[theDude]

I've heard references to one stock 335 being significantly faster than another stock 335, but never an explanation. Personally, I was thinking that it might be the result of several key components falling within the upper threshold of their spec'd attributes...

Any ideas?

[jadeddjay]

could be that... or it could be combinations of elevation, temperature, and humidity

[Revlis]

Simple, if a Manufacterer knows that a particular car is heading to a magazine for a day of testing many will "Tweek" said car or bike to give it that little "Oomph" that might be missing otherwise.

It's easy enough with todays software to optimize and tune a particular unit for a magazine. Extra .5lb of boost, etc...

A car that is suspected of being thusly loved on by the OEM is called a "ringer".

[A418t81]

Don't you have a TT?

[andrew20195]

Originally Posted by theDude

I've heard references to one stock 335 being significantly faster than another stock 335, but never an explanation. Personally, I was thinking that it might be the result of several key components falling within the upper threshold of their spec'd attributes...

Any ideas?

"Ringers" that end up in magazines are most likely tweaked a bit by the manufacturers, but I think you're referring to regular production cars. In that case, you are correct. Even with tight quality control, there is some variation in tolerances, unavoidable in mass production. It would not be cost effective for the manufacturer to "blueprint" every single engine (unless it is an expensive limited production model with hand-built everything). As a result some cars are faster than others, as you said, by certain tolerances lining up just right.

I would suspect that the range of power variation would follow some sort of bell curve. I once read that 25% of engines would be significantly below spec, 50% would be near spec, and 25% would be above, but that seems a little excessive to me, and 64% of statistics are just made up anyway.

[achien]

Originally Posted by theDude

I've heard references to one stock 335 being significantly faster than another stock 335, but never an explanation. Personally, I was thinking that it might be the result of several key components falling within the upper threshold of their spec'd attributes...

Any ideas?

Poor QC...

[theDude]

Originally Posted by Revlis

Simple, if a Manufacterer knows that a particular car is heading to a magazine for a day of testing many will "Tweek" said car or bike to give it that little "Oomph" that might be missing otherwise.

It's easy enough with todays software to optimize and tune a particular unit for a magazine. Extra .5lb of boost, etc...

A car that is suspected of being thusly loved on by the OEM is called a "ringer".

Ah yes...well, I was thinking of personal cars and not edmunds test vehicles

[hool97]

Originally Posted by andrew20195

"Ringers" that end up in magazines are most likely tweaked a bit by the manufacturers, but I think you're referring to regular production cars. In that case, you are correct. Even with tight quality control, there is some variation in tolerances, unavoidable in mass production. It would not be cost effective for the manufacturer to "blueprint" every single engine (unless it is an expensive limited production model with hand-built everything). As a result some cars are faster than others, as you said, by certain tolerances lining up just right.

I would suspect that the range of power variation would follow some sort of bell curve. I once read that 25% of engines would be significantly below spec, 50% would be near spec, and 25% would be above, but that seems a little excessive to me, and 64% of statistics are just made up anyway.

I agree statistically speaking that is.

[theDude]

Originally Posted by andrew20195

"Ringers" that end up in magazines are most likely tweaked a bit by the manufacturers, but I think you're referring to regular production cars. In that case, you are correct. Even with tight quality control, there is some variation in tolerances, unavoidable in mass production. It would not be cost effective for the manufacturer to "blueprint" every single engine (unless it is an expensive limited production model with hand-built everything). As a result some cars are faster than others, as you said, by certain tolerances lining up just right.

As Mark Twain paraphrased, "There are lies, damn lies, and statistics"

Yeah, it makes sense that the manufacturer can't, in a mass production scenario, blueprint each engine.

But this makes me wonder if engines produced at the beginning of each MY cycle, have a greater probability of being ringers. My theory is that at the beginning of each MY all the nifty machines responsible for assembly have been effectively 're-tooled', allowing for tighter fits, etc.

Now, I don't think that this means all Bimmers produced at the tail end of a MY are going to be weaker...I'd expect various machine to be re-tooled along the way, as they wear. Of course this is all conjecture...for all I know BMW keeps chuggin along between MYs without significant reset/re-tooling.


Anyone know?

[DCJAX]

Originally Posted by theDude

As Mark Twain paraphrased, "There are lies, damn lies, and statistics"

Yeah, it makes sense that the manufacturer can't, in a mass production scenario, blueprint each engine.

But this makes me wonder if engines produced at the beginning of each MY cycle, have a greater probability of being ringers. My theory is that at the beginning of each MY all the nifty machines responsible for assembly have been effectively 're-tooled', allowing for tighter fits, etc.

Now, I don't think that this means all Bimmers produced at the tail end of a MY are going to be weaker...I'd expect various machine to be re-tooled along the way, as they wear. Of course this is all conjecture...for all I know BMW keeps chuggin along between MYs without significant reset/re-tooling.


Anyone know?

I don't think MY would affect that much, the repair/retool schedule won't follow the calendar that close.

