[DrDomer]

I think V2 will probably be safer than V1.47 long term. I bet even with high HP and torque the engine will run just a cool with probably less chance of detonation. Shiv wanna chime in? Probably the safest Procede tune is a V2 with a slightly detuned map.

[335i/335d?]

But isnt torque killing an engine? V2 and V1.47 is around the same amount of torque right, but v2 has more top end power.

[DrDomer]

Originally Posted by 335i/335d?

But isnt torque killing an engine? V2 and V1.47 is around the same amount of torque right, but v2 has more top end power.

I always thought heat was the enemy. Now if we're talking transmission then torque.

[335i/335d?]

if you use the car for the track, I think heat will definatly be a enemy. Here in the Netherlands the temperatures are low compared to you, and not many people do drag races or track days. Torque will bend the rods

[WilyB]

Originally Posted by RiXst3r

m3 is a v8, and the 335d has different internals, different turbos, different air path, and different transmissions...

I know: I was taking the complete driveline into consideration. Please note that BMW seriously under rate the 335i. Mine stock dynoed at 279 RWHP & 297.7 RWTQ, so the PROcede, and other tuning devices’ gains, are impressive but not as much if you compare them to the real HP/TQ of the stock engine.

and the barthurst cars were running a detuned version of procede...

Are you sure the Bathurst cars were running a detuned version?

[RiXst3r]

Originally Posted by WilyB

I know: I was taking the complete driveline into consideration. Please note that BMW seriously under rate the 335i. Mine stock dynoed at 279 RWHP & 297.7 RWTQ, so the PROcede, and other tuning devices’ gains, are impressive but not as much if you compare them to the real HP/TQ of the stock engine.



Are you sure the Bathurst cars were running a detuned version?

yes, they were limited to manufactor stated stock peak boost, for regulation reasons

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...76&postcount=1

[bnj]

It would be good if Shiv could tune my car. However, it would surely make sense if someone local does that. If Shiv would be travelling around the world, V2.1 would never happen. And tuning is nothing difficult a tuning pro would not be able to do.

[WilyB]

Originally Posted by HyperM3

Thats like modding an audi 1.8 from the stock 170hp to 350hp ...

No, it is not. On my V1.3 335, real life (not BMW brochure) gains were +20% HP and +31% TQ. Design parameters is usually 1.5 the maximum expected stress (+50%).

[bmwzimmer]

Originally Posted by RiXst3r

yes, they were limited to manufactor stated stock peak boost, for regulation reasons

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...76&postcount=1

"It was a base Stg 0 map. v1.3 to be exact. Only change was boost was dropped by a 1psi in the 2500-4000rpm range due to rules regarding max boost. The only other power-related mod on the cars were a full exhaust.
Stock intake. Stock bypass valves. Stock intercooler. Stock fuel pump. Etc,.
The car ran peak of 0.8bar, or 11.8psi. For 12hrs "

Are you sure RiXst3r??

[mesier1111]

Originally Posted by NPDAN

My 1st attempt will be a good friend of mine with a new M5 that has been talking all kinds of shit... I'll get him...

A part of me wants you to win, but since I am looking at a M5 for next year, the other part wants you to get smoked

[Former_Boosted_IS]

Originally Posted by DrDomer

I always thought heat was the enemy. Now if we're talking transmission then torque.

In this instance, heat can be related since it does cause an increase in intake temps. As the intake temps increase, eventually you will be moving into the engine killing detonation problem area. The problem occurs because the intake air gets so hot that when the piston compresses that air pre-ignition or detonation can occur. That is what will destroy your engine and it is the enemy of all boosted cars. If the engine and transmission are strong enough to handle the power, then this all comes down to how safe the tune is. Without dyno's with the A/F ratios, no one can analyze how safe the tune is on this setup.

Does anyone know the intake temps on the v1.47 or v2.0 setups?

[DrDomer]

Originally Posted by Former_Boosted_IS

In this instance, heat can be related since it does cause an increase in intake temps. As the intake temps increase, eventually you will be moving into the engine killing detonation problem area. The problem occurs because the intake air gets so hot that when the piston compresses that air pre-ignition or detonation can occur. That is what will destroy your engine and it is the enemy of all boosted cars. If the engine and transmission are strong enough to handle the power, then this all comes down to how safe the tune is. Without dyno's with the A/F ratios, no one can analyze how safe the tune is on this setup.

Does anyone know the intake temps on the v1.47 or v2.0 setups?

Hence why I thought an intercooler would be a nice addition. Of course, then we have to have a new tune, etc.. etc... The dyno's on V1 look lean to me, but this car run's lean anyway. The problem also is how they measure things during the dyno which can make the AFR's look a little leaner anyway. The other issue we keep skirting is the theory that cylinders 5 and 6 are getting hotter than the rest, so measuring intake temps, etc may not be sufficient to reassure us on overall safety of running higher boost. Overheating is an issue on these cars in stock form, let alone with higher boost, etc. I'm all ears for some education on the subject.

