Map 5 tunning, catless DPs, Stage 2 DCI, and Full Turner exhaust with no cats. I was not running with the ETS Chargepipe at the time. I am boosting about 15lbs PSI all the way through with my mapping.

Thanks!

[sear]

Could be octane related if you are getting timing drops at higher rpms. Have you logged the car?

[mrbillytalent]

Hp is calculated by your cars rpm's and torques.

[JamesM3M5]

Intake ports clean? Higher HP needs good airflow at higher RPM, and carbon buildup can cause this.

AFRs - don't worry about the "traditional" logic of AFRs for port injected turbo motors. Our DI engines can sustain much higher AFRs in the lower rev ranges. That's what the original DME targets, anyway.

[Pourky]

Originally Posted by sear

Could be octane related if you are getting timing drops at higher rpms. Have you logged the car?

I do apologize, I am new to the dyno/performance moding world. By logging your car, do you mean if I connected my JB4 USB to my laptop and logged numbers??

Originally Posted by JamesM3M5

Intake ports clean? Higher HP needs good airflow at higher RPM, and carbon buildup can cause this.

AFRs - don't worry about the "traditional" logic of AFRs for port injected turbo motors. Our DI engines can sustain much higher AFRs in the lower rev ranges. That's what the original DME targets, anyway.

Actually, come to think of it, they did mention that my intake filter looked pretty dirty and that maybe I should clean that up a little. What other areas can I clean to get rid of any carbon build up if there is any.

Also, when it comes to the AFRs... from your understanding it looks like I don't have much to worry about. When looking at my results do I have nothing to be concerned about?

Have others had this problem of having dramatic difference in HP/TQ numbers?? Thanks again!

[JamesM3M5]

The intake ports - down in the head leading to the back of the intake valves - of the N54 engines are known to get crudded up with thick carbon deposits. The crankcase vents into the intake, and the oil can build up into carbon deposits. Normally on any other engine, the fuel spraying from the injectors in the intake runners cleans the valves. Every single BMW engine I've ever torn down or had the intake off has clean intake ports. BUT since the N54 is a direct injection engine - the injectors shoot fuel directly into the combustion chamber (hence the term Direct Injection), there is no fuel to wash the intake ports clean.

Those carbon deposits rob top end HP. I felt the same thing - although not dyno proven - after I bought my car. It ran out of steam (stock, no tune) above 5500. After cleaning (and new plugs), the engine ran past 6k just fine.

[sear]

Originally Posted by Pourky

I do apologize, I am new to the dyno/performance moding world. By logging your car, do you mean if I connected my JB4 USB to my laptop and logged numbers??



Actually, come to think of it, they did mention that my intake filter looked pretty dirty and that maybe I should clean that up a little. What other areas can I clean to get rid of any carbon build up if there is any.

Also, when it comes to the AFRs... from your understanding it looks like I don't have much to worry about. When looking at my results do I have nothing to be concerned about?

Have others had this problem of having dramatic difference in HP/TQ numbers?? Thanks again!

By logging I was referring to capturing Boost, timing, etc with a laptop corrected while performing a 3rd gear pull to redline. I actually think that James's advice is more likely the Cause, but a log is always a good fist step regardless. This phenomenon does happen at altitude since the turbo's run out of efficient airflow quicker at altitude than at Sea level. Hence the reason I believe the airflow restriction theory is a good one.

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

I dont know 100% but I think the JB4 normally runs those AFR values. I think PROcede and Cobb run a little more rich. However, that has nothing to do with your WHP up top as up top your AFR is within reason.

Without a baseline the dyno can simply be a low reading dyno and you should not compare to other peoples cars as they may have different mods, conditions, and on a different dyno.

Logs are an important aspect of engine safety and health.

You should always log your vehicle from time to time and especially on a dyno to ensure your air fuel, boost and ignition are within reason. If you dont know how to read them you can always post them here or send them to your tuner for review and advice.

[Pourky]

Originally Posted by JamesM3M5

The intake ports - down in the head leading to the back of the intake valves - of the N54 engines are known to get crudded up with thick carbon deposits. The crankcase vents into the intake, and the oil can build up into carbon deposits. Normally on any other engine, the fuel spraying from the injectors in the intake runners cleans the valves. Every single BMW engine I've ever torn down or had the intake off has clean intake ports. BUT since the N54 is a direct injection engine - the injectors shoot fuel directly into the combustion chamber (hence the term Direct Injection), there is no fuel to wash the intake ports clean.

Those carbon deposits rob top end HP. I felt the same thing - although not dyno proven - after I bought my car. It ran out of steam (stock, no tune) above 5500. After cleaning (and new plugs), the engine ran past 6k just fine.

Hmm.. I might be able to do that. I wish I knew some shops in the area that be willing to do something like this. Unfortunately I don't have the tools to be able to take apart the pieces needed to complete the cleaning of carbon build up. =/

Originally Posted by sear

By logging I was referring to capturing Boost, timing, etc with a laptop corrected while performing a 3rd gear pull to redline. I actually think that James's advice is more likely the Cause, but a log is always a good fist step regardless. This phenomenon does happen at altitude since the turbo's run out of efficient airflow quicker at altitude than at Sea level. Hence the reason I believe the airflow restriction theory is a good one.

Originally Posted by Jeff@topgearsolutions

I dont know 100% but I think the JB4 normally runs those AFR values. I think PROcede and Cobb run a little more rich. However, that has nothing to do with your WHP up top as up top your AFR is within reason.