The human factor likely contributes just as much as part's tolerances. Monday after a long weekend etc. Personally I wouldn't want a BMW built during or right after Octoberfest.

[Dinan335i]

How about a link (or at least the title/description you used). Couldn't find it.

Originally Posted by Brisk

i just raced my friend

335i coupe with 3900 miles. AT with sport.. but without track package or oil cooler

me- 335i coupe with 4100 miles AT with sport, WITH track package or oil cooler

beat him by about 2-3 cars by 110 mph..

my guess, my car is just quicker, and his hotter temp robbed some horsepower.


video is on youtube.

[HyperM3]

BMW made a set of ringers out of the e36 M3 and called them LTW's. Basically they tested every engine and took the ones that had the best performance and rebuilt them by hand for tighter tolerances.

There were plenty of better performing engines that were never pulled for LTW's but ended up in the regular lineup. Another reason 95's were a hot year for the M3(aside from being OBDI).

[Bimmer335i07]

Originally Posted by Brisk

yes, i HAD the sstt.. this video was without the SSTT.



-lumi

Wow, 2-3 cars? Damn... Just because you have the oil cooler? Hmmm... I want to see how my e90 goes up against a e92 with an oil cooler. I don't even have the ZSP. And since we both have the Turbo Tuner. I wonder how many car lengths you will beat me by?

[homerunball]

Originally Posted by Revlis

Simple, if a Manufacterer knows that a particular car is heading to a magazine for a day of testing many will "Tweek" said car or bike to give it that little "Oomph" that might be missing otherwise.

It's easy enough with todays software to optimize and tune a particular unit for a magazine. Extra .5lb of boost, etc...

A car that is suspected of being thusly loved on by the OEM is called a "ringer".

Manufactures DO NOT "tweak" cars if those are to be released to journalists. Who told you that? It depends on what kind of car, if its meant to review a production car, then it would be illegal to "tweak" the car in any way. The car must be exactly the same as a production car. They would, however, send "ringers"

Originally Posted by DCJAX

I don't think MY would affect that much, the repair/retool schedule won't follow the calendar that close.

The human factor likely contributes just as much as part's tolerances. Monday after a long weekend etc. Personally I wouldn't want a BMW built during or right after Octoberfest.

You are sopt on. I interfaced with many people on the line when I was in the industry and its mostly workmanship that produces the largest variances. Most machining tolerances are tight enough for an individual part, but tolerance stack up from many many different suppliers make up the variance. Since so many parts are involved, it is not dependant on model year, or production cycles, it is almost totally random.

Engines are "hand picked" on the power bench for CSL's and other lightweights after they are built, NOT part by part before they are built. "Ringers" are an anomoly that arises when all of the parts in the engine are exactly to spec from all those suppliers.

It is a well known fact in the industry that later model years tend to have better reliability due to repetitive assembly methods. During this time, updates to parts, operation envelopes, and complaints from previous models are incorporated.

Originally Posted by andrew20195

"Ringers" that end up in magazines are most likely tweaked a bit by the manufacturers, but I think you're referring to regular production cars. In that case, you are correct. Even with tight quality control, there is some variation in tolerances, unavoidable in mass production. It would not be cost effective for the manufacturer to "blueprint" every single engine (unless it is an expensive limited production model with hand-built everything). As a result some cars are faster than others, as you said, by certain tolerances lining up just right.

I would suspect that the range of power variation would follow some sort of bell curve. I once read that 25% of engines would be significantly below spec, 50% would be near spec, and 25% would be above, but that seems a little excessive to me, and 64% of statistics are just made up anyway.

Yes, you are right. No matter what company, vehicle, or brand, there is always a bell curve. Tighter tolerances make the range in the bell curve a little smaller but its still a bell curve.

[lm1z]

Originally Posted by Bimmer335i07

Wow, 2-3 cars? Damn... Just because you have the oil cooler? Hmmm... I want to see how my e90 goes up against a e92 with an oil cooler. I don't even have the ZSP. And since we both have the Turbo Tuner. I wonder how many car lengths you will beat me by?

all cars produced in march or later now include a second oil cooler and redesigned fuel pump. my car felt significantly faster than a loaner 335i with similar mileage stock for stock.

[Spool]

Break-in procedure

[theDude]

Originally Posted by Spool

Break-in procedure

You mean thrashing the car from day one? Sounds like fun!

[leftcoastman]

Originally Posted by homerunball

Manufactures DO NOT "tweak" cars if those are to be released to journalists. Who told you that? It depends on what kind of car, if its meant to review a production car, then it would be illegal to "tweak" the car in any way. The car must be exactly the same as a production car. They would, however, send "ringers"

What about the Edmunds test that showed the press car calling for more boost than a standard car?

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=117669

Additional boost comes two ways:

1) Different programming (ala PROcede or "ringer" ECU)
2) Free'er flowing exhaust (see boost values with DP)

I doubt there is a law against providing a non-identical press car to reviewers. But I could be wrong.