[tcw]

I have recently been having issues with a delta between banks 1 and 2 for AFR and fuel trim. The richer bank has a higher fuel trim, so the DME is intentionally making it richer. Looking at old logs, this started after I replaced both O2 sensors. Talking to Shiv he thought it was either long term adaptations causing it or old injectors having a bad seal (this was eliminated after a compression test [one bank was replaced under warranty 20k miles ago.])

So today I went ahead and cleared lambda adaptations with Inpa. No luck. So I then reset ALL adaptations with Inpa. After the first restart I got a DSC error and 500-1500rpm repeatedly (learning TPS). I restarted it & it idled fine, but AFR was constant(not reading). I restarted again and the AFR's were the same for ~10 seconds then the delta developed again. With the Daten files loaded I couldn't read my injectors so I just updated my Daten. Now there are additional adaptations listed that I will reset those tomorrow and see if it makes a difference.

Hopefully someone will have some insight into what may be causing this... I could try replacing the O2's again or the injectors, but hopefully it can be fixed via INPA.

Also note, it runs fine like this. It just limits my fueling trim window because one is higher and I don't want the other to go negative. Also it annoys me knowing it's there.

OLD AFR:







NEW AFR:






Compression Test:
Cyl | PSI
1 | 166
2 | 179*
3 | 173
4 | 176*
5 | 169*
6 | 174
*newer injectors

[acdHQK713K]

Welcome to my world

Not quite the same but similar. AFR issues, no codes, trims (STFT and LTFT) all jacked up and different between the two banks. Not a tune issue as it will do it on the stock tune. Reset all adaptations in INPA with no improvement.
(Idle Comparison, Knock, Lambda Probe, Intake Pipe, DKP - Throttle, Lambda Control, EGR, Load Control, Nox-Sensor, Secondary Air, Fuel Control Valve, Octane Number, Variants, VVT, VANOS, Combustion Controller, Cylinder Sync for EOL-Check, Rough Running Cyl Sync, Lambda Phaseshift, Injector Energy Comparison)

All 6 of my injectors were replaced, among other things, and this issue started. Made some improvement this week and it doesn't seem to lean out too much but my trims are way different between the two banks. I have no idea what the issue is

[tcw]

Originally Posted by Stangorang

Welcome to my world

Not quite the same but similar. AFR issues, no codes, trims (STFT and LTFT) all jacked up and different between the two banks. Not a tune issue as it will do it on the stock tune. Reset all adaptations in INPA with no improvement.
(Idle Comparison, Knock, Lambda Probe, Intake Pipe, DKP - Throttle, Lambda Control, EGR, Load Control, Nox-Sensor, Secondary Air, Fuel Control Valve, Octane Number, Variants, VVT, VANOS, Combustion Controller, Cylinder Sync for EOL-Check, Rough Running Cyl Sync, Lambda Phaseshift, Injector Energy Comparison)

All 6 of my injectors were replaced, among other things, and this issue started. Made some improvement this week and it doesn't seem to lean out too much but my trims are way different between the two banks. I have no idea what the issue is

Hah, at least your AFR's seem to be more similar...

Have you tried to have the dealer clear the adaptations? Or update the DME? They can't hook up to mine because of my CIC retrofit (their system says replace CCC before proceeding [because it is missing].)

[Schnitzel]

Are you guys using the BMS DP fix? I have read that this one can cause different AFRs between bank 1 and 2.

[Schnitzel]

Originally Posted by tcw

Hah, at least your AFR's seem to be more similar...

They can't hook up to mine because of my CIC retrofit (their system says replace CCC before proceeding [because it is missing].)

BMW cannot update your system since they always update all control devices. I had the same problem but fortunately there are some guys who can update one control device, e.g. your DME, too. That's even possible via internet with a program such as teamviewer. You only need a suitable K+DCAN cable.

[tcw]

Originally Posted by Schnitzel

Are you guys using the BMS DP fix? I have read that this one can cause different AFRs between bank 1 and 2.