[NPDAN]

Originally Posted by mesier1111

A part of me wants you to win, but since I am looking at a M5 for next year, the other part wants you to get smoked

How about this, I'll only tell you the outcome if I lose. But if you dont hear anything...

[sflgator]

Originally Posted by Mr. 5

I chose not to purchase the V2 because it's not going to solve the downpipe problem. Everytime the downpipe program has been brought up, Shiv keeps ignoring the question. I understand that he can't respond to everybody's questions, but it has been asked by different people and I haven't heard a response with when this is going to happen.

I proved that there is no increase with downpipes with the 1.47 and it looks as though the 2.0 will be the same. I'm sure that the 2.0 will incorporate a downpipe program later on , but until that happens I'm going to search elsewhere.

Just get rid of your DPs and get PROcede v2.0.

[satinghostrider]

Originally Posted by sflgator

Just get rid of your DPs and get PROcede 2.0.

do a search on dre335s post. He has ultimate racing high flow cat downpipes and he registered 30hp/60nm gain. I saw his dyno sheet from Day 1 running procede till now with DP and exhaust. Hes making good gains. I think you may have got something done wrong. Dont think it has anything to do with the procede as these kinda mods gives you gains if installed correctly.

[bnj]

Originally Posted by sflgator

Just get rid of your DPs and get PROcede v2.0.

Sounds suboptimal.

[Former_Boosted_IS]

Originally Posted by DrDomer

Hence why I thought an intercooler would be a nice addition. Of course, then we have to have a new tune, etc.. etc... The dyno's on V1 look lean to me, but this car run's lean anyway. The problem also is how they measure things during the dyno which can make the AFR's look a little leaner anyway. The other issue we keep skirting is the theory that cylinders 5 and 6 are getting hotter than the rest, so measuring intake temps, etc may not be sufficient to reassure us on overall safety of running higher boost. Overheating is an issue on these cars in stock form, let alone with higher boost, etc. I'm all ears for some education on the subject.

An intercooler is already stock on the car. A larger intercooler may not be the solution here because if it is too large it can create an inneffecient system. One would have to look at if the larger intercooler caused greater lag or a loss in boost. These are the classic BPU upgrades that people to do almost every turbo car out there. Things like intercooler, midpipe, downpipe, exhaust, intake piping, etc.

I would not be concerned about the dyno making things leaner. As for cylinder 5 and 6 getting hotter, that sounds like a fuel issue. Is there a fuel rail issue or not enough fuel pressure?

Truthfully, there are too many on this forum that will spend the money without finding out solid facts and that allows the tuners to get away with selling products without actually selling us. When I had my IS300, the tuners could never have sold something just saying this makes more power. They had to provide dyno's, pictures, detailed info, etc. for people to see what they were buying. That this pre-buy thread is 17 pages long and I have yet to see a dyno or detailed info on the setup. Without knowing what A/F is being run, how can anyone on here know if the v2.0 is safe? It always seems a couple of motors must fall before people know what is safe and what is not. I sincerely hope this is not the case though.

Shiv seems to be one of the more knowledgeable on this car. A write-up on safe A/F ratio's and intake temps on this car with the injector setup would be a great sticky. Where is the limit of the stock fuel system, internals, tranny (auto and manual). Look, if we understand the safe A/F here then all we need is a wideband and we can determine if there is a lean condition ever and not worry about popping an engine.

[RiXst3r]

Originally Posted by bmwzimmer

"It was a base Stg 0 map. v1.3 to be exact. Only change was boost was dropped by a 1psi in the 2500-4000rpm range due to rules regarding max boost. The only other power-related mod on the cars were a full exhaust.
Stock intake. Stock bypass valves. Stock intercooler. Stock fuel pump. Etc,.
The car ran peak of 0.8bar, or 11.8psi. For 12hrs "

Are you sure RiXst3r??

Your questioning the fact that I posted a quote from shiv? He said that they were limited to .8bar, which is that manufacturers stated max peak boost (including altitude compensation).

my comment was that it was a detuned procede, not a full on procede... and yes, I am sure... and your post just backs up my statement.

[Thomasz126]

Originally Posted by Former_Boosted_IS

An intercooler is already stock on the car. A larger intercooler may not be the solution here because if it is too large it can create an inneffecient system. One would have to look at if the larger intercooler caused greater lag or a loss in boost. These are the classic BPU upgrades that people to do almost every turbo car out there. Things like intercooler, midpipe, downpipe, exhaust, intake piping, etc.

I would not be concerned about the dyno making things leaner. As for cylinder 5 and 6 getting hotter, that sounds like a fuel issue. Is there a fuel rail issue or not enough fuel pressure?