Without a baseline the dyno can simply be a low reading dyno and you should not compare to other peoples cars as they may have different mods, conditions, and on a different dyno.

Logs are an important aspect of engine safety and health.

You should always log your vehicle from time to time and especially on a dyno to ensure your air fuel, boost and ignition are within reason. If you dont know how to read them you can always post them here or send them to your tuner for review and advice.

Thanks for the info... good to know. Glad to hear the AFR is within reason. That gives me peace of mind. Thank you!

[Pourky]

What would the costs typically be for that type of work at a local shop...? Unfortunately I don't have the proper tools to do that type of cleaning myself, so if there is carbon build up hopefully it will help can cleaner airflow through.

I am really looking to get my horsepower up a little for that top end curve instead of having it just straighten out after 5000rpm. I just don't understand why I am putting down 340whp when others are easily in the 375+whp range. Thanks!

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Originally Posted by Pourky

What would the costs typically be for that type of work at a local shop...? Unfortunately I don't have the proper tools to do that type of cleaning myself, so if there is carbon build up hopefully it will help can cleaner airflow through.

I am really looking to get my horsepower up a little for that top end curve instead of having it just straighten out after 5000rpm. I just don't understand why I am putting down 340whp when others are easily in the 375+whp range. Thanks!

As mentioned previously, all dynos read differently. It is important to grasp this concept and understand your car might be running fine. IF you go to another dyno you might see 375WHP.

This is why we mention to dyno a baseline (a run without any modifications) so you can see how much WHP you gained from stock.

Some cars stock dyno 245WHP while others dyno 285WHP(they both have the same power though they are just on different dynos). So instead of using the peak number as a basis of how well the car is performing you use the delta (difference between stock and modified power). So if a car gained 80WHP from stock on a low reading dyno it would only show 325WHP while on another dyno it may show 365 but it started at 285 stock.

The important number is the delta, the difference between stock WHP and modified WHP.

It is also necessary to do a log of your vehicle to read the boost, AFR, Ignition, and intake air temperatures to ensure you are running correctly.

I wouldnt spend any money or lose any sleep until you log your vehicle.

Logging:
Safe stretch of road, 3rd gear, Wide open throttle from 2500 RPM to Redline, logging the above parameters.

Looking at your modification list, it looks like you dont have an intercooler, so your logs would likely show a large increase in intake air temperatures. This can hinder top end performance. However, without a log we are just guessing.

Use your tools at hand to your advantage. Take the next step, and log

[BMWsky]

Originally Posted by m3alabama

wow that is a lot of mods to hit 340 hp. M3 out of the box hits 350hp. I had no clue all these 335's that were "killing the m3's with a tune" actually needed to go through this extensive of mods

That's why he posted here, he's concerned by the low HP number while running those mods.


Stick around and read a few threads. There's one circulating where a tune (had for around $500) and a DCI (had for about $80 or so) is putting down 415hp. I'd say that's pretty cost effective.

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Originally Posted by m3alabama

wow that is a lot of mods to hit 340 hp. M3 out of the box hits 350hp. I had no clue all these 335's that were "killing the m3's with a tune" actually needed to go through this extensive of mods

I wouldn't judge to quick. Any of the basic tunes, JB4, PROcede, or Cobb can outrun the new M3. The WHP of this vehicle is simply on a low reading dyno, or not running correctly. The thread starter needs to send us logs to confirm anything.

The more I look at the dyno the more I think something isn't right with the car. We need to see more information.

[BMW_Belgier]

Originally Posted by m3alabama

wow that is a lot of mods to hit 340 hp. M3 out of the box hits 350hp. I had no clue all these 335's that were "killing the m3's with a tune" actually needed to go through this extensive of mods

I don't like your Attitude here in this forum

First your bragging with some race gas what everybody knows its just BS with an M3.

Now your having an attitude because your M3 is so good and we are just some loosers with a tune

At OP: I wish you luck with finding the problem!

[R1000K3]

Originally Posted by m3alabama

wow that is a lot of mods to hit 340 hp. M3 out of the box hits 350hp. I had no clue all these 335's that were "killing the m3's with a tune" actually needed to go through this extensive of mods

The M3 is a proper car, but it only take a few seconds and a couple of dollars to provide a 335 with a lot juicier power curve.

1. Open the hood
2. Locate the TMAP sensor and connect at cheap circuit (e.g. JB+) that offsets the boost signal to ECU.
3. Done

With a proper tune and support mods the 335 is about 100 whp ahead of the M3.

[Pourky]

Originally Posted by Jeff@topgearsolutions

Logging:
Safe stretch of road, 3rd gear, Wide open throttle from 2500 RPM to Redline, logging the above parameters.

Looking at your modification list, it looks like you dont have an intercooler, so your logs would likely show a large increase in intake air temperatures. This can hinder top end performance. However, without a log we are just guessing.

Use your tools at hand to your advantage. Take the next step, and log

Thanks for your input and response. I will go ahead and do some logging and post it back on here when I do, hopefully that will give a better read out of my cars situation.

Originally Posted by m3alabama

wow that is a lot of mods to hit 340 hp. M3 out of the box hits 350hp. I had no clue all these 335's that were "killing the m3's with a tune" actually needed to go through this extensive of mods

Not even going to waste my time with someone like you... haha! Putting down 420wtq will do enough damage alone, against your M3 or whoevers.