[shadow191]

But a stock transmission will survive big power for a long time if you never launch it. So what's the point of buying a "bulletproof" transmission from Level10 if you're not going to launch hard?

Level10 has been around for a long time and so have horror stories about Level10. Lots of people say they have good experiences with them, but a lot of people have terrible experiences as well. It seems as if domestic guys have better success stories since upgraded components are more readily available. For some cars, Level10 is rumoured to just rebuild with OEM parts and slap on a higher stall convertor and shift kit. The shift kit gives quicker shifts and the high stall convertor helps with launches so the owners think the entire thing is upgraded. If they don't go to the strip every day, they'll never know.

But I remember a long time ago I considered a Level10 transmission for my Maxima. Then someone realized that there weren't actually upgraded components available for that particular tranmission. Level10 swore they used upgraded components, but the component manufacturer confirmed that they did not make a kit for our application. That sort of told me everything I needed to know about them.

Originally Posted by Killerfish2012

There is a big difference between Enrita, and those other two guys. Enrita is an HPDE/roll event only dude. Lostmarine and Sikh, go from a dig at the strip. With the amount of torque a low 11sec/ 10sec N54 produces, there is absolutely no torque converter that can hold up long term to that kind of abuse.

[Killerfish2012]

Originally Posted by shadow191

But a stock transmission will survive big power for a long time if you never launch it. So what's the point of buying a "bulletproof" transmission from Level10 if you're not going to launch hard?.

The stock transmission will burn out it's 3rd gear clutch packs long before the level 10's, since you only plan on launching from a third gear roll with your stock 6AT.

Originally Posted by shadow191

[B]Level10 has been around for a long time and so have horror stories about Level10. Lots of people say they have good experiences with them, but a lot of people have terrible experiences as well. It seems as if domestic guys have better success stories since upgraded components are more readily available. For some cars, Level10 is rumoured to just rebuild with OEM parts and slap on a higher stall convertor and shift kit. The shift kit gives quicker shifts and the high stall convertor helps with launches so the owners think the entire thing is upgraded. If they don't go to the strip every day, they'll never know.

But I remember a long time ago I considered a Level10 transmission for my Maxima. Then someone realized that there weren't actually upgraded components available for that particular tranmission. Level10 swore they used upgraded components, but the component manufacturer confirmed that they did not make a kit for our application. That sort of told me everything I needed to know about them.

I can't speak for level 10, or any company for that matter, even BMW which doesn't even want you to ever change your transmission fluid, let alone use better stuff than that weak OEM fluid. However, I can say that other guys with these ZF6hp trannies such as the G37 guys, and the hyundai genesis guys are running Level 10 at the track without any issues.

[Killerfish2012]

Originally Posted by 135Pats

Enrita routinely does full mile roll events that run through all gears. I’d argue a 3-4-5-6 pull puts as much heat/stress on a trans as full bore launches from a dig. Halfshafts can be addressed via hardware, I wouldn’t argue against that..

Enrita has upgraded clutch packs for his gear changes, via level 10. The clutch packs get pretty hot, yes. Probably up to 450F, especially if you continuously upshift and downshift on a dyno. On a full launch brake torquing, the torque converter will warp from the mechanical stress generated. It's the greater of two evils.

Originally Posted by 135Pats

I guess my point is this: There is absolutely demand in this community for a serious 6AT fix. There is nothing special about the 6hp box in our cars. There is no doubt in my mind lvl10 is mechanically capable of building a strong enough transmission to handle ST boost curves and whatnot.
So demand and willingness to pay is there, and from a hardware standpoint, the parts are there. Then why is there no real product that is being adopted by the dozens of people who would happily pony up for a good solution? The answer in my mind is because we have no ability to control the software. That’s just my intuition; I know we don’t see eye to eye on this.

I would argue that Demand isn't there. There are not that many guys over 425whp in the 6AT. I know cobb was looking into doing a trans flash for us, as they already have one for the Nissan GTR. However, they just didn't see a need/demand for it, as they have no supporting OTS maps for greater wheel HP than their race gas map gives which is ~415whp, well within the capability of the stock 6AT from a roll.