No I am not, but the two rear o2 sensors are jumped in the procede harness (single turbo specific) so this may have something to do with it.

[tcw]

Originally Posted by Schnitzel

BMW cannot update your system since they always update all control devices. I had the same problem but fortunately there are some guys who can update one control device, e.g. your DME, too. That's even possible via internet with a program such as teamviewer. You only need a suitable K+DCAN cable.

I can code well enough, but the only programming I know of with the DCAN cable takes ~12 hours and may brick the DME if d/c or battery voltage drops. Some shops have autologic and that can program separate modules, but the only shop with it near me if to afraid to use it for programming. I tried getting them to update my CIC so it would recognize my combox. I ended up having to mail the CIC to bimmerretrofit and they updated the software on it.

[tcw]

Got it fixed! I reset all the adaptations again with vasillov's(sp) daten files. Afterwards the idle afrs were practically one. On a 3rd gear pull fuel trims were within a couple percent of one another. Logs coming tonight.

[KaiserN54]

Originally Posted by tcw

I reset all the adaptations again with vasillov's(sp) daten files.

WTF does that mean? I have a similar problem and am curious as to what exactly you did to fix it.

[tcw]

Originally Posted by KaiserN54

WTF does that mean? I have a similar problem and am curious as to what exactly you did to fix it.

Here you go:
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=645844

When he hits F9 to go to "system diagnosen", you instead hit F8 for "Adaptive Variables" (or something like that) and then reset them all.




Fixed Idle:


Fixed Standing Rev:


Fixed Pull:


Fixed Pull All:


Throttle test after cleared adaptations:

[KaiserN54]

Originally Posted by tcw

When he hits F9 to go to "system diagnosen", you instead hit F8 for "Adaptive Variables" (or something like that) and then reset them all.

Is it possible to reset the injectors either (1) through procede or (2) by going to the dealer? I want to save my $99.00 an the INPA adapter if I possibly can. My car hasn't had the CIC thing or whatnot done so I assume the dealer can still do the reset, no?

[acdHQK713K]

Originally Posted by KaiserN54

Is it possible to reset the injectors either (1) through procede or (2) by going to the dealer? I want to save my $99.00 an the INPA adapter if I possibly can. My car hasn't had the CIC thing or whatnot done so I assume the dealer can still do the reset, no?

You need INPA. Once it is all setup it is extremely easy. But there is no specific "injector adaptation" reset. You can recode them but there would be no reason to do so unless you replaced them.

[KaiserN54]

Originally Posted by Stangorang

You need INPA. Once it is all setup it is extremely easy. But there is no specific "injector adaptation" reset. You can recode them but there would be no reason to do so unless you replaced them.

Well, my dealer replaced the bank 2 injectors last fall. I'm wondering if I go in and tell them there is a gap or delta in my fuel trims, if they would give me a hard time about recoding them.(they know I am tuned and are friendly about it). I honestly think- at least by looking at what I have been able to in a short amount of time- that this stuff goes way over my head. Nonetheless, I have new precat 02 sensors, and the injectors are relatively new, so I want to try the easiest (and cheapest) way to fix it. I just put a s#!-ton of money into my car fixing things (A/C Condenser, Oil Filter Gasket, Clutch and Flywheel) and can't justify any more for a while.

[joec500]

I had a similar issue when Shiv was Tuning my car last week (New E85 Maps). I had 3 injectors from a previously replacement about 10k miles ago and ones I replaced last month. I had a large deviation in trims from Bank 1 and Bank 2. I actually had 3 new injectors from the full set I bought last month. Once I had 6 injectors from the same batch installed, fuel trims were nice and even. So it could be slight tolerances or wearing issues causing the imbalance. These injectors are super sensitive.

[acdHQK713K]

Originally Posted by joec500

I had a similar issue when Shiv was Tuning my car last week (New E85 Maps). I had 3 injectors from a previously replacement about 10k miles ago and ones I replaced last month. I had a large deviation in trims from Bank 1 and Bank 2. I actually had 3 new injectors from the full set I bought last month. Once I had 6 injectors from the same batch installed, fuel trims were nice and even. So it could be slight tolerances or wearing issues causing the imbalance. These injectors are super sensitive.