Truthfully, there are too many on this forum that will spend the money without finding out solid facts and that allows the tuners to get away with selling products without actually selling us. When I had my IS300, the tuners could never have sold something just saying this makes more power. They had to provide dyno's, pictures, detailed info, etc. for people to see what they were buying. That this pre-buy thread is 17 pages long and I have yet to see a dyno or detailed info on the setup. Without knowing what A/F is being run, how can anyone on here know if the v2.0 is safe? It always seems a couple of motors must fall before people know what is safe and what is not. I sincerely hope this is not the case though.

Shiv seems to be one of the more knowledgeable on this car. A write-up on safe A/F ratio's and intake temps on this car with the injector setup would be a great sticky. Where is the limit of the stock fuel system, internals, tranny (auto and manual). Look, if we understand the safe A/F here then all we need is a wideband and we can determine if there is a lean condition ever and not worry about popping an engine.

You my friend need to do some

[Former_Boosted_IS]

Originally Posted by Thomasz126

You my friend need to do some

I have read through the forums. I have used the search feature as best as I could. The answers were all muddy. I read him saying 85%-95% of the v2.0 is ok on 93 octane, but that is a wide margin. I owned a 500+ rwhp Lexus
IS300 and was tired of always worrying about something breaking. I just want to know what we can do safely without breaking something like the rings, landings, pistons, rods, tranny, rear end, etc. If you know the concrete answers, can you please post me a link? Wouldn't this make a good sticky since everyone on the forum is probably interested in it.

[zenmaster]

Originally Posted by Former_Boosted_IS

I just want to know what we can do safely without breaking something like the rings, landings, pistons, rods, tranny, rear end, etc. If you know the concrete answers, can you please post me a link? Wouldn't this make a good sticky since everyone on the forum is probably interested in it.

You're not going to get this kind of information until we start breaking things - because all but the largest shops simply can't afford to stress test. And these large shops will not reveal their test data.

Alpina switched out the stock pistons to Mahle with their B3. But I think this was done to accomodate their desired compression ratio and not necessarily for the added strength.

Comments were made from Steven Dinan's and Federico L. Pavoncelli (RDsport) regarding the engine block's water flow design causing cylinders 5 & 6 to over heat at higher boost. My guess is that BMW will eventually make a new version of the N54 to addresses this problem (and may add valvetronic).

The 335's 6MT manual transmission is apparently the same one used in the M5 and M6 (USA only apparently). So I think we're good for 400+ rwhp. The rear-ends are different however.

N54 engine block is aluminum with cast iron cylinder liners. Whereas the N52 has an aluminum-silicon cylinder casting inside its magnesium crankcase, the N54 has cast-iron sleeves inside its aluminum crankcase. This iron plus the turbos account for the weight difference between N54 and N52: N54 weighs 419lb; the N52 357lb.

The N54 crankshaft is forged steel as opposed to cast iron on the N52.

The N54 camshaft is solid as opposed to hollow on the N52.

The N54 connecting rods are thicker than N52.

N54 turbos are also custom and use a special "austenitic steel with a high proportion of nickel to accommodate the high exhaust temperatures in the turbochargers, according to Udo Lindner, BMW Project Leader, 3 Series Powertrain. The steel, used in the spinning wheel, can accommodate temperatures up to 1050˚C (1920˚F). Lindner noted that BMW worked with Mitsubishi Heavy Industries to develop the turbochargers."

[Former_Boosted_IS]

Originally Posted by zenmaster

You're not going to get this kind of information until we start breaking things - because all but the largest shops simply can't afford to stress test. And these large shops will not reveal their test data.

Alpina switched out the stock pistons to Mahle with their B3. But I think this was done to accomodate their desired compression ratio and not necessarily for the added strength.

Comments were made from Steven Dinan's and Federico L. Pavoncelli (RDsport) regarding the engine block's water flow design causing cylinders 5 & 6 to over heat at higher boost. My guess is that BMW will eventually make a new version of the N54 to addresses this problem (and may add valvetronic).

The 335's 6MT manual transmission is apparently the same one used in the M5 and M6 (USA only apparently). So I think we're good for 400+ rwhp. The rear-ends are different however.

N54 engine block is aluminum with cast iron cylinder liners. Whereas the N52 has an aluminum-silicon cylinder casting inside its magnesium crankcase, the N54 has cast-iron sleeves inside its aluminum crankcase. This iron plus the turbos account for the weight difference between N54 and N52: N54 weighs 419lb; the N52 357lb.

The N54 crankshaft is forged steel as opposed to cast iron on the N52.

The N54 camshaft is solid as opposed to hollow on the N52.

The N54 connecting rods are thicker than N52.

N54 turbos are also custom and use a special "austenitic steel with a high proportion of nickel to accommodate the high exhaust temperatures in the turbochargers, according to Udo Lindner, BMW Project Leader, 3 Series Powertrain. The steel, used in the spinning wheel, can accommodate temperatures up to 1050˚C (1920˚F). Lindner noted that BMW worked with Mitsubishi Heavy Industries to develop the turbochargers."

Good info there. Thanks.