[MrClean514]

Originally Posted by Killerfish2012

There is a big difference between Enrita, and those other two guys. Enrita is an HPDE/roll event only dude. Lostmarine and Sikh, go from a dig at the strip. With the amount of torque a low 11sec/ 10sec N54 produces, there is absolutely no torque converter that can hold up long term to that kind of abuse.

It appears a swap would be the prime solution. 4L80 comes to mind. However, no one in their right mind would want to swap a 4spd into a car that only puts down 500-600hp. If we were looking at 800+hp and strictly running straight-line scenarios, then that would be better suited.

Soooooo basically everything I just said brings us back to square 1 of....we're screwed.

[Killerfish2012]

Originally Posted by MrClean514

It appears a swap would be the prime solution. 4L80 comes to mind. However, no one in their right mind would want to swap a 4spd into a car that only puts down 500-600hp. If we were looking at 800+hp and strictly running straight-line scenarios, then that would be better suited.

Soooooo basically everything I just said brings us back to square 1 of....we're screwed.

We've all brain stormed solutions in the past. The ideal fix is to simply use another ZF6hp trans with a higher maximum input torque rating that will fit. Like the one in the 335Dissel, or the 5 series. You can swap the trans all you want but at the end of the day, even a dealership can't program it to work on our cars.

[135Pats]

Originally Posted by Killerfish2012

We've all brain stormed solutions in the past. The ideal fix is to simply use another ZF6hp trans with a higher maximum input torque rating that will fit. Like the one in the 335Dissel, or the 5 series. You can swap the trans all you want but at the end of the day, even a dealership can't program it to work on our cars.

An outright swap would be nutty in terms of getting it to communicate with the DME. Any potential solution has to be in the form of gaining access to the MCM + hardware upgrades to the existing tranny (clutch packs, high stall converter, on and on).

Demand may not be saturated in terms of number of customers, but in terms of folks who would shell out serious $$, it’s there. Lvl10 is a boutique company; even in a “high” demand market (how many TT VQs and strong FRS’ are out there? Can’t be that many more than 500whp N54s) it’s not like they’re pumping out dozens of builds a day. So IMO if they could build a successful box for us, they would have done it by now.

I’m pulling for them don’t get me wrong. I just don’t see how we get anywhere serious without full access to the MCM and TCU.

[Killerfish2012]

Originally Posted by 135Pats

I’m pulling for them don’t get me wrong. I just don’t see how we get anywhere serious without full access to the MCM and TCU.

If cobb could do this for the GTR guys, and promised to look into it for us, then it can be done. Maybe the Open source community, aka Vishnu, can spend some time hacking our transmission software.

[135Pats]

Originally Posted by Killerfish2012

If cobb could do this for the GTR guys, and promised to look into it for us, then it can be done. Maybe the Open source community, aka Vishnu, can spend some time hacking our transmission software.

I hope you’re right. Now in that instance, it will require $$$. Some very smart and patient folks will have to dive into the software. I doubt Cobb will, they have their hands full with N55 ROMs as it is.

The various “open” writing programs haven’t accomplished much yet IMO, but as a community we have only ourselves to blame. I spend a lot of time complaining about the 6AT issues, not much time doing anything about it

[Killerfish2012]

Originally Posted by 135Pats

The various “open” writing programs haven’t accomplished much yet IMO, but as a community we have only ourselves to blame. I spend a lot of time complaining about the 6AT issues, not much time doing anything about it

I used to press Cobb about this. They kept saying they would look into it when they had some time. I haven't asked them in a long time, but if enough of us bother them, I'm pretty sure we'd get something. At the very least it would mean a small boost in sales of the AP.

[135Pats]

Originally Posted by Killerfish2012

I used to press Cobb about this. They kept saying they would look into it when they had some time. I haven't asked them in a long time, but if enough of us bother them, I'm pretty sure we'd get something. At the very least it would mean a small boost in sales of the AP.

I'll bother them

If the solution was Cobb exclusive, they'd absolutely dominate the 6AT market for N54 guys. A flash only solution that simultaneously addressed tranny software would be incredible.