Just had all 6 replaced at once. My STFTs differ by around 10% at WOT and the LTFTs differ by around 5% at idle. Not sure why. All adaptations reset too.

[tcw]

Originally Posted by KaiserN54

Is it possible to reset the injectors either (1) through procede or (2) by going to the dealer? I want to save my $99.00 an the INPA adapter if I possibly can. My car hasn't had the CIC thing or whatnot done so I assume the dealer can still do the reset, no?

You can reset some adaptations through Procede. For me this was not sufficient and I had to use INPA. INPA is the software the dealer uses for diagnosis (WinKFP for programming and NCS for coding), so they can do this as well. I would just ask them to reset all adaptations (I am not sure which one specifically as I reset them all at once).

Originally Posted by Stangorang

Just had all 6 replaced at once. My STFTs differ by around 10% at WOT and the LTFTs differ by around 5% at idle. Not sure why. All adaptations reset too.

Ensure you are using the same daten files as I did. I initially reset all adaptations with other daten files I had for when I did my coding for the CIC retrofit. After I re-reset the adaptations with the linked daten files (I replaced the INPA, EDIABUS, NCS folders with the ones in the zip file) it solved my problem.

[Wedge1967]

If anyone needs help with setting up INPA, EDIABUS, NCS.... Let me know. 503-679-3538

[acdHQK713K]

Originally Posted by tcw

You can reset some adaptations through Procede. For me this was not sufficient and I had to use INPA. INPA is the software the dealer uses for diagnosis (WinKFP for programming and NCS for coding), so they can do this as well. I would just ask them to reset all adaptations (I am not sure which one specifically as I reset them all at once).


Ensure you are using the same daten files as I did. I initially reset all adaptations with other daten files I had for when I did my coding for the CIC retrofit. After I re-reset the adaptations with the linked daten files (I replaced the INPA, EDIABUS, NCS folders with the ones in the zip file) it solved my problem.

I used the e89 Sp-Daten v48 files. Is that what you used?

[acdHQK713K]

Originally Posted by Wedge1967

If anyone needs help with setting up INPA, EDIABUS, NCS.... Let me know. 503-679-3538

Are you running v49 these days? Noticed anything different between v48? I'm reluctant to touch anting after you set it all up and got it working. Haven't touched it since and so far its been a real asset in diagnosing this multi-month long headache I've had with my car. I'm scared if I update it won't work again.

[tcw]

Originally Posted by Stangorang

I used the e89 Sp-Daten v48 files. Is that what you used?

IIRC the one in the Injector coding DIY (linked above) are v45. Although I thought the ones I already had were newer (I updated to the latest when trying to overcome some problems with the CIC retrofit.) But the menu's were a lot different. There were more adaptation values (and they were in english this time) with the linked daten files. Also with the ones I tried originally, I was not able to read my injector vales (the menu option was missing under "system diagnosen".)

[tcw]

Originally Posted by Stangorang

Are you running v49 these days? Noticed anything different between v48? I'm reluctant to touch anting after you set it all up and got it working. Haven't touched it since and so far its been a real asset in diagnosing this multi-month long headache I've had with my car. I'm scared if I update it won't work again.

FYI I felt the same way. So I moved my NCS, EDIABUS, INPA folders into a folder on the desktop and then copied the ones in the DIY to my C:/.

[Wedge1967]

Originally Posted by Stangorang

Are you running v49 these days? Noticed anything different between v48? I'm reluctant to touch anting after you set it all up and got it working. Haven't touched it since and so far its been a real asset in diagnosing this multi-month long headache I've had with my car. I'm scared if I update it won't work again.

I didn't do a file comp, but if you download the latest version and use BMW Coding Tool to update SP-Daten and WinKFP, it should only update the files that have changed or were added. 99.9% of the time it just adds new files.